Time for some fun....The Grazing fees announced

O.K., the grazing fee is low, no question. But to compare it to private grazing is apples to oranges.

When you graze private land, you generally have fencing, water systems, salt, rangeriders, etc paid for by the private landowner. These items are NOT paid for with public allotments. So your "cost" of grazing public lands is much higher than the $1.35/aum you pay the govt. In most cases, private lands offers better quality grazing than public.

No, the cost/aum is not going to drive ranchers out of business and lead to development. The LOSS of public lands grazing is what leads to selling (as does huge $$$$ for the deeded, regardless of the grazing). But the point is that if the ranch uses public lands grazing, and that grazing goes away the ranch is no longer a viable entity.

If we remove all cattle from public lands are we going to get rid of all the gov't land managers? If we don't, how will we pay for them?

Finally, the numbers of cattle using public lands is skewed. The number being quoted refers to beef cattle (i.e. slaughter cattle) coming directly from public lands. In Idaho, at least 8 of 10 ranchers I know graze on public lands. The majority of use on public lands is either cow/calf operators or yearling operations. Neither of these operations would sell cattle directly from public lands to go to slaughter (other than a few cull cows). The calves/yearlings would go to a feedlot and then to slaughter.

Just understand that there is a great deal of self serving information being put forth by both sides. I personally support well managed public lands grazing.
 
If we remove all cattle from public lands are we going to get rid of all the gov't land managers? If we don't, how will we pay for them?


Likely the SAME way we pay for them now, with TAX dollars from the general fund. Welfare Ranchers don't pay the cost of administering the land they graze. If you want some education on the STATE costs in Idaho, go to the State Land Board's annual report and look at the total grazing revenue. It is likely not enough money to fund 2 employees and 2 pickups for them, let alone any of the actual costs of managing the land.
 
Hey, I don't think that even a non-resident elk tag fee pays for the grazing an elk does in its lifetime, let alone a resident tag. (Not if the elk grazed 100% of federal land.)
 
"Likely the SAME way we pay for them now, with TAX dollars from the general fund. Welfare Ranchers don't pay the cost of administering the land they graze. If you want some education on the STATE costs in Idaho, go to the State Land Board's annual report and look at the total grazing revenue. It is likely not enough money to fund 2 employees and 2 pickups for them, let alone any of the actual costs of managing the land."

That is exactly the point. The land managers and cost associated with them will remain the same, income (whatever the amount is) will drop.

1 pointer-I must not be that "sensible", first I responded to this thread, then I responded again. DUH!
 
"

That is exactly the point. The land managers and cost associated with them will remain the same, income (whatever the amount is) will drop.

There are HUGE costs in running a Welfare Ranching subsidy that will be eliminated. Ask a land manager how much time he spends on the land vs. how much time he spends in the office.

Do you have any idea how much the Feds spend in court losing trial after trial in an attempt to keep Welfare Ranching going? Just eliminating the costs associated with losing lawsuits would provide the agencies money to spend on wildlife and land management.
 
ID- They'll get you (and me) to do that from time to time. Just keep them in check! ;) BTW, very good info on the % of cows coming from federal lands!
 
Good posts IDHunters,
I'm also in favor of well-managed grazing. There is even info that suggests that well-managed public land grazing can actually benefit wildlife.
 
"Do you have any idea how much the Feds spend in court losing trial after trial in an attempt to keep Welfare Ranching going? Just eliminating the costs associated with losing lawsuits would provide the agencies money to spend on wildlife and land management."


Well, we should tell those damn welfare ranchers to quit suing the land management agencies then.
 
"Do you have any idea how much the Feds spend in court losing trial after trial in an attempt to keep Welfare Ranching going? Just eliminating the costs associated with losing lawsuits would provide the agencies money to spend on wildlife and land management."


Well, we should tell those damn welfare ranchers to quit suing the land management agencies then.

If you knew who the Counsel was to the Idaho Cattlemen's Association, you would know that it ain't the ranchers winning their legal fees from the Agencies.... :D :cool:
 
If you knew who the Counsel was to the Idaho Cattlemen's Association, you would know that it ain't the ranchers winning their legal fees from the Agencies....
Why that almost sounds like 'welfare lawyering'! :D BTW, who is the Counel for the Cattlemen's? Is it who I'd guess it is?
 
Why that almost sounds like 'welfare lawyering'! :D BTW, who is the Counel for the Cattlemen's? Is it who I'd guess it is?

No, just the opposite. The Cattlemen try and intervene but are rarely effective, the Government's lawyers try and run everything on their own, and given that the BLM is committed to breaking the Law, it is pretty easy to win... ;)
 
given that the BLM is committed to breaking the Law, it is pretty easy to win...
Guess I didn't know many of the things that the BLM is sued for are 'Laws'. :D We look to be heading for a few confrontations with a certain group here shortly. Should get pretty interesting and I promise to share any/all outcomes here.
 
The fire things funny. The guy in charge of approving the overtime is getting the same overtime... But, I've yet to see anyone not milk a fire.
 
Guess I didn't know many of the things that the BLM is sued for are 'Laws'. :D We look to be heading for a few confrontations with a certain group here shortly. Should get pretty interesting and I promise to share any/all outcomes here.

The only thing a Judge rules on is the application of the Law. Usually, the BLM is sued because they aren't following the Laws. Nobody ever sues them because of the funny looking uniforms...
 
NICE!!! I'll give you that! Though I plan on losing a few pounds in the next few days; the two toe nails are buggered up on the goat hunt in Nov are about ready to fall off... ;)
 

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