Uh Oh

[Nameless Range]

LOL. What does attending MTFWP meeting have to do with anything?

This coming from a guy who feels the best way to show Buzz that he is wrong would be comments on a YouTube video? Yeah, that would show him....

Roadhunters, not only are they frowned upon during hunting season. They are reading-comprehension and logically challenged.

 

[roadhunter]

This coming from a guy who feels the best way to show Buzz that he is wrong would be comments on a YouTube video? Yeah, that would show him....

Roadhunters, not only are they frowned upon during hunting season. They are reading-comprehension and logically challenged.

Yep, you and Buzz, Greenhorn, SS, TJones, etc are all so smart and you have everything figured out and the rest of us are just "logically challenged" lack "reading comprehension" and have zero "firing brain cells".

LOL. Thanks for proving my point. This is too easy.

The reality is that only a few people see things the way folks like Buzz do. In their mind they are speaking up for hunters. In reality they are a small extremist hunting group who looks down upon most other hunters and is nothing but an embarrassment to the hunting community. But dont' let the reality of the situation stop you from telling us how dumb we all are.

 

[Nameless Range]

Yep, you and Buzz, Greenhorn, SS, TJones, etc are all so smart and you have everything figured out and the rest of us are just "logically challenged" lack "reading comprehension" and have zero "firing brain cells".
.

There you go again Roadhunter. You're attributing a position to me that I have never maintained. No one is talking about "the rest of us". When bringing up reading comprehension and logically challenged, I am talking about you specifically, and I am using your history on this forum as evidence.

 

[smarandr]

As relevant today as it was six months ago:
http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showpost.php?p=2389231&postcount=354

 

[James Riley]

As was mentioned in that thread I'd like to see you make those statements to a group of disabled vets.

As an environmentalist (and proud of it), I remember a debate in the community regarding the ADA (Americans With Disabilities Act) and the extent to which our public lands should be made accessible to those with disabilities. As usual, arguments were taken to their logical (?) extreme by different sides.

It was pretty clear however, that removing that which made a place unique, enticing and desirable in the first place, in order to provide access, would not be sought by anyone, including the disabled. When appropriate baselines are established and agreed upon by parties to an argument, it is clear that the vast, overwhelming majority of land in the lower 48 is accessible to the disabled. Indeed, it is the nature of man to access the best first, so it is obvious the best is already accessible. If it is no longer the best, we have to ask why not? Could it be accessibility? I think it is.

If there is something about what little remains that differentiates it from the rest, we have to ask if maybe inaccessibility might be the redeeming feature. I would argue that it is. I would also argue that to a group of disabled vets. After sincerely thanking them for their service, I would paraphrase to them a part of the legislative history of the Engle Act: "The program for the defense of this nation shall not be conducted in such a fashion as to endanger the very thing it is designed to protect."

 

[roadhunter]

There you go again Roadhunter. You're attributing a position to me that I have never maintained. No one is talking about "the rest of us". When bringing up reading comprehension and logically challenged, I am talking about you specifically, and I am using your history on this forum as evidence.

LOL. So if anyone disagrees with Buzz and his buddies they lack reading comprehension and are logically challenged.

The reactions are so predictable its' not even funny. Like watching your kids fight in the back seat.

Your extreme views might fit in well on this site but keep in mind that right now there are a whopping 45 members online here. And not all of those see things the way Buzz does either. So literally we are talking about a couple dozen people who share these views on this forum.

Looking at the numbers really puts things in perspective. There are not thousands of people who share your negative views on other hunters. Literally a couple dozen. But dont' let that stop you.

 

[tjones]

Your extreme views might fit in well on this site but keep in mind that right now there are a whopping 45 members online here.

So why do you keep coming back?

 

[Nameless Range]

LOL. So if anyone disagrees with Buzz and his buddies they lack reading comprehension and are logically challenged.

No, not "so". Again. For the umpteenth time,that conclusion does not follow from its premise, nor is that the argument that was presented.

Looking at the numbers really puts things in perspective

What numbers, do you have some? And, why would they matter?

This could go on ad nauseum. Have at it Roadhunter. I'm out.

 

[El Jason]

Roadhunter,

Well, if you had attended many FWP meetings you would know that there is a very vocal contingent of lion hunters that believe that there should be many more trophy lion districts in Montana. Of course, this would come at the expense of the deer and elk hunters, and also the lion hunters who simply like opportunity. It's no different than the trophy crowd in the deer and elk hunter circles who would like to see more limited entry hunt districts to satisfy their desire for bigger trophies, which of course come at the expense of every other Joe Schmoe who is simply happy to shoot an elk.

I don't agree with Buzz on everything, and we don't need to. However, he is correct in his assessment of a very vocal portion of the houndsman population.

 

[BuzzH]

Roadhunter,

JLS pretty well summed it up in regard to the lion issues facing Montana and the agenda of the vocal portion of houndsmen.

The reason that attending meetings matter, is because unlike you, I am not forced to "guess" what was said and who said it.

I heard many things in public testimony on this issue. Things like houndsmen asking for a ban on snaring bobcats, splitting bobcat quotas between houndsmen and trappers, trying to stop general season hunting of lions by archery and rifle hunters, reducing lion quotas, forcing trophy cat designation across a large portion of Western Montana, reducing female lion harverst, and the list goes on.

I have no problem with any of that. However, when the need to pass an agenda creates a situation where those driving the agenda resort to lies, fabrications, and ignore science...well that I can't abide.

That's exactly what I heard countless times, were fabrications of the truth, hear-say, and out-right lies in regard to lion Management. Further, the existing harvest data, lion densities, and other science were ignored by the vocal houndsmen.

Those are facts, and I'm not going to apologize for calling out those that pulled this chit for many years and whined enough to finally get their way. I don't care if they're fellow hunters or not, that is immaterial to the issue.

I believe in science based wildlife management, and the data from (from the area I hunt) was showing that from about 1985-early 2000's that lion harvest was being maintained at right near 90 cats, with a range of between 80-110. This is not made up data, that is the hard numbers provided by personal conversations I had with area biologists and pulled from MTFWP records.

Despite the science, the agenda driven houndsmen were able to get trophy cat designations. They did so with a pack of lies and by using up nearly every hour of every public meeting. The whining got so bad, that the last few meetings I attended, the MTFWP had to have mediators to keep the meetings moving forward and shut up the lion hunting whine fest.

So, that is why I will not apologize for my comments on this thread regarding my initial post. Its more likely than not, that this latest stunt is just another page out of the "I want my way, no matter what, and no matter how it impacts anybody else" attitude that I witnessed first hand on many occasions by the houndsmen.

They didn't want to look at the science, they didn't care about how their agenda would impact "trash" species like deer and elk, didn't care about trappers, and sure as hell didn't care about elk and deer hunters.

I lived it...

 

[sbhooper]

It is amazing that Buzz can be accused of hating certain hunters, but somehow, the fact that the lion hunters are bashing trappers is OK. What is wrong with this picture? The anti-trapping BS leads to problems with fighting the animal rights idiots on all fronts.

If it is legal, then do it. If you don't like it and it is legal, then get over it. There is too much back biting within the outdoor community and that is why things get shut down. Somehow, people don't see that a united front is the only thing that will keep ALL FORMS of hunting and wildlife management intact.

 

[SimpleMan]

What meetings do you attend BuzzN and JLS?
I was at quite a few of the meetings in both region 2 and at the Red Lion colonial Inn when regions 1 and 2 were being discussed about possibly switching to permit and I don't recall hearing much support for the permits by lion hunters.
I did speak with the commissioner that pushed the cat permit idea and it was all being pushed from one small area, cause of one outfitter. So I think if you look at the pros and cons of that agenda hearing you'll see more people spoke against rather than for the proposal (other than the sarcastic comments from the people it was against)

 

[BuzzH]

There wasn't a public meeting I ever attended that at least half the time was spent discussing lion issues.

I also respectfully disagree that one outfitter pushed the permit only, trophy cat business.

 

[tjones]

In R2 and even more so the Bitterroot, more time is spent in meetings on lions then any other specie. Fact

 

[mtmuley]

In R2 and even more so the Bitterroot, more time is spent in meetings on lions then any other specie. Fact

Yep. Been there. By then most have left and don't hear the lion guys and their "concerns". mtmuley

 

[shoots-straight]

What meetings do you attend BuzzN and JLS?
I was at quite a few of the meetings in both region 2 and at the Red Lion colonial Inn when regions 1 and 2 were being discussed about possibly switching to permit and I don't recall hearing much support for the permits by lion hunters.
I did speak with the commissioner that pushed the cat permit idea and it was all being pushed from one small area, cause of one outfitter. So I think if you look at the pros and cons of that agenda hearing you'll see more people spoke against rather than for the proposal (other than the sarcastic comments from the people it was against)

That's odd, I heard a lot of lion hunters that supported permits. They complained the outfitters hogged the lion quota and filled it in many areas within a few days.

The outfitters were against the permits, many believed that permits were a way to spread the harvest around, and we (elk and deer hunters) wanted to make sure the quota's are filled so we went to a hybrid season in the Root. Now we need to get a few more cats on the quota to do any good.

I've been to a bunch of meetings concerning cat quotas, seasons, and harvest than the few that we had back in the day discussing permits.

God how long has that been now? Have you been to a meeting sense then?

 

[SimpleMan]

Yeah i go to quite a few of the meetings, I do not live in the bitterroot. But yes I was very much involved in the going to the permit process and unlike your thoughts I never haven't heard all of the complaining and catering to cat hunters, but yes this was caused or supposedly originated because one outfitter would fill all of the quotas for his clients. So i am assuming the broad painting of hound hunters originates out of region 2.
I do think the quotas are way over right now, if you have paid attention quotas in some areas more than doubled. But I think the deer and elk hunters complain so there is a war on all predators right now.
Have you been to a lion quota meeting outside of region 2?