Tag your animal immediately!
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jryoung
Well-known member
I think that's an honest statement....now the editors on the other hand, that's where the "story" is created.
MontanaWild
New member
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- Jan 7, 2012
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Well by definition no one can be legal in immediately tagging their game. The definition of immediately is "instantly" or "without any intervening time or space." Better have that tag right next to your rifle with a knife laid out. After a long hunt (sometimes years) people are excited when they finally get an animal on the ground. They get wrapped up sometimes and it often takes a bit before the tag is punched. That's not a crime in my book and it sounds like this warden is an azz hat.
H
hnt4life
Guest
I have only watched this show once. Headline: "group terrorizes a local beach, Next on wardens" Turns out my 65 year old uncle was drinking a beer out of a glass bottle at Jonsrud. He had a plastic cooler just big enough for a six pack and was keeping his bottles in there. I think his fine was 185 bucks.
People will act different when in front of a camera. I'm sure this warden, being a solid Montana man, would have acted differently if the cameras were not looking over his shoulder. Of course, none of us were there, so there is a lot of speculation to be had.
People will act different when in front of a camera. I'm sure this warden, being a solid Montana man, would have acted differently if the cameras were not looking over his shoulder. Of course, none of us were there, so there is a lot of speculation to be had.
Nameless Range
Well-known member
I would be interested to know more about this now. Seems we possibly have only heard one side of the story.
Sam Sheppard, regional supervisor for FWP Region 3, put it this way: “(There were) circumstances and actions that lead him (the warden) to believe, in his professional judgment, that this elk was not going to be tagged.”
http://helenair.com/news/opinion/ethical-hunters-public-need-wardens-to-enforce-game-laws/article_18475588-56a4-597a-9697-8b0739ab840b.html
Sam Sheppard, regional supervisor for FWP Region 3, put it this way: “(There were) circumstances and actions that lead him (the warden) to believe, in his professional judgment, that this elk was not going to be tagged.”
http://helenair.com/news/opinion/ethical-hunters-public-need-wardens-to-enforce-game-laws/article_18475588-56a4-597a-9697-8b0739ab840b.html
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noharleyyet
Well-known member
Yes, more specifics to corroborate the branch manager's PR generalities would be nice.
I think so too. Especially because in the other article it says that the tag was punched prior to the game warden walking up on the guy.
Bambistew
Well-known member
Must have been a lot of circumstances... considering the county attorney tossed the case. I've yet to meat a prosecutor that has a heart, they toss cases because they can't win them.
What else doesn't add up... why would they give him back his antlers if he was such a criminal? they even remarked that it was unusual. Maybe in hopes that they guy doesn't go to the press? Should have tossed in some elk steaks instead.
What else doesn't add up... why would they give him back his antlers if he was such a criminal? they even remarked that it was unusual. Maybe in hopes that they guy doesn't go to the press? Should have tossed in some elk steaks instead.
Does the fact that he didn't tag the animal and was in violation REQUIRE that the the meat and horns be confiscated, or is that part of it at the discretion of the warden? I assume it's his discretion since he got to keep the horns???
The Hedgehog
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- Dec 19, 2000
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- 11,711
When did you see this one? I miss all the good episodes and have only seen crummy ones. Missed the "let's sting Lewton episode" too. Bummer. Do you have any hunting tips to share today?
RobertR
Member
Read in the comments what Warren L has to say.
http://helenair.com/news/opinion/ed...6a4-597a-9697-8b0739ab840b.html?mode=comments
http://helenair.com/news/opinion/ed...6a4-597a-9697-8b0739ab840b.html?mode=comments
Desert Sheep
Active member
There was an interesting letter in the Helena paper today.
http://helenair.com/news/opinion/mo...cle_2b831671-5463-5772-946b-605f4ce21577.html
Probably not the same warden, but......
http://helenair.com/news/opinion/mo...cle_2b831671-5463-5772-946b-605f4ce21577.html
Probably not the same warden, but......
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LILIDAHO
New member
My guess he was watching thru binos becase in one of the articles it states that the tag was on the animal when the warden and camera man showed up. Pretty petty if you ask me. Warning, common since would go along way. LIL
npaden
Well-known member
So what happens when people wait for a bit to make sure the animal is dead before approaching it? 21 minutes sounds pretty close to immediately to me, especially since the hadn't even moved the elk yet or left it.
Something tells me that this incident isn't ever going to get any on air time although Topgun claims he already watched it.
Something tells me that this incident isn't ever going to get any on air time although Topgun claims he already watched it.
Jim-MN-ELK
New member
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- Dec 28, 2014
- Messages
- 10
Confiscated elk for TV Show footage
I gave respect with a prayer, discussed removal plan, took pictures, validated and tagged my elk and started field dressing. These were my actions "immediately" after dropping my elk.
That took 21 minutes according to the young warden.The warden and cameraman showed up 10 to 15 minutes later and that proof is recorded. I never knew I was being watched, or timed until I noticed two men wearing camouflage jackets, 100 yards away walking towards me. When they were closer, the warden raised his arm and identified himself. I waved back to them and in a good humored voice said, "Are you guys here to help me"? The reply was a "laugh". Then when the warden saw the 20 feet of open water that separated us he said... You know it's early and it's cold. I'm going to be out here all day and I really don't want to get wet and muddy right now. Will you bring me your tag? Already being wet to the waist, (and having no clue as to what was about to unfold) I said "Sure! I'm already wet". Then removed the tag from the frosted left antler and wadded across the water and handed it to him.
It's not my intention to debate the MT Hunting Regulations in this reply or to bad mouth wardens in general. My intent is to clear up a few statements that suggest I had some kind of intent to break the law... and a few comments that question my hunting ethics. And then to the comments which suggest that some kind of verbal abuse or arrogance on my part happened, or using my out-of-state status as an excuse is TOTALLY wrong. My only mention of how tagging is done in Minnesota was in reply to the warden's question... "So how do they do it in Minnesota"? When it was apparent he was confiscating my elk I asked, what will happen to it? He said "The head will be kept as evidence, the meat will be processed and frozen until the outcome of your court date". If that is common practice, why didn't it happen that way? Maybe because my bull rode around for 6 to 7 hours after being killed, in bright sun and 71 degree temperatures before arriving at a processor has something to do with it.
I've read hundreds of replies to my story, which 95% were written by hunters who can understand why this should have never happened. Yes, I was very excited to take this bull within the first few minutes of the 2014 season. Yes, according to the letter of the law, I should have tagged this elk when I reached it. But this is where my perception of immediately does not fit the punishment handed out by a "star struck", overzealous, and very unreasonable warden who has a severe lack of common sense.
Guess I shouldn't have felt the need to pray over the beautiful animal I just killed, or record this event with a few pictures. After 50 some years of hunting, 29 years in business as a guide on Lake Superior and never having a citation for a serious crime of any kind, I can assure those who doubt my hunting/fishing ethics are wrong in doing so. My interactions with the MN-DNR have always been on good terms and I won't let this incident sour my opinion on wardens (of any state) in general. With that being said, it's my opinion that the warden who took my elk, has no business doing anything that involves wearing a badge. He used his position to be on a reality TV show. Simple as that!
I have been told that this event will never be aired on the "Wardens" reality TV show. The reason for that is this video will not only back up our (my brother and I) statements, it will show that this young warden had only one thing in mind and that was making his "bust" for the TV show. I've been told that the FWP would like to know what will make me happy. I have asked for private viewing of the UNEDITED VERSION of this event... with the warden, his supervisors, the director of FWP, my brother and I, and a reporter or two in the room. Let's get the truth out at last and put an end to the B.S. I have also been told by the owner/producer of "Muddy Boot Productions" (in my own home) that I would get a copy of the video or a link on line to see it. That has not happened. Videos have a number running through the frames so it will easy to see what and how much has been removed... if anything.
As for restitution, my license and expenses!... as I did not hunt in MT to bring back a set of horns. The other very distressing factor of this mess is what was taken from us as a family. It's something that can never be replaced... and even if it could, what value would you put on it, had it happened to you?
As late as this is on your forum, thanks for reading,
Jim
I gave respect with a prayer, discussed removal plan, took pictures, validated and tagged my elk and started field dressing. These were my actions "immediately" after dropping my elk.
That took 21 minutes according to the young warden.The warden and cameraman showed up 10 to 15 minutes later and that proof is recorded. I never knew I was being watched, or timed until I noticed two men wearing camouflage jackets, 100 yards away walking towards me. When they were closer, the warden raised his arm and identified himself. I waved back to them and in a good humored voice said, "Are you guys here to help me"? The reply was a "laugh". Then when the warden saw the 20 feet of open water that separated us he said... You know it's early and it's cold. I'm going to be out here all day and I really don't want to get wet and muddy right now. Will you bring me your tag? Already being wet to the waist, (and having no clue as to what was about to unfold) I said "Sure! I'm already wet". Then removed the tag from the frosted left antler and wadded across the water and handed it to him.
It's not my intention to debate the MT Hunting Regulations in this reply or to bad mouth wardens in general. My intent is to clear up a few statements that suggest I had some kind of intent to break the law... and a few comments that question my hunting ethics. And then to the comments which suggest that some kind of verbal abuse or arrogance on my part happened, or using my out-of-state status as an excuse is TOTALLY wrong. My only mention of how tagging is done in Minnesota was in reply to the warden's question... "So how do they do it in Minnesota"? When it was apparent he was confiscating my elk I asked, what will happen to it? He said "The head will be kept as evidence, the meat will be processed and frozen until the outcome of your court date". If that is common practice, why didn't it happen that way? Maybe because my bull rode around for 6 to 7 hours after being killed, in bright sun and 71 degree temperatures before arriving at a processor has something to do with it.
I've read hundreds of replies to my story, which 95% were written by hunters who can understand why this should have never happened. Yes, I was very excited to take this bull within the first few minutes of the 2014 season. Yes, according to the letter of the law, I should have tagged this elk when I reached it. But this is where my perception of immediately does not fit the punishment handed out by a "star struck", overzealous, and very unreasonable warden who has a severe lack of common sense.
Guess I shouldn't have felt the need to pray over the beautiful animal I just killed, or record this event with a few pictures. After 50 some years of hunting, 29 years in business as a guide on Lake Superior and never having a citation for a serious crime of any kind, I can assure those who doubt my hunting/fishing ethics are wrong in doing so. My interactions with the MN-DNR have always been on good terms and I won't let this incident sour my opinion on wardens (of any state) in general. With that being said, it's my opinion that the warden who took my elk, has no business doing anything that involves wearing a badge. He used his position to be on a reality TV show. Simple as that!
I have been told that this event will never be aired on the "Wardens" reality TV show. The reason for that is this video will not only back up our (my brother and I) statements, it will show that this young warden had only one thing in mind and that was making his "bust" for the TV show. I've been told that the FWP would like to know what will make me happy. I have asked for private viewing of the UNEDITED VERSION of this event... with the warden, his supervisors, the director of FWP, my brother and I, and a reporter or two in the room. Let's get the truth out at last and put an end to the B.S. I have also been told by the owner/producer of "Muddy Boot Productions" (in my own home) that I would get a copy of the video or a link on line to see it. That has not happened. Videos have a number running through the frames so it will easy to see what and how much has been removed... if anything.
As for restitution, my license and expenses!... as I did not hunt in MT to bring back a set of horns. The other very distressing factor of this mess is what was taken from us as a family. It's something that can never be replaced... and even if it could, what value would you put on it, had it happened to you?
As late as this is on your forum, thanks for reading,
Jim
Jim:
First of all - thank you for your side of story. After listening to your explanation of how things actually played out along with your request on what you desire to make this go away and the lack of response you have got I have to say that things do not look good from the warden or production side of things. I am just so sorry you and your brother had to be in the right place at the wrong time.
Let me just say that if 20 min is too long to tag an animal - there's a lot of members on this forum that are misfits.
Heck of a first time post - I truely hope it is not your last.
Keep your chin up.
First of all - thank you for your side of story. After listening to your explanation of how things actually played out along with your request on what you desire to make this go away and the lack of response you have got I have to say that things do not look good from the warden or production side of things. I am just so sorry you and your brother had to be in the right place at the wrong time.
Let me just say that if 20 min is too long to tag an animal - there's a lot of members on this forum that are misfits.
Heck of a first time post - I truely hope it is not your last.
Keep your chin up.
Jim,
You probably did the EXACT same thing that I'd have done had I shot that elk, and I'd gave been every bit as "guilty" as you. I'm sorry this had to happen to you, it sounds like it was the hunt of a lifetime with your brother up until the warden showed up.
I'd like nothing more than to see a post next year by you showing a nice bull and a freezer full of elk meat. But, I can understand if you decide not to give your hard earned money to the state of Montana from here on out, after what happened.
You probably did the EXACT same thing that I'd have done had I shot that elk, and I'd gave been every bit as "guilty" as you. I'm sorry this had to happen to you, it sounds like it was the hunt of a lifetime with your brother up until the warden showed up.
I'd like nothing more than to see a post next year by you showing a nice bull and a freezer full of elk meat. But, I can understand if you decide not to give your hard earned money to the state of Montana from here on out, after what happened.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
Jim,
Thanks for clearing a few things up. This is my first post on the subject because I didn't feel I knew enough.
Did you have the tag notched when asked for it. I know the tag was at that moment on the horns, but was it notched when you handed it to the warden?
I too rarely if ever notch my tag immediately. I do it after a little prayer and pictures.
Thanks for clearing a few things up. This is my first post on the subject because I didn't feel I knew enough.
Did you have the tag notched when asked for it. I know the tag was at that moment on the horns, but was it notched when you handed it to the warden?
I too rarely if ever notch my tag immediately. I do it after a little prayer and pictures.
I have also not commented on this until today but there are definetly 2 sides to this story. We have now heard both sides and assuming Jim is telling his side truthfully I would say our Montana law needs some clarification and/or simplification.
Let me give you a hypothetical situation. Hunter is out and about, gets into the elk, works his way closer, drops his pack that is carrying his water, knives, cloths, AND WALLET WITH TAG etc.. Works in closer - say another 8-900 yds, sends an arrow with good hit, elk run off. Hunter keeps eye on elk where it last disappeared, gives it a good half hour then proceeds cautiously until he finds said elk. Leaves his bow with downed elk and goes to retrieve his pack. By the letter of the law - he is way beyond guilty after this.
This whole scenario just stinks.
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