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Tip if you ever need to call/text 911

Jelf

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I have posted about this before here in hunttalk but it has been a few years so time for a refresher.

Assume you are outside somewhere, something bad happens and you need to contact 911. Since you are not at a street address the best location data you can give to the dispatcher is (1) latitude longitude in *decimal degrees* and (2) the equally important accuracy value for those coordinates. Dispatchers are very familiar with coordinate data in this format.

When you call 911 with your cell phone the wireless carrier handling your 911 call is supposed to produce reasonably accurate coordinates for you and make that data available to the 911 dispatcher. In 911-speak these are called “phase 2” coordinates. For various reasons the “phase 2” coordinates for a cell phone caller are sometimes never produced by the wireless carrier or have terrible accuracy.

Are you curious to know why wireless carriers sometimes do not provide 911 dispatchers with good “phase 2” coordinates? I was too! So a few years ago I did a deep dive into documents on the FCC website. Below is a link to a PDF report I produced that will tell you what I learned. Anyone who reads the report will likely be convinced that it is *critically important* that everyone have an easy way to use their phone in a stressful emergency to display their coordinates (latitude longitude in decimal degrees) *and* accuracy value.

Open PDF report:
http://findmesar.com/p/pdf/cell_phone_coordinates_and_911.pdf

Yes, some 911 call centers have additional technology such as RapidSOS that might be able to produce coordinates for you when the “phase 2” coordinates fail. But instead of betting someone’s life on the *assumption* that the 911 call center has some tech that can generate accurate coordinates for you, a much better plan is for you to give the dispatcher your (1) latitude longitude in *decimal degrees* and (2) the equally important accuracy value.

If you want to use the FindMeSAR (https://findmesar.com) webpage I developed, great. This project is a public service and part of my way to “pay it forward”. See near the end of the above PDF file for more information about FindMeSAR. But if you have some other way to easily display your coordinates and accuracy in a stressful emergency, that is fine too. The point here is that everyone (spouse, kids, crazy uncle Harry, etc) should have some easy way to display their coordinates and accuracy value with their cell phone if they ever need to call/text 911.
 
@Jelf, I had no idea you were on Hunttalk. I follow you on Twitter and have had a draft email to you sitting in my drafts folder for 4 months, haha. Thanks for sharing the information.
 
Well you gonna send that email now?

I will put a post together for 'Fireside' about GISsurfer and sharing some public land maps.
 
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interesting stuff. if someone needs SAR to rescue them, are they on the hook for the bill or does that get absorbed by tax payers funds or insurance?
 
My understanding is that SAR in the USA is usually a combination of volunteers plus government resources.
 
interesting stuff. if someone needs SAR to rescue them, are they on the hook for the bill or does that get absorbed by tax payers funds or insurance?
I am on Search and Rescue in Colorado for the past 12 years and can offer the following:
1. There is rarely any charge for a rescue, usually only in cases of clear and obvious bad behavior such as skiing out of bounds and getting in trouble.
2.Every hunting and fishing (plus ATV and park permits among others) license issued has a .25 charge to cover SAR costs. This is important as the local SAR gets some modest reimbursement for rescue expenses that are allocated first to rescues involving people who have a SAR "card" (you can buy a 5 year SAR card if you do not hunt,fish or snowmobile). The second tier is a rescue where someone in the party has a license etc., the last is when no one has any coverage (we rarely get reimbursed for tier 3 cases), we are talking gas at .50 a mile for 4 wheel drive so a reimbursement is often less than $50 for a mission that took 16 hours.
3.SAR coverage gets you to the trailhead ambulance or on the chopper to the hospital and does not extend beyond that. Note that about 27% of hell-evacuees do not get reimbursed by insurance or are charged to the subject.
4. SAR in Colorado is a joint effort by the Sheriff and the volunteer SAR group that is totally self funded. These folks drop their work, family, and head out when called, train at their own expense and supply much of their own equipment so please say thank you when they pull your butt out of the fire.
 
Back in the old flip phone days I kept my ETrex GPS in the centre console of my Jimmy in case I came on a bad MVA. I could give the coordinates to 911 operator and medivac chopper could be straight on its way with no delay. The GPS was stolen years ago and I now have a smart phone. Time for me to smarten it up. Thanks for posting this.
 
I did a thread https://www.hunttalk.com/threads/emergency-location-app-for-your-cell-phone.294956/#post-2954645
On what3words isn't that the same?
It's on my phone
Cheers
Richard
No, FindMeSAR and what3words are not the same.

W3W is proprietary
FindMeSAR is open source

If you use FindMeSAR to give *any* 911 dispatcher lat lng in decimal degrees, they automatically know what to do with that info.
If you give a 911 dispatcher w3w they might go "huh?"
The 911 call center has to have special software to convert w3w into lat lng. You planning to bet your life that the 911 call center handling your emergency has got that software?
 
No, FindMeSAR and what3words are not the same.

W3W is proprietary
FindMeSAR is open source

If you use FindMeSAR to give *any* 911 dispatcher lat lng in decimal degrees, they automatically know what to do with that info.
If you give a 911 dispatcher w3w they might go "huh?"
The 911 call center has to have special software to convert w3w into lat lng. You planning to bet your life that the 911 call center handling your emergency has got that software?
I should have clarified, the emergency services are set up in the UK to work with W3W and other location options.
I just think W3W is easier to convey to a person, rather than GPS co-ords which can be mis understood.
Of course without cell service we are all screwed unless we have a sat phone;)
Just tried it, it was quick thats for sure
Cheers
Richard
 
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I am on Search and Rescue in Colorado for the past 12 years and can offer the following:
1. There is rarely any charge for a rescue, usually only in cases of clear and obvious bad behavior such as skiing out of bounds and getting in trouble.
2.Every hunting and fishing (plus ATV and park permits among others) license issued has a .25 charge to cover SAR costs. This is important as the local SAR gets some modest reimbursement for rescue expenses that are allocated first to rescues involving people who have a SAR "card" (you can buy a 5 year SAR card if you do not hunt,fish or snowmobile). The second tier is a rescue where someone in the party has a license etc., the last is when no one has any coverage (we rarely get reimbursed for tier 3 cases), we are talking gas at .50 a mile for 4 wheel drive so a reimbursement is often less than $50 for a mission that took 16 hours.
3.SAR coverage gets you to the trailhead ambulance or on the chopper to the hospital and does not extend beyond that. Note that about 27% of hell-evacuees do not get reimbursed by insurance or are charged to the subject.
4. SAR in Colorado is a joint effort by the Sheriff and the volunteer SAR group that is totally self funded. These folks drop their work, family, and head out when called, train at their own expense and supply much of their own equipment so please say thank you when they pull your butt out of the fire.
Yep. I was the beneficiary about 9 years ago on an archery mountain goat hunt that went sideways. King Solomon Mountain near Silverton. The assistance, encouragement and professionalism of those volunteers will never be forgotten. It’s the best quarter I’ve ever spent.
 
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