Here is a newly released video of the Arizona projects. I was at 2 of the 4 of them and it was very well done and a great experience to be a part of.
There's alot of money out there
- Thread starter elkantlers
- Start date
Here is a newly released video of the Arizona projects. I was at 2 of the 4 of them and it was very well done and a great experience to be a part of.
marksjeep
Well-known member
20% is the standard for dead weight. It's no wonder your mules acted like asses, if you are loading them with 1/3 of their weight. Holy crap. Poor animals don't stand a chance.
Interesting that the Montana mule deer hunt went for more money than the Sonora hunt and almost as much as the Paunsaugunt hunt.
OntarioHunter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2020
- Messages
- 5,887
They were NEVER following me. Again I'm not stupid enough to try leading a mule around in the backcountry by myself (though apparently you think it's okay). They were following my horse. Yes, I had some shitshows with horses I was riding but never when I was leading a packstring. The very few incidents were solo affairs that involved a disagreement over change in routine. I would have sent that gal to the cannery except she was a helluva hard worker. She just had it in her mind what had to be done. My opinion didn't count.
D
Deleted member 20812
Guest
The mule used to pack the piano was 1800 pounds. The piano was 400. That’s 22% of body weight, 24% with saddle. Per Smoke’s book, it took them all day to travel 9 miles, indicating this is far outside the norm.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Any maps on where these sheep were trapped from and then transplanted to?
@BigHornRam I don’t know if there’s any made or not.
First one was 37a near the silver bell mine into 32/33 Galiuro Mountains/Arivaipa Canyon.
Then 24b near canyon lake to the Picacho Mountains in 37b on the N/E side of I-10 between Casa Grande and Tucson
3rd was Plomosas to Harcuvars. I think that’s 44BN to 44a
Rockies were from unit 27 at the Morenci Mine in Clifton to Clear Cr canyon in 6a, I think.
First one was 37a near the silver bell mine into 32/33 Galiuro Mountains/Arivaipa Canyon.
Then 24b near canyon lake to the Picacho Mountains in 37b on the N/E side of I-10 between Casa Grande and Tucson
3rd was Plomosas to Harcuvars. I think that’s 44BN to 44a
Rockies were from unit 27 at the Morenci Mine in Clifton to Clear Cr canyon in 6a, I think.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
Sounds good but not really what I am trying to speak on.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
Agreed.
Although not unusual to exceed if necessary.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
antlerradar
Well-known member
If we could convince @SaskHunter and the rest of the Provence to let the super tag holder fudge the boarder by five miles I bet we could get near Arizona strip money.
D
Deleted member 20812
Guest
Certainly. I have. It’s important to remember, the potential severity of your wreck increases a lot with the increase in load weight.
Stan Potts was a legendary packer in the Frank Church for decades. I had the privilege of meeting him. He was adamant he would never load a pack animal at more than 60-65 pounds per side of a 1000 lb mule due to the ruggedness of the country in the hazard it came with.
That’s immediately where my mind always goes when I hear Stan Potts even when I know the reference is the packer
BigHornRam
Well-known member
BigHornRam
Well-known member
Good thing I've never watched that channel .
OntarioHunter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2020
- Messages
- 5,887
Journal of United States Artillery, Coast Artillery Training Centre, 1895
“The Pack Mule and Mountain Artillery” pp. 591-594. For an “average” mule weighing 950 lbs, the recommended maximum dead weight pack load for “hard marching” mountain conditions with an "apadero" style saddle (Decker) was 270 lbs or 29% of the animal’s body weight (p. 591). I submit that under normal circumstances the average outdoorsman would not be demanding anything close to military “hard marching” from his livestock when reaching the objective. In normal conditions over a good trail presumably another three to five percent could be safely added to that “hard marching” weight limit? The authors furthermore acknowledge that weights of up to 472 lbs/average weight mule (950 lbs) were doable in the hands of experienced packers and loaded on the “very best” livestock over short periods (p. 592) In other words, fifty percent of the animal’s weight! No horse can do that, even with live weight. It is interesting to note the authors are of the opinion, and I agree, that in the backcountry there is a point of diminishing returns when considering the size of a mule (or, for that matter, a horse). “Little additional load is conceded to the increase in size or weight of the mule, as it is held that little or nothing is to be gained beyond about 1,000 pounds in the weight of a mule.” (p. 593)
“The Pack Mule and Mountain Artillery” pp. 591-594. For an “average” mule weighing 950 lbs, the recommended maximum dead weight pack load for “hard marching” mountain conditions with an "apadero" style saddle (Decker) was 270 lbs or 29% of the animal’s body weight (p. 591). I submit that under normal circumstances the average outdoorsman would not be demanding anything close to military “hard marching” from his livestock when reaching the objective. In normal conditions over a good trail presumably another three to five percent could be safely added to that “hard marching” weight limit? The authors furthermore acknowledge that weights of up to 472 lbs/average weight mule (950 lbs) were doable in the hands of experienced packers and loaded on the “very best” livestock over short periods (p. 592) In other words, fifty percent of the animal’s weight! No horse can do that, even with live weight. It is interesting to note the authors are of the opinion, and I agree, that in the backcountry there is a point of diminishing returns when considering the size of a mule (or, for that matter, a horse). “Little additional load is conceded to the increase in size or weight of the mule, as it is held that little or nothing is to be gained beyond about 1,000 pounds in the weight of a mule.” (p. 593)
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
In our 20s my buddy and I were 7 mi in there on a couple of horse. Just a quick day ride/hunt that started at 3am, at sunset he shoots a raghorn in the timber thinking it was the herd bull. Me being injured too bad to walk out and him not wanting to cancel on someone the next day led to his 11-1200 pound mare. Having the whole quartered elk on her in panniers in a riding saddle, antlers and all. Now she was in shape built thick, low and tuff but we shouldn't have done her like that. Cut to half way out I am riding ahead and he is leading her across a series of rock slides and cliffs. Its pitch black and we can't see anything.
I first hear him yelling her name and then hear rocks rolling down the hill. All hell breaks loose and I realize she is 50yd down the cliff because I can see sparks from her shoes on the rocks. We keep calling her name and watching the sparks until she some how climbed back to us. It was a terrible spot. she had no marks on her and had maintained her feet the whole way. Still had everything on her. My buddy says the trail just gave out under her. I couldn't believe she made it out alive. We made the truck by 1am. Heavy packs on bad trails are asking for trouble.
Last edited:
Lilhowie83
Well-known member
You beat me to it. I was going to take a picture out of my copy of that book when I got home. I went through Smoke's class 2 years ago and he was very adement that both horses and mules should only be loaded 1/5 or 20٪ of their body weight as a rule of thumb. Some can handle more som can handle less.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
The limit to pack stock has always been if they need to carry their own food. A 175# rider with 60# of gear can be good for 4 -5days. But if the horse needs feed things get complicated fast.
