Suspend Pittman-Robertson Federal Excise Tax?

[Deleted member 18333]

There should be a rule that if you file chapter 11 twice in a five year period, you should win some type of trophy, at least for finding someone stupid enough to loan you money again. Unless you are Argentina.
When the government gives out money, everyone gets in line. A deferral simply buys a little time. I hope it works.

Far too often the executives are given a trophy in the form of bonuses since they where the only ones smart enough to guide them through the difficult bankruptcy process.

 

[Big Fin]

When the government gives out money, everyone gets in line.........

Ain't that the truth......

‘It’s a complete abomination’ says Wall Street money manager about hedge funds applying for bailouts from small-business recovery funds

The Bloomberg News article makes the case that hedge funds, which tend to charge 2% fees for managing other people’s money and take 20% of the profits from...

www.marketwatch.com

 

[SAJ-99]

Ain't that the truth......

‘It’s a complete abomination’ says Wall Street money manager about hedge funds applying for bailouts from small-business recovery funds

The Bloomberg News article makes the case that hedge funds, which tend to charge 2% fees for managing other people’s money and take 20% of the profits from...

www.marketwatch.com

Can we ask if you applied? Feel free not to answer, but I don't fault anyone for doing it or not doing it. If you are running a small business and have employees, someone could argue there is a morale obligation apply, if only to stabilize the business for a few months. I don't even fault the HFs for applying, but only because 'Why Not?'.

 

[Big Fin]

Can we ask if you applied? Feel free not to answer, but I don't fault anyone for doing it or not doing it. If you are running a small business and have employees, someone could argue there is a morale obligation apply, if only to stabilize the business for a few months. I don't even fault the HFs for applying, but only because 'Why Not?'.

Happy to answer and apologize for the diversion my comment might have caused for this thread.

Yup, I applied for this little LLC known as On Your Own Adventures. I'll do all I can to keep the eight employees here, working and getting paychecks. If this program allows me to keep some of them working when there are delays of revenue or loss of revenues, I'll do that.

I'm already far down the path of contingency plans, as I have not yet heard from my bank and supposedly the program will be out of money by Friday. I don't want to go back to loaning operating money to this operation as I did for the first ten years, but if I have to, I will. That will be the most likely outcome. I never laid off an employee in my other businesses and I don't intend to do that here, unless I run out of alternatives.

I am luckier than most small business owners in that this is not my livelihood. I have no personal debt and no business debt. This is a barebones low overhead operation that has already adjusted for large disruptions in our contracted cash flow streams. The only money I get out of this business is a small amount of rent for my office space I own, something that has little consequence to my personal finances. I plan to eliminate that rent payment, lowering overhead and reallocating to payroll. I can do some financial gymnastics in my personal life to keep the doors open and the employees paid, a benefit some others may not have at their disposal. A financial/capital benefit every HF I am aware of has and has in spades.

CPAs are assisting many small businesses submit their loan requests. So far, none I know of have received any proceeds. The line is long and I suspect being in the back of the line is not beneficial. If I end up too far in the back of the line, no big deal. I'll figure out a way to make it work.

If HFs get through the line before folks on the other end of that spectrum and the trough is empty when the small folks get there, I think the days of HF keeping their cozy tax benefits will come to an end. That is why we read of other HF managers discouraging such. They know the optics are not good and the risk of losing their sweetheart tax benefits is far more costly than the benefit of some of the small crumb short-term loans. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. They run the risk of looking hog-ish.

I agree with some of the comments in the cited article and I do have a problem with HF's applying. They already have some of the most favorable tax treatment in the entire tax code. If they were break-even operations paying taxes the same way as small businesses, I would have a different outlook. If they help drain the fund before small businesses get to the front of the line, I have an even bigger problem with it.

 

[Bambistew]

My comprehension is awful, but isn't the tax paid upon the purchase? If so, how would this save companies money?

 

[VikingsGuy]

My comprehension is awful, but isn't the tax paid upon the purchase? If so, how would this save companies money?

In normal situations, they have some period of time holding the funds between the time of collection and the time of payment. This change apparently allows them to keep this already collected cash for an extended period of time, presumably serving as temporary working capital. But that means they will be spending the money - to pay bills, wages, etc. If they don't rebound enough to eventually replenish these funds, the government will lose them permanently. A bad precedent in my view.

 

[SAJ-99]

Happy to answer and apologize for the diversion my comment might have caused for this thread.

Yup, I applied for this little LLC known as On Your Own Adventures. I'll do all I can to keep the eight employees here, working and getting paychecks. If this program allows me to keep some of them working when there are delays of revenue or loss of revenues, I'll do that.

I'm already far down the path of contingency plans, as I have not yet heard from my bank and supposedly the program will be out of money by Friday. I don't want to go back to loaning operating money to this operation as I did for the first ten years, but if I have to, I will. That will be the most likely outcome. I never laid off an employee in my other businesses and I don't intend to do that here, unless I run out of alternatives.

I am luckier than most small business owners in that this is not my livelihood. I have no personal debt and no business debt. This is a barebones low overhead operation that has already adjusted for large disruptions in our contracted cash flow streams. The only money I get out of this business is a small amount of rent for my office space I own, something that has little consequence to my personal finances. I plan to eliminate that rent payment, lowering overhead and reallocating to payroll. I can do some financial gymnastics in my personal life to keep the doors open and the employees paid, a benefit some others may not have at their disposal. A financial/capital benefit every HF I am aware of has and has in spades.

CPAs are assisting many small businesses submit their loan requests. So far, none I know of have received any proceeds. The line is long and I suspect being in the back of the line is not beneficial. If I end up too far in the back of the line, no big deal. I'll figure out a way to make it work.

If HFs get through the line before folks on the other end of that spectrum and the trough is empty when the small folks get there, I think the days of HF keeping their cozy tax benefits will come to an end. That is why we read of other HF managers discouraging such. They know the optics are not good and the risk of losing their sweetheart tax benefits is far more costly than the benefit of some of the small crumb short-term loans. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. They run the risk of looking hog-ish.

I agree with some of the comments in the cited article and I do have a problem with HF's applying. They already have some of the most favorable tax treatment in the entire tax code. If they were break-even operations paying taxes the same way as small businesses, I would have a different outlook. If they help drain the fund before small businesses get to the front of the line, I have an even bigger problem with it.

You make solid arguments against some of the financial companies. I agree it is ridiculous but my view is when the government throws these programs together that don't have any parameters, then its a free for all. I talked to someone that applied for and received funds but have heard a lot of the same delays you pointed out. I suspect there will be another program because this one was too small to begin with.

Side note: Your decades of experience in western hunting is valuable. Ever thought about selling some "scouting reviews" for specific zones? A certain $ amount if you haven't hunted it and more if you had. Escouting could give the crew something to do - map out OnX waypoints and potential areas to hunt. Just brainstorming and haven't thought through it, and I know the policy has been to not reveal units or specific locations, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

 

[WyoDoug]

I would favor suspending a lot of fuel related taxes permanently. About 90% of the cost of your gas, especially with diesel is taxes at both state and federal level.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I would favor suspending a lot of fuel related taxes permanently. About 90% of the cost of your gas, especially with diesel is taxes at both state and federal level.

The real pressing issue is rent/mortgage payments for the tens of millions with lost income. In the big picture gas taxes are a drop in the bucket for most Americans.

 

[SAJ-99]

I would favor suspending a lot of fuel related taxes permanently. About 90% of the cost of your gas, especially with diesel is taxes at both state and federal level.

One person’s tax is another person’s salary. This seems to be forgotten a lot. The government doesn’t set the money on fire. That was Big Fins point on the revenue collected here.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I would favor suspending a lot of fuel related taxes permanently. About 90% of the cost of your gas, especially with diesel is taxes at both state and federal level.

Huh... you know I haven’t met many people who actually come out and say they like pot holes, first for everything I guess.

There are absolutely places where we need tax reform, but PR and gas taxes are IMHO some of the most effective structures we have.

 

[runningmt]

Saw this today. Apologies if it has already been posted. Thoughts?

Sounds like a really, really bad idea. Even if it was done, is the tax really a hindrance for a gun or ammo purchaser? Unlikely! Maybe some Tea-baggers might argue, but they’ve been in hiding for four years anyway.

 

[warmer]

Happy to answer and apologize for the diversion my comment might have caused for this thread.

Yup, I applied for this little LLC known as On Your Own Adventures. I'll do all I can to keep the eight employees here, working and getting paychecks. If this program allows me to keep some of them working when there are delays of revenue or loss of revenues, I'll do that.

I'm already far down the path of contingency plans, as I have not yet heard from my bank and supposedly the program will be out of money by Friday. I don't want to go back to loaning operating money to this operation as I did for the first ten years, but if I have to, I will. That will be the most likely outcome. I never laid off an employee in my other businesses and I don't intend to do that here, unless I run out of alternatives.

I am luckier than most small business owners in that this is not my livelihood. I have no personal debt and no business debt. This is a barebones low overhead operation that has already adjusted for large disruptions in our contracted cash flow streams. The only money I get out of this business is a small amount of rent for my office space I own, something that has little consequence to my personal finances. I plan to eliminate that rent payment, lowering overhead and reallocating to payroll. I can do some financial gymnastics in my personal life to keep the doors open and the employees paid, a benefit some others may not have at their disposal. A financial/capital benefit every HF I am aware of has and has in spades.

CPAs are assisting many small businesses submit their loan requests. So far, none I know of have received any proceeds. The line is long and I suspect being in the back of the line is not beneficial. If I end up too far in the back of the line, no big deal. I'll figure out a way to make it work.

If HFs get through the line before folks on the other end of that spectrum and the trough is empty when the small folks get there, I think the days of HF keeping their cozy tax benefits will come to an end. That is why we read of other HF managers discouraging such. They know the optics are not good and the risk of losing their sweetheart tax benefits is far more costly than the benefit of some of the small crumb short-term loans. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. They run the risk of looking hog-ish.

I agree with some of the comments in the cited article and I do have a problem with HF's applying. They already have some of the most favorable tax treatment in the entire tax code. If they were break-even operations paying taxes the same way as small businesses, I would have a different outlook. If they help drain the fund before small businesses get to the front of the line, I have an even bigger problem with it.

I'm a small business owner with 5 full time employees. Our revenue is in the tank right now, worst I've been through in my 26 years in business. I applied April 7 and loan was finalized yesterday, April 15.

 

[Irrelevant]

I would favor suspending a lot of fuel related taxes permanently. About 90% of the cost of your gas, especially with diesel is taxes at both state and federal level.

Does WY post this on the fuel pumps? Because WA does, and while taxes are very high, they are no where near 90%. When last I bought gas it was still around $3/gal, of that 0.494/gal state tax and either 0.184 or 0.244/gal is federal tax (gas vs diesel).

 

[WyoDoug]

Does WY post this on the fuel pumps? Because WA does, and while taxes are very high, they are no where near 90%. When last I bought gas it was still around $3/gal, of that 0.494/gal state tax and either 0.184 or 0.244/gal is federal tax (gas vs diesel).

Nope. Many states do not. People have no idea what percentage of the gas is tax. They do have a little sticker in some places that says how much per gallon of gas it taxes. I think taxes should be shown on the gas receipts. If they must tax, it needs to be transparent.

 

[madtom]

Nope. Many states do not. People have no idea what percentage of the gas is tax. They do have a little sticker in some places that says how much per gallon of gas it taxes. I think taxes should be shown on the gas receipts. If they must tax, it needs to be transparent.

Or you could look it up on your phone while you're waiting for the tank to fill.

 

[rmauch20]

“In case you missed it there are some pretty extenuating circumstances happening right now, in other words it might make your argument a bit thin.”

 

[Northwoods Labs]

Yea, not a fan of this, slippery slope. I can definitely see the ultimate loser in this being state agencies and conservation

 

[Sytes]

For MT, how does this affect our law enforcement branch if P&R funding is held off, to hopefully reimburse later?
Not a fan to begin with and surprised a watchdog org hasn't brought the spotlight on LEO actions that... Nevermind. I'm sure FWP ensures it's well within compliance.

Would the state assume the funding for LEO's or are they sidelined to part time pay, etc?

 

[westbranch]

Happy to answer and apologize for the diversion my comment might have caused for this thread.

Yup, I applied for this little LLC known as On Your Own Adventures. I'll do all I can to keep the eight employees here, working and getting paychecks. If this program allows me to keep some of them working when there are delays of revenue or loss of revenues, I'll do that.

I'm already far down the path of contingency plans, as I have not yet heard from my bank and supposedly the program will be out of money by Friday. I don't want to go back to loaning operating money to this operation as I did for the first ten years, but if I have to, I will. That will be the most likely outcome. I never laid off an employee in my other businesses and I don't intend to do that here, unless I run out of alternatives.

I am luckier than most small business owners in that this is not my livelihood. I have no personal debt and no business debt. This is a barebones low overhead operation that has already adjusted for large disruptions in our contracted cash flow streams. The only money I get out of this business is a small amount of rent for my office space I own, something that has little consequence to my personal finances. I plan to eliminate that rent payment, lowering overhead and reallocating to payroll. I can do some financial gymnastics in my personal life to keep the doors open and the employees paid, a benefit some others may not have at their disposal. A financial/capital benefit every HF I am aware of has and has in spades.

CPAs are assisting many small businesses submit their loan requests. So far, none I know of have received any proceeds. The line is long and I suspect being in the back of the line is not beneficial. If I end up too far in the back of the line, no big deal. I'll figure out a way to make it work.

If HFs get through the line before folks on the other end of that spectrum and the trough is empty when the small folks get there, I think the days of HF keeping their cozy tax benefits will come to an end. That is why we read of other HF managers discouraging such. They know the optics are not good and the risk of losing their sweetheart tax benefits is far more costly than the benefit of some of the small crumb short-term loans. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. They run the risk of looking hog-ish.

I agree with some of the comments in the cited article and I do have a problem with HF's applying. They already have some of the most favorable tax treatment in the entire tax code. If they were break-even operations paying taxes the same way as small businesses, I would have a different outlook. If they help drain the fund before small businesses get to the front of the line, I have an even bigger problem with it.

I am CPA at a local CPA firm, we have had dozens and dozens of clients apply for the PPP loans. Quite a few approvals, only one getting actual funding as of Tuesday. A couple more since then I think. Last week some clients were part way through the process and got shut down because their bank hit their limits on funds/applications. So they had to scramble to find another bank willing to work with them. Some clients applying do not necessarily "need" the funds, but want to get in line so they don't miss out on it. Medical industry clients received some large medicare payments by direct deposit last week that came before they even knew what it was for, but just another thing added to the CAREs act we hadn't been familiar with yet.

I also know people first hand who are working reduced hours who applied for and started receiving the extra $600/week in unemployment benefits. So now they are getting 20%-50% more than their regular wage. Also, no taxes being withheld on the extra unemployment so a lot of folks going to be surprised by a tax bill.