Tag welfare

[antelopedundee]

No, actually I believe they are mega expensice, 4k each.

The tag is $4K or the hunt package is $4K?

 

[hank4elk]

The NM E-Plus system was way overdue for change. Looks like it's working to me. More draw tags,less ranches(none that do not qualify),and a Habitat Incentive Program.
Any income from LO Authorazations is taxed. Many ranches are RO.

 

[MO Betta]

Transferrable LO tags should only be transferrable to family members, and should only be allowed on your property. If you want to recoup some or all of your cost for your efforts to improve habitat or tolerate wildlife on your land sell access in the form of leases or trespass fees.

One shot hunt is complete chit and needs to go in the dumpster.

Outfitter pools - ideally I would rather it be the client draws the tag, like any other hunter, in the general pool. Completely independent of the outfitting service. If someone wishes to use an outfitter for a tag they have drawn in the general pool I have zero problem with it.

Utah UDWR and the entities involved - Needs seriously reworked.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Yes, and in Oregon LOP tags are ONLY good on the owned property and cannot be used anywhere else. I personally have never sold a tag, I do get 2 and give one to my buddies to hunt with but only on my property. I cannot recoup any of my cost for what I do. That has been my argument for years. No tax break. My issues is and I know not everyone is the same and when I say this its blows up everyone on the site, but here goes. If we did not have private land owners we would NOT have the elk, deer, quail, grouse, antelope we have. We provide feed, shelter, water for them. This benefits EVERYONE and ODFW cannot afford to do it. I also have never pulled a bull tag for my land. I get one but I have always only put in for a cow tag to help with population and fill my freezer. I am a public hunter too, have bunch of points in Colorado, WY and Oregon. I put my money in like everyone else. My only issue is we tend to be able separate good public land hunters from the bad ones, but always have trouble separating good land owners from bad ones and think they are all evil.

Fair assessment.

 

[Ajax2744]

As far as LO tags the only ones I am familiar with is CO. I have friends who are ranchers and are awarded tags every year since they own thousands of acres. In CO you get vouchers and those vouchers can be either a regular tag or private land only tags. And they are either typically a or b tags which means if you get a landowner tag that is an a tag you can't get another a tag that year. You can give those vouchers to whoever you see fit. That being said all the people I know use them for themselves and there kids. But they also give them to kids who have never hunted and take them on their first hunt as well as veterans.

All of the ranchers I know hunt there own property out on the eastern plains for deer and antelope in units that are already mostly private land and some even sign up for walk in access for hunters. I actually don't know a single rancher that sells off there tags to try to make money. Although I'm sure that goes on quite often.

 

[Desk Pop]

Would you allow a special season for those landowners where elk are on their property but not generally on the property during the standard season? The property might be a summer feed zone or a winter rec every zone.

I wouldn't allow private land owners to auction tags for publicly held game animals at all if I had any say in it. It would slightly lessens the blow if the tags were only good on their property.

If in the above you are talking about culling there would not need to be a season, but I'd rather it be done on a depredation basis where hunters can do it. Idaho does this in some cases, but in others, the landowners won't allow it, but will allow F&G agents to cull, which is their choice....my gripe is that they won't allow access and but will certainly accept the checks for crop damage that are paid for with tag fees and taxes.

 

[Desk Pop]

Lots of things could piss off DIY hunters, but I am specifically talking about welfare. By that I mean public G&F dollars transferred directly to private parties. Or, an item of value granted by G&F to a private party that can be exchanged for cash.

Yes. Exactly. That is why I think these really piss off DIY hunters. It is a triple whammy. They are shitty practices and steal from public in the process....and rob opportunity.

 

[seeth07]

my gripe is that they won't allow access and but will certainly accept the checks for crop damage that are paid for with tag fees and taxes.

That is what is so great about the kentucky system. Its a win win win. State gets lands with habitat for elk that they don't have to manage, hunters get land to hunt that isn't public and landowners get a tag they can fill themselves or make money off of. Would be awesome to see western states adopt the same program

 

[nontyp]

I will say that the majority of the rank and file folks at the Utah DWR are good people and try to do their best. The problem is the Wildlife board. Our current board is made up of mostly SFW puppets. They do what they're told and toe the line.

I agree. I think Utah actually does an excellent job of wildlife and habitat management. Yes there is corruption at the top, but the guys on the ground seem to get things done.

 

[Desk Pop]

That is what is so great about the kentucky system. Its a win win win. State gets lands with habitat for elk that they don't have to manage, hunters get land to hunt that isn't public and landowners get a tag they can fill themselves or make money off of. Would be awesome to see western states adopt the same program

I am not familiar with Kentucky's system, but that sounds like a huge improvement over what we have in some states out west. I am all for quid pro quo within reason (which is what you are saying Kentucky is doing)...but out west the landowners simply expect compensation through cash or tags to sell just because wild animals live on their acreage. They basically would say their end of the bargain is that they have grass that animals eat.

As much as I rag on Idaho, they still have not gone the Utah route which I am happy about.

 

[Ajax2744]

Well

I am not familiar with Kentucky's system, but that sounds like a huge improvement over what we have in some states out west. I am all for quid pro quo within reason (which is what you are saying Kentucky is doing)...but out west the landowners simply expect compensation through cash or tags to sell just because wild animals live on their acreage. They basically would say their end of the bargain is that they have grass that animals eat.

As much as I rag on Idaho, they still have not gone the Utah route which I am happy about.

As devil's advocate it's more like grass, water (in the form of stock tanks or creeks/rivers) and sanctuary. Landowners aren't all evil and do a lot of good for the overall well being of wild animals.
I do think landowner tag systems could have a restructure in most states but to say all landowners are out to just make profit off the tag they are given and do nothing for wild animals is a little off in my opinion. From my anecdotale experiences with people I know that receive landowner tags, for the ranches they own, is most end up given to immediate family, new hunters (kids and there parent), and veterans.

 

[Desk Pop]

Well
As devil's advocate it's more like grass, water (in the form of stock tanks or creeks/rivers) and sanctuary. Landowners aren't all evil and do a lot of good for the overall well being of wild animals.
I do think landowner tag systems could have a restructure in most states but to say all landowners are out to just make profit off the tag they are given and do nothing for wild animals is a little off in my opinion. From my anecdotale experiences with people I know that receive landowner tags, for the ranches they own, is most end up given to immediate family, new hunters (kids and there parent), and veterans.

Yes, I get that it is more than grass and that is a legitimate point. I have no problem with game departments giving a reasonable amount of tags to landowners for them and family members.

I personally draw the line when it becomes a business and they are sold to the highest bidder. Landowner tags in some units can get $20,000+. That, in my opinion, is incongruous with the spirit of the North American conservation model where game is held in public trust.

It can also snowball into massive eff-ups like Utah where a HUGE amount of really nice tags are auctioned to the highest bidder. Again, in moderation, I have no problem with a few auction tags per state, but in Idaho it seems a constant battle between commissioners (who are attempting to honor public input that Idahoans do not want more auction tags) and the legislature who push for us to offer more (who want more money coming in.)

Landowners are not evil and are crucial for management. I do think that some states have gone too far in the this for that. Many landowners want to give a tiny little "this," for a huge "that," from the game departments.

 

[Pucky Freak]

Thanks to everyone who shared their opinions on this subject. I set the poll to close tomorrow.

 

[Trial153]

I voted for all of the above...

 

[Gila]

I have a problem with unit wide LO tags. You look at who owns most of the Elk terriitory in Colorado and it's big LLCs and holding companies in NYC.

 

[jlmatthew]

I see a lot of Utah bashing, but does any state give out more landowner tags than Colorado? 20% of the quota west of I-25 and 25% east of I-25

 

[OverlordBear]

I think the writing is on the wall, in my lifetime hunting will be for only the rich. It would behoove anyone wanting to continue to sport to start a long term savings plan to help afford them opportunity once these plans come to fruition.

 

[Buffs35]

I think the writing is on the wall, in my lifetime hunting will be for only the rich. It would behoove anyone wanting to continue to sport to start a long term savings plan to help afford them opportunity once these plans come to fruition.

Or buy some land during the next recession. Still kicking myself on a couple missed opportunities.

 

[Trial153]

Make no mistake about it there are hunters and groups among us that wouldn't shed a tear if every tag was somehow on the market