Ukraine / Russia

KB_ said:
You think government or military officials really believe Ukraine destroyed a pipeline that sends fuel to its potentially allies? I mean I wouldn't be surprised if our admin thought that.

I just get skeptical hippo eyes when the first thing I see on google news is Ukraine rebels destroyed pipeline. Come on, why would they do that. If they did, how dumb. I have to be missing something obvious, this is really looking like we are driving ourselves into a wall on purpose.
Click to expand...
I agree. The pipeline was in the Baltic Sea, so the thought that Ukraine did it is ridiculous, but Russia blamed the US and NATO allies. Basically what the person said is it was simply floating the idea of doing something and see how the world would react when they blamed the US. It would also make no sense for Ukraine to set off a dirty bomb in Kiev, but if Russia did it, they would just say Ukraine planted it just so they could put the blame on Russia. Everyone gets its information from the web/podcasts today, so it is easy to create stories to shift views.
The Brookings Institute has tracked how the information in Nord Stream spread post-event and the tilt in the narrative. It seems mostly traceable to the political divisions in US. Regardless of how ridiculous the news to some of us, a lot of people really attach to the idea of conspiracies.

www.brookings.edu

U.S. podcasters spread Kremlin narratives on Nord Stream sabotage | Brookings

Popular American podcasters helped spread the narrative that the United States was responsible for explosions targeting gas pipelines in the Baltic Sea.
www.brookings.edu www.brookings.edu

 
SAJ-99 said:
I agree. The pipeline was in the Baltic Sea, so the thought that Ukraine did it is ridiculous, but Russia blamed the US and NATO allies. Basically what the person said is it was simply floating the idea of doing something and see how the world would react when they blamed the US. It would also make no sense for Ukraine to set off a dirty bomb in Kiev, but if Russia did it, they would just say Ukraine planted it just so they could put the blame on Russia. Everyone gets its information from the web/podcasts today, so it is easy to create stories to shift views.
The Brookings Institute has tracked how the information in Nord Stream spread post-event and the tilt in the narrative. It seems mostly traceable to the political divisions in US. Regardless of how ridiculous the news to some of us, a lot of people really attach to the idea of conspiracies.

www.brookings.edu

U.S. podcasters spread Kremlin narratives on Nord Stream sabotage | Brookings

Popular American podcasters helped spread the narrative that the United States was responsible for explosions targeting gas pipelines in the Baltic Sea.
www.brookings.edu www.brookings.edu

Click to expand...
The phenomenon is real . . . and propagandized political capital is banked on each/all side/sides.
 
SAJ-99 said:
I heard a former US Natl security expert say that the sabotage of the Nord Stream might have been a test run by Russia to see how the world would react and where blame would be placed. Given the result, Russia might feel it has the green light to use a dirty bomb because they could blame Ukraine. It just reinforces that we live in a world where "reality" is dependent on each individual's point of view. Kind of scary.
Click to expand...
Supposedly Russia can still deliver gas through Nordstream one so why not do a little "selective" destruction just to see where things go.
 
SAJ-99 said:
I agree. The pipeline was in the Baltic Sea, so the thought that Ukraine did it is ridiculous, but Russia blamed the US and NATO allies. Basically what the person said is it was simply floating the idea of doing something and see how the world would react when they blamed the US. It would also make no sense for Ukraine to set off a dirty bomb in Kiev, but if Russia did it, they would just say Ukraine planted it just so they could put the blame on Russia. Everyone gets its information from the web/podcasts today, so it is easy to create stories to shift views.
The Brookings Institute has tracked how the information in Nord Stream spread post-event and the tilt in the narrative. It seems mostly traceable to the political divisions in US. Regardless of how ridiculous the news to some of us, a lot of people really attach to the idea of conspiracies.

www.brookings.edu

U.S. podcasters spread Kremlin narratives on Nord Stream sabotage | Brookings

Popular American podcasters helped spread the narrative that the United States was responsible for explosions targeting gas pipelines in the Baltic Sea.
www.brookings.edu www.brookings.edu
Click to expand...
You want a good conspiracy on who blew up the gas pipeline? Who stands to benefit the most from Russia and the West blaming each other and ramping up the rhetoric? That country would be on the top of my list, yet I have heard no mention of them as a possibility.

World is getting more and more dangerous each day.
 
BigHornRam said:
You want a good conspiracy on who blew up the gas pipeline? Who stands to benefit the most from Russia and the West blaming each other and ramping up the rhetoric? That country would be on the top of my list, yet I have heard no mention of them as a possibility.

World is getting more and more dangerous each day.
Click to expand...
Happy to entertain the theory. How would they benefit?
 
SAJ-99 said:
reinforces that we live in a world where "reality" is dependent on each individual's point of view. Kind of scary.
Click to expand...
A parallel: Republican and Democrat "reality". Some who know better though proceed to propagate their registered ticket's agenda for fear if they break from their own party's "reality", the other party will gain ground - united. Agree. A very scary downward spiral.
 
Sytes said:
A parallel: Republican and Democrat "reality". Some who know better though proceed to propagate their registered ticket's agenda for fear if they break from their own party's "reality", the other party will gain ground - united. Agree. A very scary downward spiral.
Click to expand...
Absolutely
 
VikingsGuy said:
Looks like Rhcuam and AOC are on the same page as usual ;)

www.wsj.com

House Democrats Urge Biden to Speak Directly With Russia to End Ukraine War

A group of 30 House Democrats sent a letter to President Biden asking him to seek direct talks with Russia to reach a diplomatic settlement to the war in Ukraine, marking a new sign of unease in Congress over America’s approach to the fighting.
www.wsj.com www.wsj.com
Click to expand...
You know the spending is really out of control and the Democrats are getting a little sick of it even.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: KB_
Rhcuam said:
You know the spending is really out of control and the Democrats are getting a little sick of it even.
Click to expand...
But they weren't sick of it when the U.S. stayed in Afghanistan for 20 years...not so much as a peep about the money at all, from either party.

No mention of how much we were spending, or were the money was going to come from.

Always found the money, with no trouble...to the tune of nearly 2.5 trillion.

But now, we want to squabble about chump change?

That's funny.
 
BuzzH said:
But they weren't sick of it when the U.S. stayed in Afghanistan for 20 years...not so much as a peep about the money at all, from either party.

No mention of how much we were spending, or were the money was going to come from.

Always found the money, with no trouble.

But now, we want to squabble about chump change?

That's funny.
Click to expand...
I dont have the numbers on hand, But I think we are well on track to spending more on this war then in Afghanistan. We also didnt have to worry about either Russia's village idiot or our village idiots (I dont discriminate) dropping a nuclear warhead nearly as much.

Whole thing is a cluster.
 
KB_ said:
I dont have the numbers on hand, But I think we are well on track to spending more on this war then in Afghanistan. We also didnt have to worry about either Russia's village idiot or our village idiots (I dont discriminate) dropping a nuclear warhead nearly as much.

Whole thing is a cluster.
Click to expand...
Seriously? I think your numbers are a bit astray. Just for the record, a trillion is 1000 billion.

www.state.gov

$2.8 Billion in Additional U.S. Military Assistance for Ukraine and Its Neighbors - United States Department of State

It has been seven months since President Putin’s February invasion of Ukraine, and the war’s terrible toll continues to mount. Thousands of civilians killed or wounded, 13 million Ukrainian civilians forced to flee their homes, historic cities pounded to rubble, horrifying reports of ongoing...
www.state.gov www.state.gov

15.2 billion is a long way off from 2.5 trillion.

We spent 300 million PER DAY in Afghanistan...and we aren't done paying yet.

www.forbes.com

The War In Afghanistan Cost America $300 Million Per Day For 20 Years, With Big Bills Yet To Come

Add in decades of interest payments and care for wounded vets and the total bill could top $6.5 trillion.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
 
BuzzH said:
But they weren't sick of it when the U.S. stayed in Afghanistan for 20 years...not so much as a peep about the money at all, from either party.

No mention of how much we were spending, or were the money was going to come from.

Always found the money, with no trouble...to the tune of nearly 2.5 trillion.

But now, we want to squabble about chump change?

That's funny.
Click to expand...
They should’ve been sick of it then too. We stayed there about 20 years too long. Iraq was a complete waste of time, money, resources and most importantly lives.

Just because we made poor financial decisions in the past does not mean we have to continue to spend like a bunch of drunken teenagers just to appease the warmongers.
 
SAJ-99 said:
Regardless of how ridiculous the news to some of us, a lot of people really attach to the idea of conspiracies.
Click to expand...
Seems in todays environment, if an idea differs from the main stream narrative then it is labeled a conspiracy theory.

Lab leak was dismissed as a conspiracy thrown around by a few podcasters until eventually it became an accepted, if not most likely, theory on origin of CV19.

Hunter Biden laptop story was a conspiracy leveled by rightwing podcasters until it wasn't and is now seen to be factual.

Covid vaccine ineffective against stopping spread was a conspiracy by a few podcasters until the reality smacked us in the face.

Increase in vaccine induced Myocarditis in young males was a conspiracy until the facts became too much to dismiss.

Every once in a while these ridiculous conspiracies prove to be factual. Get a lot wrong for sure as well.
 
Rhcuam said:
They should’ve been sick of it then too. We stayed there about 20 years too long. Iraq was a complete waste of time, money, resources and most importantly lives.

Just because we made poor financial decisions in the past does not mean we have to continue to spend like a bunch of drunken teenagers just to appease the warmongers.
Click to expand...
Well, I guess I missed your outrage over the 2.5 trillion...
 
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