Unable to retrieve animal due to private land and punching tag

[Deleted member 28227]

That's a stretch. He didn't say "Let me go get my elk or I'm going to throw your name on Instagram for the world to berate you." I don't think you can be charged with extortion for telling people about a quality elk hunting area.....

Serious question... Does literally no one in this country understand what extortion is?

If you don't [blank] then I will or wont [blank] is the dictionary definition of extortion.

Since the landowner doesn't own the elk spot it's not criminal, for instance if he had said let me get that elk or I'll set your field on fire... but he is still making a threat of an action he will take that will do harm to something the landowner values in exchange for what he wants.

 

[Losing_Sanity]

Serious question... Does literally no one in this country understand what extortion is?

If you don't [blank] then I will or wont [blank] is the dictionary definition of extortion.

Sounded more like a negotiation to me... Whats any different than saying, I'll pay you X number of dollars if you let me enter your land? Or the land owner saying, pay me X number of dollars and I'll let you on my land?

 

[Carnage2011]

Serious question... Does literally no one in this country understand what extortion is?

If you don't [blank] then I will or wont [blank] is the dictionary definition of extortion.

Since the landowner doesn't own the elk spot it's not criminal, for instance if he had said let me get that elk or I'll set your field on fire... but he is still making a threat of an action he will take that will do harm to something the landowner values in exchange for what he wants.

I know what extortion is.

He didn't say....If you don't (blank) then I will (blank).

He said "After this experience I'm considering moving on from this spot next year so I'm probably going to post some photos on my social media and tag the location."

I'm not saying that's his exact quote, but he never used any threatening language. i.e. If you don't....then i will....

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I guess give the whole impeachment fiasco this kinda shit really shouldn't surprise me...

If you tell/imply/do the little winky thing that you will do something to damage something that another person values in order to get something you value that is extortion.

"Pretty nice elk hunting spot, shame if something should happen to it" is extortion, it's implied damage, if both parties understand their is a threat being made it's extortion. The landowner changed his tune because of the implied threat of damage to his spot, he understood a threat was being made.

@Losing_Sanity paying someone is totally different. That would be a trespass fee, both parties get something they want.

Let's you and I are drinking beers in your garage and I say that I'm doing a home improvement project. I see that you have a saw that I need for my project.

Senario 1:
Me: "Can I borrow your saw?
You: "Nope"
Me: 'l'll give you $20?
You : "Fine"

Senario 2:
Me: "Can I borrow your saw"
You: "Nope"
Me: "I'll post on instagram you cheated on your wife"
You: "Fine"


See the difference.

The whole point being, there are more ethical ways of getting what you want.

 

[Losing_Sanity]

I guess give the whole impeachment fiasco this kinda shit really shouldn't surprise me...

If you tell/imply/do the little winky thing that you will do something to damage something that another person values in order to get something you value that is extortion.

"Pretty nice elk hunting spot, shame if something should happen to it" is extortion, it's implied damage, if both parties understand their is a threat being made it's extortion. The landowner changed his tune because of the implied threat of damage to his spot, he understood a threat was being made.

@Losing_Sanity paying someone is totally different. That would be a trespass fee, both parties get something they want.

Let's you and I are drinking beers in your garage and I say that I'm doing a home improvement project. I see that you have a saw that I need for my project.

Senario 1:
Me: "Can I borrow your saw?
You: "Nope"
Me: 'l'll give you $20?
You : "Fine"

Senario 2:
Me: "Can I borrow your saw"
You: "Nope"
Me: "I'll post on instagram you cheated on your wife"
You: "Fine"


See the difference.

The whole point being, there are more ethical ways of getting what you want.

Yup! Scenario 2 is slanderous unless true...

Scenario 1:
Me: "I'm going to have to tell all my friends on social media what a great spot this is".
You: "If you don't I'll let you get your animal".
Me: "Okay, sounds like a deal".
You : "Fine, go get your animal".

Could go either way.

Both people got something... Hunter got his game and land owner got to keep his spot private. I may have said, "okay, thanks for your time". Then say, "I guess I'll let everyone know where this is so they don't make the same mistake". Same outcome. If he would not let me get my game, I would certainly tell as many people as I can that the guy wouldn't let me and I may even impose my interpretation of my feelings for the guy.

Still, sounded like negotiations too me (has nothing to do with the impeachment fiasco), but I suppose we would have to have been there to know for sure.

P.S. I'd let you use my saw without charging you. I'd even give the gas and oil I have.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I understand that. I'm calling it wanton waste on the hunters part to leave an animal. I'm looking at as you're committing a crime either way...

It's not wanton waste on the hunter's part because he/she has no legal means of retrieving the animal.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I know what extortion is.

He didn't say....If you don't (blank) then I will (blank).

He said "After this experience I'm considering moving on from this spot next year so I'm probably going to post some photos on my social media and tag the location."

I'm not saying that's his exact quote, but he never used any threatening language. i.e. If you don't....then i will....

Having been in a similar situation, I don't necessarily blame your buddy for what he did. That said, let's call a spade a spade. Coercion and extortion don't require a directly stated threat. In this case, it would certainly appear to me that one was implied.

 

[Carnage2011]

Having been in a similar situation, I don't necessarily blame your buddy for what he did. That said, let's call a spade a spade. Coercion and extortion don't require a directly stated threat. In this case, it would certainly appear to me that one was implied.

I agree. However, I think that would be a really tough one to prosecute.

 

[antlerradar]

How is reviling a honey hole on the internet a threat to the near by landowner? Is a landowner harmed by over hunting on near by public? I don't think we want to go down that road.

 

[Nameless Range]

Last year a friend of mine shot a giant bull about 800 yards from a chunk of private during bow season. His shot wasn’t great and the bull worked into the private overnight and died. In the morning he asked the landowner if he could retrieve it and was told no. This spot is a pretty solid little secret that has produced a big bull for him 4 years in a row, and the locals do not want people to find out. My friend explained to him that he has a really solid following on social media and he’d hate to put the area on blast, but he would do it if necessary. The landowner changed his tune....and helped load the bull with his hydrabed.

On a side note, I think it is quite silly that blackmail/extortion of this type would be illegal, but flat out gossiping about a place is not. A interesting philosophical argument can be made that the gossiper, though entirely within legal bounds, is a worse agent, for he/she whom the gossip would affect isn't even being given a chance by the gossiper.

Even those who study law will tell you that where negotiation becomes extortion is a slippery slope and varies from state to state. For example, one lawyer's letter of demand in on one state could be extortion in another. No doubt this was extortion, but a fair trade IMO and one I would have little heartache over.

 

[NR_Hunter]

Legal or not think it’s absolutely hilarious he was able to twist the land owners arm with social media exposure to get the land owner to do the right thing, at least in my opinion. I’m obviously extremely biased to side with the hunter in this situation tho.

I can easily see a land owner being a cry baby over what they consider “their” deer or elk getting shot and think they’ll be getting revenge on some level by not letting the hunter retrieve the animal.

 

[Carnage2011]

On a side note, I think it is quite silly that blackmail/extortion of this type would be illegal, but flat out gossiping about a place is not. A interesting philosophical argument can be made that the gossiper, though entirely within legal bounds, is a worse agent, for he/she whom the gossip would affect isn't even being given a chance by the gossiper.

Even those who study law will tell you that where negotiation becomes extortion is a slippery slope and varies from state to state. For example, one lawyer's letter of demand in on one state could be extortion in another. No doubt this was extortion, but a fair trade IMO and one I would have little heartache over.

I’d say that’s a fair point for sure. I think the biggest part comes down to the moral/ethical side. In the heat of the moment do you let an elk rot or try and leverage?

 

[MTGomer]

Serious question... Does literally no one in this country understand what extortion is?

If you don't [blank] then I will or wont [blank] is the dictionary definition of extortion.

Since the landowner doesn't own the elk spot it's not criminal, for instance if he had said let me get that elk or I'll set your field on fire... but he is still making a threat of an action he will take that will do harm to something the landowner values in exchange for what he wants.

A team is only as good as it’s leader...

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Legal or not think it’s absolutely hilarious he was able to twist the land owners arm with social media exposure to get the land owner to do the right thing, at least in my opinion. I’m obviously extremely biased to side with the hunter in this situation tho.

I can easily see a land owner being a cry baby over what they consider “their” deer or elk getting shot and think they’ll be getting revenge on some level by not letting the hunter retrieve the animal.

As a society we are pretty terrible at putting ourselves in the other persons shoes.

Sure there are some landowners that lock up public lands to create their own little honey holes, there are also lots of landowners that are just tired of people trespassing, driving on the roads when they're wet, leaving trash, recklessly shooting, leaving gates open, etc etc. At some point they just have enough and don't want to incentivize people taking risky shots and thinking they can just trespass when it doesn't pan out.

@Carnage2011 it's amazing how far you can get with some contrition and a respectful attitude. I've never had a problem getting on private land and I've never "leveraged" anyone. One time a landowner let me on his property one and he actually helped me pack out the animal, on the way out we started talking to me about how that coming weekend was his anniversary and he was going to take his wife out to this nice restaurant in town. On the way out I stopped by that restaurant, talked to the manager and paid for the guys upcoming dinner. Never went back to that spot, but I would guess the next guy to do something stupid will have an easier time getting his critter of that guys property.

 

[Carnage2011]

As a society we are pretty terrible at putting ourselves in the other persons shoes.

Sure there are some landowners that lock up public lands to create their own little honey holes, there are also lots of landowners that are just tired of people trespassing, driving on the roads when they're wet, leaving trash, recklessly shooting, leaving gates open, etc etc. At some point they just have enough and don't want to incentivize people taking risky shots and thinking they can just trespass when it doesn't pan out.

@Carnage2011 it's amazing how far you can get with some contrition and a respectful attitude. I've never had a problem getting on private land and I've never "leveraged" anyone. One time a landowner let me on his property one and he actually helped me pack out the animal, on the way out we started talking to me about how that coming weekend was his anniversary and he was going to take his wife out to this nice restaurant in town. On the way out I stopped by that restaurant, talked to the manager and paid for the guys upcoming dinner. Never went back to that spot, but I would guess the next guy to do something stupid will have an easier time getting his critter of that guys property.

I’ve never been in this situation. I prefer to get permission for retrieval prior to hunting. I just gave an example of a situation I knew of. I’m not saying how’d I’d respond in this exact situation. It’s a tough spot to be in.

 

[antelopedundee]

I’d say that’s a fair point for sure. I think the biggest part comes down to the moral/ethical side. In the heat of the moment do you let an elk rot or try and leverage?

How many would finish off a badly wounded critter even if they were refused access to retrieve it?

 

[Mallardsx2]

ONce again Common sense would prevail.