Things that run through my mind while at work...

[AvidIndoorsman]

Pretty anemic 45-70, I'd say.

2 3/4 = less
3 inch = about even with +P loads
3.5 inch = way more energy

 

[BrentD]

@200 or 300 yds?

 

[44hunter45]

I've killed a lot of critters with the .30-30 and I try to get out in the woods at least once a year with mine. Like @Backofbeyond (in his wild youth...), North Idaho is my playground. Even carrying a .264 WM, I have more kills inside 100 than past it. My LONGEST elk kill is less than 150 yards on a re-prod in the Selway drainage. Most days that I have a WonderMag in my hands, I'm thinking about that .30-30 in the safe.

I've also killed deer with a .30-30 T/C Contender with a 10" barrel. It belonged to a former brother-in-law. Like him, that gun was an a$$hole. I got so flinchy with it that I was glad when he sold it.

My 1916 with the crescent butt plate is no slouch in the recoil department. It has a short length of pull and I'm big guy. Sometimes I don't mount the gun like I should when shooting fast and I pay for it.

Technogeek moment-

Assuming we all know this stuff, but more words, more dopamine....

Flat or round nose bullets are required in a tubular magazine to prevent chain detonations in the tube. Hammer makes a mono with a huge cavity which does the same thing. LEVERevolution® Ammo uses a soft ballistic tip for this.

Most factory ammo for .30-30 is pathetic, handloaders can get a lot more out it. Like 45/70 or 45 Colt, and 6.5x55, responsible ammo makers are limited by SAAMI and the possibility of their loads being shot in older guns. I actually de-tune my handloads for my vintage M1894. I've read that commercial loaders are more interested in making their 150 grain and 170 grain load have the same POI at 100 yards than striving for ballistic performance. That gives the handloader lots of experimentation room to improve on the boxed stuff.

Most engineered bullets today have a minimum performance velocity of 1800 fps. When your muzzle velocity is 2000-2100 out of a 20" barrel and the bullet has the BC of a rock, 1800 fps downrange comes up pretty close. So, "cup and core" might be your best friend out of a .30-30.

I've used Speer Hot-Cor FP almost exclusively for years. I like Hornady RN bullets in .30-30 and 6.5x55,too. Woodleigh makes a great .30-30 bullet. I'm told they are almost back to full production after their shop fire last year.

Factory velocity numbers on the ammo box were usually shot from 24" barrels. YMMV in shorter saddle guns. This makes me want to take Betsy out for a spin today with the LabRadar to see what's really happening.

Back to the OP question.

I kind of view the .30-30 like the 410 bore. Many of us started with one and could not wait until we could get a "real gun". Then as the years have progressed, we remember how great it was.

 

[BrentD]

Your choice of "generic 12 gauge slug" (I dare you to shoot this in your 870 5 times )

(yd)	(in)	(MOA)	(in)	(MOA)	(ft/s)	(none)	(ft•lbs)	(s)	(in)	(MOA)
Range	Drop	Drop	Windage	Windage	Velocity	Mach	Energy	Time	Lead	Lead
0	-1.5	***	0.0	***	1895.0	1.697	4783.5	0.000	0.0	***
100	-0.0	-0.0	1.1	1.1	1748.4	1.566	4072.0	0.165	0.0	0.0
200	-9.9	-4.7	4.8	2.3	1610.5	1.443	3455.0	0.344	0.0	0.0
300	-33.2	-10.6	11.1	3.5	1482.5	1.328	2927.7	0.538	0.0	0.0
400	-72.4	-17.3	20.3	4.9	1366.0	1.224	2485.5	0.749	0.0	0.0
500	-130.2	-24.9	32.7	6.2	1262.7	1.131	2123.9	0.977	0.0	0.0
600	-209.9	-33.4	48.2	7.7	1174.6	1.052	1837.9	1.224	0.0	0.0
700	-314.7	-42.9	66.8	9.1	1103.0	0.988	1620.6	1.488	0.0	0.0
800	-448.1	-53.5	88.2	10.5	1046.1	0.937	1457.8	1.768	0.0	0.0
900	-613.3	-65.1	112.0	11.9	1000.2	0.896	1332.6	2.061	0.0	0.0
1000	-813.4	-77.7	138.1	13.2	961.7	0.861	1232.0	2.368	0.0	0.0

Your choice of .45-70

(yd)	(in)	(MOA)	(in)	(MOA)	(ft/s)	(none)	(ft•lbs)	(s)	(in)	(MOA)
Range	Drop	Drop	Windage	Windage	Velocity	Mach	Energy	Time	Lead	Lead
0	-1.5	***	0.0	***	1764.8	1.581	3180.6	0.000	0.0	***
100	-0.0	-0.0	1.3	1.2	1625.8	1.456	2699.4	0.177	0.0	0.0
200	-11.7	-5.6	5.2	2.5	1496.6	1.341	2287.4	0.370	0.0	0.0
300	-38.9	-12.4	12.1	3.8	1378.7	1.235	1941.1	0.578	0.0	0.0
400	-84.4	-20.2	22.0	5.3	1273.8	1.141	1656.9	0.805	0.0	0.0
500	-151.4	-28.9	35.1	6.7	1183.8	1.060	1431.2	1.050	0.0	0.0
600	-243.2	-38.7	51.3	8.2	1110.3	0.995	1259.0	1.312	0.0	0.0
700	-363.2	-49.5	70.3	9.6	1051.9	0.942	1130.1	1.590	0.0	0.0
800	-514.6	-61.4	91.9	11.0	1004.9	0.900	1031.4	1.882	0.0	0.0
900	-700.5	-74.3	115.6	12.3	965.7	0.865	952.4	2.187	0.0	0.0
1000	-923.8	-88.2	141.5	13.5	931.8	0.835	886.8	2.504	0.0	0.0

Yup. Looks like you win. You shoot the elk with that slug. I'll take my .45-70 and I will shoot it MUCH slower.

 

[44hunter45]

Your choice of "generic 12 gauge slug" (I dare you to shoot this in your 870 5 times )

Range	Drop	Drop	Windage	Windage	Velocity	Mach	Energy	Time	Lead	Lead
(yd)	(in)	(MOA)	(in)	(MOA)	(ft/s)	(none)	(ft•lbs)	(s)	(in)	(MOA)
0	-1.5	***	0.0	***	1895.0	1.697	4783.5	0.000	0.0	***
100	-0.0	-0.0	1.1	1.1	1748.4	1.566	4072.0	0.165	0.0	0.0
200	-9.9	-4.7	4.8	2.3	1610.5	1.443	3455.0	0.344	0.0	0.0
300	-33.2	-10.6	11.1	3.5	1482.5	1.328	2927.7	0.538	0.0	0.0
400	-72.4	-17.3	20.3	4.9	1366.0	1.224	2485.5	0.749	0.0	0.0
500	-130.2	-24.9	32.7	6.2	1262.7	1.131	2123.9	0.977	0.0	0.0
600	-209.9	-33.4	48.2	7.7	1174.6	1.052	1837.9	1.224	0.0	0.0
700	-314.7	-42.9	66.8	9.1	1103.0	0.988	1620.6	1.488	0.0	0.0
800	-448.1	-53.5	88.2	10.5	1046.1	0.937	1457.8	1.768	0.0	0.0
900	-613.3	-65.1	112.0	11.9	1000.2	0.896	1332.6	2.061	0.0	0.0
1000	-813.4	-77.7	138.1	13.2	961.7	0.861	1232.0	2.368	0.0	0.0

Your choice of .45-70

Range	Drop	Drop	Windage	Windage	Velocity	Mach	Energy	Time	Lead	Lead
(yd)	(in)	(MOA)	(in)	(MOA)	(ft/s)	(none)	(ft•lbs)	(s)	(in)	(MOA)
0	-1.5	***	0.0	***	1764.8	1.581	3180.6	0.000	0.0	***
100	-0.0	-0.0	1.3	1.2	1625.8	1.456	2699.4	0.177	0.0	0.0
200	-11.7	-5.6	5.2	2.5	1496.6	1.341	2287.4	0.370	0.0	0.0
300	-38.9	-12.4	12.1	3.8	1378.7	1.235	1941.1	0.578	0.0	0.0
400	-84.4	-20.2	22.0	5.3	1273.8	1.141	1656.9	0.805	0.0	0.0
500	-151.4	-28.9	35.1	6.7	1183.8	1.060	1431.2	1.050	0.0	0.0
600	-243.2	-38.7	51.3	8.2	1110.3	0.995	1259.0	1.312	0.0	0.0
700	-363.2	-49.5	70.3	9.6	1051.9	0.942	1130.1	1.590	0.0	0.0
800	-514.6	-61.4	91.9	11.0	1004.9	0.900	1031.4	1.882	0.0	0.0
900	-700.5	-74.3	115.6	12.3	965.7	0.865	952.4	2.187	0.0	0.0
1000	-923.8	-88.2	141.5	13.5	931.8	0.835	886.8	2.504	0.0	0.0

Yup. Looks like you win. You shoot the elk with that slug. I'll take my .45-70 and I will shoot it MUCH slower.

+1 for Team Brent....

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Your choice of "generic 12 gauge slug" (I dare you to shoot this in your 870 5 times )

(yd)	(in)	(MOA)	(in)	(MOA)	(ft/s)	(none)	(ft•lbs)	(s)	(in)	(MOA)
Range	Drop	Drop	Windage	Windage	Velocity	Mach	Energy	Time	Lead	Lead
0	-1.5	***	0.0	***	1895.0	1.697	4783.5	0.000	0.0	***
100	-0.0	-0.0	1.1	1.1	1748.4	1.566	4072.0	0.165	0.0	0.0
200	-9.9	-4.7	4.8	2.3	1610.5	1.443	3455.0	0.344	0.0	0.0
300	-33.2	-10.6	11.1	3.5	1482.5	1.328	2927.7	0.538	0.0	0.0
400	-72.4	-17.3	20.3	4.9	1366.0	1.224	2485.5	0.749	0.0	0.0
500	-130.2	-24.9	32.7	6.2	1262.7	1.131	2123.9	0.977	0.0	0.0
600	-209.9	-33.4	48.2	7.7	1174.6	1.052	1837.9	1.224	0.0	0.0
700	-314.7	-42.9	66.8	9.1	1103.0	0.988	1620.6	1.488	0.0	0.0
800	-448.1	-53.5	88.2	10.5	1046.1	0.937	1457.8	1.768	0.0	0.0
900	-613.3	-65.1	112.0	11.9	1000.2	0.896	1332.6	2.061	0.0	0.0
1000	-813.4	-77.7	138.1	13.2	961.7	0.861	1232.0	2.368	0.0	0.0

Your choice of .45-70

(yd)	(in)	(MOA)	(in)	(MOA)	(ft/s)	(none)	(ft•lbs)	(s)	(in)	(MOA)
Range	Drop	Drop	Windage	Windage	Velocity	Mach	Energy	Time	Lead	Lead
0	-1.5	***	0.0	***	1764.8	1.581	3180.6	0.000	0.0	***
100	-0.0	-0.0	1.3	1.2	1625.8	1.456	2699.4	0.177	0.0	0.0
200	-11.7	-5.6	5.2	2.5	1496.6	1.341	2287.4	0.370	0.0	0.0
300	-38.9	-12.4	12.1	3.8	1378.7	1.235	1941.1	0.578	0.0	0.0
400	-84.4	-20.2	22.0	5.3	1273.8	1.141	1656.9	0.805	0.0	0.0
500	-151.4	-28.9	35.1	6.7	1183.8	1.060	1431.2	1.050	0.0	0.0
600	-243.2	-38.7	51.3	8.2	1110.3	0.995	1259.0	1.312	0.0	0.0
700	-363.2	-49.5	70.3	9.6	1051.9	0.942	1130.1	1.590	0.0	0.0
800	-514.6	-61.4	91.9	11.0	1004.9	0.900	1031.4	1.882	0.0	0.0
900	-700.5	-74.3	115.6	12.3	965.7	0.865	952.4	2.187	0.0	0.0
1000	-923.8	-88.2	141.5	13.5	931.8	0.835	886.8	2.504	0.0	0.0

Yup. Looks like you win. You shoot the elk with that slug. I'll take my .45-70 and I will shoot it MUCH slower.

I’m taking my .264 for elk, I don’t need that kinda punishment, my general point is that slug guns are burly.

I’d take the .45-70 over the 12 gauge as well lol

 

[Nick87]

Any of y'all ever shoot Brenneke Rottweill slugs?

We (me n @CowboyLeroy ) had those for our twenty gages. We thought those rounds, with their clear casing, were the coolest things ever. I felt like I had an RPG in my hands. Knew if I could ever hit one that baby was going down like Frazier!

I remember them. I've shot just about every type brand of slug there was at one point. Hornady always shot the best in my gun.

 

[BAKPAKR]

I can see a corlokt separating and not passing through. I've had it happen with whitetails and my .308. I know that he killed elk, both bulls and cows, with the same gun with no problem. But this was the last one before they moved out of Colorado and it stuck with him.

I remember recovering a 180 grain Cor-Lokt from a 300 WM from my dad’s bull elk. Of course, it was not a pass through but it looked just like the photos in the Remington ads and resulted in a dead bull. I don’t think a Berger or a Hammer or a Nosler bullet would have done any better.

 

[2rocky]

if you consider 1000 ft. lbs of energy as a minimum for deer and 1500 ft.lbs a minimum for elk, the 30-30 is marginal at best.

Today’s Ammo​

Thirteen years later, today’s LEVERevolution ammo for the ubiquitous .30-30 is better than ever. The 160-grain, flex-tipped projectile leaves the muzzle at about 2,400 fps, yielding 2,046 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. Velocity remains high—2,150 fps at 100 yards, 1,916 fps at 200 yards, and 1,619 fps at 300 yards—and so does the energy downrange. The bullet delivers 1,304 ft-lbs of energy at 200 yards. And at 300 yards, it still has 1,025 ft-lbs—plenty to kill any deer.


Inside 100 yard should be enough energy to kill an elk in Heart/Lung area, but you are not going to kill one like an '06 or .300 WM at 200 yards....you are going to be at 1500ft.lbs at 150 yds

 

[mtmuley]

if you consider 1000 ft. lbs of energy as a minimum for deer and 1500 ft.lbs a minimum for elk, the 30-30 is marginal at best.

Today’s Ammo​

Thirteen years later, today’s LEVERevolution ammo for the ubiquitous .30-30 is better than ever. The 160-grain, flex-tipped projectile leaves the muzzle at about 2,400 fps, yielding 2,046 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. Velocity remains high—2,150 fps at 100 yards, 1,916 fps at 200 yards, and 1,619 fps at 300 yards—and so does the energy downrange. The bullet delivers 1,304 ft-lbs of energy at 200 yards. And at 300 yards, it still has 1,025 ft-lbs—plenty to kill any deer.


Inside 100 yard should be enough energy to kill an elk in Heart/Lung area, but you are not going to kill one like an '06 or .300 WM at 200 yards....you are going to be at 1500ft.lbs at 150 yds

143 Lever Hammer can be loaded to 2400 fps plus. I have a box, but have had no time. mtmuley

 

[Dougfirtree]

You can't really be ok with a .30-06 at 350 yards, but not a .30-30 at 80 yards...

 

[MTLabrador]

View attachment 225548


View attachment 225549
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View attachment 225551
2 3/4 = less
3 inch = about even with +P loads
3.5 inch = way more energy

Depending on the type of slug the penetration can be pretty terrible on larger animals. I’ve seen soft lead hollowpoint slugs flatten out and fail to penetrate elk shoulders a few times.

I’ve seen some elk shot with the .30-30, it does a great job.

 

[chrispbrown27]

I have shot the Brenneke slugs and they were ok. I always shot the basic rifled (foster) slug, which you used to be able to buy for 2 bucks a box even during season. Most of what I hunted was thick, hilly timber, so a shot over 75 yards was a rare thing. On the rare occasion that I hunted a field edge, I positioned myself so that a 75 yard shot was likely.
That is an interesting thought on how the mountain men would have done under modern constraints. I. like others, have had the thought that these men were lucky to have made their living hunting and fishing. Then I think about how many times I come home with nothing for the freezer and think that I likely would not have survived!
For a few years, I had a fixed 4 power scope on my shotgun for deer and turkey. Sighting that scope in each year for deer season was punishing, but turkey season was worse. They don't mess around with those turkey loads! I grew up across the road from a man that hunted with a single shot ten gauge. Those shells looked like roman candles!
I have always wanted a Marlin 45/70 but I have no idea what I would actually use it for. I did know a guy that used one for deer season here in Kentucky, but when he pointed a gun inches above my head at a flock of ducks that were well out of range we somehow lost touch.
I have toted a shotgun through flooded timber with 3 dozen decoys strapped to my back while hoping that I don't find a ditch...the weight of the shotgun was the least of my worries. For this reason, I have never understood the ultra-light rifle craze.

 

[Nick87]

I have toted a shotgun through flooded timber with 3 dozen decoys strapped to my back while hoping that I don't find a ditch...the weight of the shotgun was the least of my worries.

Sucks doesn't it.

 

[chrispbrown27]

It did, but I still miss it. There is something about ducks filtering through timber that gets to ya.

 

[Shangobango]

Fridays are always a slow day for me at work.

Friday is the new Monday around here…most hectic day of the week.

Interesting thoughts for sure. I have never shot an elk in my life but I would think a well placed shot with a .30-.30 at 75-100 yards would be perfectly effective on elk.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I have toted a shotgun through flooded timber with 3 dozen decoys strapped to my back while hoping that I don't find a ditch...the weight of the shotgun was the least of my worries. For this reason, I have never understood the ultra-light rifle craze.

It’s a funny context thing, I’ve carried bags of decoys upriver, while wearing neoprene chest waders in MT for a couple miles… special kind of suck.

At the same time I now look at the weight of hiking boots and have strong opinions on what’s too heavy lol

 

[Nick87]

It’s a funny context thing, I’ve carried bags of decoys upriver, while wearing neoprene chest waders in MT for a couple miles… special kind of suck.

At the same time I now look at the weight of hiking boots and have strong opinions on what’s too heavy lol

Neoprene waders and a heavy load to carry makes for a special kind of f#ck this $hit miserable, especially above 40 degrees.

 

[BTripp86]

Neoprene waders and a heavy load to carry makes for a special kind of f#ck this $hit miserable, especially above 40 degrees.

Neoprene waders were invented by Satan his own self. I can remember trying to build blinds/teal hunt in a pair I got cheap when I first started duck hunting. Borderline heatstroke. Those old Cabelas breathable waders were the best money I ever spent on waterfowl gear. Go undies only during teal season, Layer with merino and fleece under during late season, or anything in between.

 

[Nick87]

Neoprene waders were invented by Satan his own self. I can remember trying to build blinds/teal hunt in a pair I got cheap when I first started duck hunting. Borderline heatstroke. Those old Cabelas breathable waders were the best money I ever spent on waterfowl gear. Go undies only during teal season, Layer with merino and fleece under during late season, or anything in between.

I still don't have a breathable pair. I need to get them. If I have a long hike its usually dry til I get where I'm hunting so I tie them to a decoy bag and put em on when I get there. Last year for whatever reason I hiked in about 3/4 of a mile to a spot early season. Wearing neoprene 1600s. Early season like 50 degrees gun, blind bag, 18 decoys, and a 50lb three year old on my hip(in a hurry)I thought for sure I was gonna puke when I got there.