Thinking of elk hunting in Montana?

[ridgeghost]

the situation is this! montana requires that all hunters are responsible to know where they are at all times. there are several different ways to know your location. I chose one of many programs on the market today. i made plans before i went. first i went to Google Earth and maps and looked at the area labeled Gallitin National Forest, found a USFS cabin and made plans to hunt that area. I then purchased a Garmin Rhino 130 gps and downloaded a garmin map program. it to said i was hunting Gallitin NF. According to FWP I was on private property.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Are you handicapped?

 

[5 Point]

first i went to Google Earth and maps and looked at the area labeled Gallitin National Forest, found a USFS cabin and made plans to hunt that area. I then purchased a Garmin Rhino 130 gps and downloaded a garmin map program. it to said i was hunting Gallitin NF. According to FWP I was on private property.

Its not the FWP's fault you wandered onto private land. Problem with alot of the public land in the state is a fence is not always present and even if it is, it doesnt necessarily mean that is the property boundary, and it may be pretty close to the property line. I know of some property lines that are just plain crazy where they are.

What program did you download? Even the basic Garmin maps you can download or that come with the GPS may be fairly 'general' with some public land.

Might recommend this program....

http://www.huntinggpsmaps.com/ (well worth the money if your hunting public land. I dont hunt without it.)
and like mentioned before,
http://svc.mt.gov/msl/mtcadastral/

I would never rely on Google to tell you exactly where the national forest boundary is. A set of good USFS maps and a good GPS go along way.

Dont let a bad experiance ruin your trips to MT. Do your homework alittle better, get actual maps from the USFS, get a better GPS mapper. and study that GPS while hunting areas with private withholdings.

 

[RobG]

the situation is this! montana requires that all hunters are responsible to know where they are at all times. there are several different ways to know your location. I chose one of many programs on the market today. i made plans before i went. first i went to Google Earth and maps and looked at the area labeled Gallitin National Forest, found a USFS cabin and made plans to hunt that area. I then purchased a Garmin Rhino 130 gps and downloaded a garmin map program. it to said i was hunting Gallitin NF. According to FWP I was on private property.

I think I am catching on. Just because you are on National Forest doesn't mean it is public. You were probably on a private "inholding." That area is checkerboarded with them and since you can't corner hop it also locks you out of land that is really public.

 

[1_pointer]

I think I am catching on. Just because you are on National Forest doesn't mean it is public. You were probably on a private "inholding." That area is checkerboarded with them and since you can't corner hop it also locks you out of land that is really public.

Yep! USFS forest boundaries are not the same as USFS managed land. I deal with it quite a bit here in IN near my cabin.

FWIW, last year I was looking at the IN DNR website looking at the boundaries for a public wildlife/hunting area near some land I had bought. Upon zooming in I was a bit surprised to find out that the 55ac I had just bought and even paid the back taxes on was included INSIDE the boundary depicting public land. It took a few phone calls/emails, but in 3 days they had the map fixed on their server. However, I have noticed on some other mapping sites that the boundary has not been fixed...

Situations like you mention is one reason I got the GPS that I did. Once I purchase the software I will be able to better review the boundary information and also be able to get it straight from the source. At least I hope to...

 

[DIY HUNTER]

Unless you actually go to the Cadastrel maps or something more accurate you cannot rely on google earth, USGS 7.5 min maps or the basic gps maps...you can purchase software for your gps that includes land ownership. Here is an example: www.huntinggpsmaps.com/montana-public-private-land-ownership-topo-gps-maps
You probably have the basic download of the usgs maps which are not always right when it comes to edges, corners, and access points.
I usually refer to Cadastral before I go or take a copy of my hunting area just to be sure.

 

[SFC B]

I have to say that the CO DOW folks I have come into contact wih have been squared away. Most are hunters themselves and pretty logical folks.

 

[brownbear932008]

I too would suggest gpshuntingmaps.com they are great I bought both WY. and MT. maps from them and they are the best in my opinion. Now they have the chips I would get those they are much better and easier to manage and so forth. Well worth the money haven't heard of anyone having issues with them yet as far as boundry lines. Some of those boundry lines out west are a mess anyway. Ranchers run fence lines where it's easiest for them it seems instead of where the line actually is located.
I have hunted the Crazies myself a lot of it is checker boarded that's for sure and as they say corner crossing in trespassing. I don't agree with that but that is what is said feel if it is challenged it wouldn't stand up. Too much gray area in there for a court to convict all the way up. Would love to see a supreme court ruling on it. Matter of time I'm sure.

 

[ridgeghost]

thanks all for the information it has been very helpful. the ornery side of me says instead of every hunter going through sooo much searching the landowner could put up a $1.50 sign that says he owns it. like here in Idaho the landowner has to post his land every 200 feet. really easy to understand a sign.. just saying wish there wasnt so many different programs.

 

[Hatchie Dawg]

I want to start here by saying I am not slamming or running down gpshuntingmaps.com, just relaying a specific experience with their CO chip. I love the service and just bought a second map set a few days ago. However, during my CO wilderness hunt last fall, my partner and I apparently walked through a private inholding several miles into a wilderness area. I didn't realize this until I got home and reviewed our hunt area. The strip was only about 200' wide and I think it was an old mining claim. On the gpshuntingmap chip the area did not appear white as the rest of the private land did but was outlined with what looked like penciled in dashes that I didn't notice in the field. The ground showed up green as the rest of the wilderness area did and therefore our mistake. I caught it reviewing BLM and CO NDIS maps once I got home. The area was whited out as private on those maps if I remember correctly. I did call the gpshuntingmaps staff to let them know and make sure I understood what I was seeing. I can't remember who exactly I talked to, but it took him a few minutes to figure out what happened also, so l I don't think it was just me. So what I learned is check your maps and cross reference before you go to make sure you understand all that you are seeing.

 

[5 Point]

I think I am catching on. Just because you are on National Forest doesn't mean it is public. You were probably on a private "inholding." That area is checkerboarded with them and since you can't corner hop it also locks you out of land that is really public.

Exactly right, didnt think about that

Google

True Ownership

 

[5 Point]

And this is right from the program that came with my GPS when I bought it. Same thin, just shows the NF boundaries, not the landownership.

 

[RobG]

I nearly got burned by this once in the northern Bridgers. On the edge of the NF boundary there was a "jog" in the boundary that grabbed an extra section. I forgot my public ownership map but figured that this had to be public - why would the NF boundary's normally straight line grab this section if it was an "inholding"?

Well it was private (and not posted), and yes that is where all the damn elk were. Between all the cattle, the elk, and the quality of the land I decided we were not on public land and we didn't take one. Good thing!

 

[ridgeghost]

I spoke with a law enforcement officer from the USFS in the gallatin national forest and he told me that garmin was using a proclamation map which shows that the usfs would by the land if it came up for sale. he said he did not know how garmin obtained the maps but it has been a huge issue in this area. he also said the reason it was not posted by the usfs was because their budget would not allow them to post the boundary. makes me want to ask both fwp and usfs why they dont make the landowner post it before they can write citations, but somethings are better left unsaid.

 

[Bambistew]

I spoke with a law enforcement officer from the USFS in the gallatin national forest and he told me that garmin was using a proclamation map which shows that the usfs would by the land if it came up for sale. he said he did not know how garmin obtained the maps but it has been a huge issue in this area. he also said the reason it was not posted by the usfs was because their budget would not allow them to post the boundary. makes me want to ask both fwp and usfs why they dont make the landowner post it before they can write citations, but somethings are better left unsaid.

The landowner is not required to post his boundary, you, as a hunter are supposed to know where you are, it's stated numerous times in the hunting regs. The FS doesn’t' have enough money to pay their employees, let alone post their boundaries.

The boundary that Garmin shows is the same boundary that’s shown on USGS maps, and about every map ever made... including a NF map.

Sucks you didn't do your research, and got burned, but don't let that keep you from going back. I can't think of a single NF that I've hunted that is any different. It's not a Montana thing. Pretty much every NF has "in holdings" within the forest boundary. Your best bet is to get a map from the FS, BLM or one of the chips that have actual ownership data for your gps. I'm pretty sure if you had been using an actual FS map, and were busted for trespassing and the map showed you were on NF you could fight it and win.

I don't think the blame falls on anyone buy yourself.

 

[RobG]

I think the place in question had a marked trail through it. It is my understanding that you can't hunt MT private land even if it isn't posted, but you can otherwise walk through it (unless it is posted). Does this mean you could walk through the land with your rifle if you stay on the trail and aren't "hunting" (however that is defined?)

Was the OP on this trail when this happened?

 

[ridgeghost]

OP??

 

[kansasdad]

OP??

Forum speak for "original poster".........ie you Ridgeghost

 

[Topgun 30-06]

The OP obviously just didn't do enough with what is out there and obtainable so that he wouldn't have had this trespass problem. He will have the same problem in other western states if he tries to hunt in areas that have private properties just like another member stated. Instead of spending $2000 fighting the ticket like he stated in the only other thread he's been on about this same subject, he should have spent a few bucks and bought the proper maps and a GPS chip to stay out of trouble instead of babmouthing the FWP Warden.

 

[mixedbag]

So what all did they get you for and how much???I assume it didn't effect your hunting privledges.I hunt the Crazies and love it,but I don't hunt anywhere near the checkerboard stuff