Straight walled cartridges

Nick87

Nick87

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Well sounds like Illinois passed law, in 2023 were going to be able to use straight walled cartridges for deer. I'm probably going to make the switch. Not that I'll be able to shoot further but ammo will be easier. Can't always find the same slugs and it becomes a pain especially nowadays. So I'm thinking 45-70 or maybe .444 Marlin. Probably just be a barrel for my T/C Encore. Sure wouldn't mind a lever gun though. Thoughts? Experience?
 
444 is a sweet shooter. 45/70 and 450 are basically equivalent with each other. Of the 3 its easiest to get ammo for 45/70.

I prefer traditional flat point bullets over the gummy tips and I plan to reload for all three to never have to worry about ammo.

Plan to use Hodgdon 4198.

Be advised the gummy tips may use slightly shorter cases than traditional flat nose bullets.
 
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I like the Winchester big bore 375 , it fairly flat shooting and 200 grain bullet is a killer. Hopefully Win gets the new gain in popularity with straight wall cartridges and gets more ammo out there!
 
I’ve both gummies & flats for the 1895 45/70. Both print well. The Hornady FTX gums hit pigs hard. Have only shot the Steinel flats at paper.
 
Ill be moving to a rifle as well for the same reasons. I havent been able to find my sabots for 2 years now. And im tired of paying $5 per round. Im going with the 350 legend. Basically a .223 case without the neck. Id be careful on what you buy as it has to be a single shot. My understanding is that you could use a bolt action rifle as long as you dont have a magazine on you. They make an AR style magazine called a bob sled that only allows one round for loading. The ruger american has an AR style magazine so im leaning toward that. Not many options out there. Franchi momentum and winchester xpr are also on my list. Henry has a break action single shot that looks nice. There are others like the savage axis and mossberg but i dont like those. There are only economy rifles chambered for this round. Im holding out for a little while to see if tikka or browning end up chambering for the 350 legend. There are AR options as well if thats your thing.
 
The law...

Replaces everything after the enacting clause. Amends the Wildlife Code. Defines "centerfire" and "single shot". Allows a person to take deer with a single shot centerfire rifle during the open season set by the Director of Natural Resources. Limits legal handguns and rifles to centerfire handguns that are either single shot or revolvers and centerfire rifles that are single shot. Limits legal ammunition for a centerfire handgun or rifle to a bottleneck centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber or larger with a case length not exceeding one and two-fifths inches, or a straight-walled centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber or larger, both of which must be available as a factory load with the published ballistic tables of the manufacturer showing a capability of at least 500 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. Provides that it is unlawful while deer hunting: (1) to possess or be in close proximity to a rifle that is not centerfire; or (2) be in possession of or in close proximity to a magazine that is capable of making a rifle not a single shot.
 
So the way its worded a tube style fed levergun would be illegal but a magazine fed levergun would be legal.
 
nick87 said:
Well sounds like Illinois passed law, in 2023 were going to be able to use straight walled cartridges for deer. I'm probably going to make the switch. Not that I'll be able to shoot further but ammo will be easier. Can't always find the same slugs and it becomes a pain especially nowadays. So I'm thinking 45-70 or maybe .444 Marlin. Probably just be a barrel for my T/C Encore. Sure wouldn't mind a lever gun though. Thoughts? Experience?
Click to expand...
Seeing as I am still breathing, I have an experience and opinion, of course. My apologies in advance. Not sure how useful it is to you, but from my perspective, there are really only two serious "rifle" caliber choices, and if there are special write-ins for "pistol" cartridges like the .38-40 and .44-40, those would be fine too. But back to the "rifle" cartridges. Unless you are looking for an "also elk/moose rifle", I would opt for the .38-55. It is a wonderfully efficient round with all the punch you need, relatively low recoil, lighter rifle, and more abundant as a vintage rifle. Also easily made by reboring from a .30-30 or .32 Sp, .32-40 (another very good choice as a straight-walled deer cartridge). The .38-55 will be a fine 200+ yd deer rifle with black or smokeless. Lots of brass, lots of bullets and molds, and great with the One True Black (or that other, pale powder). Marlin 1893s and 93s don't grow on trees, but they are plenty abundant. I've used my .38-55 1893 Marlin to kill a few antelope. It's an excellent choice for that and somehow extra appropriate when roaming around the West.

I can't see any reason to consider a .444. I also don't know much about them, but why they even exist in the presence of the .45-70 is lost on me. With a .45-70, what more could you possibly want? I rebuilt a badly bubba'ed 1895 Marlin to make mine. There is some confusion about 1895 Marlins - there are two, and they are fairly different. The original (only about 5000 made) has a square bolt, and it is a fairly large and heavy rifle. It can also handle a .45-90, if you want to go that way. The modern Marlin 1895 is really just a relabled 336 Marlin. At one time, there was a fair bit of noise on the interweb that in .45-70 caliber, they could crack their frames between the barrel channel and the magazine tube channel. I don't know how big of a deal this really is, but you might want to research it, if looking at a "modern" 1895.

So far, I've used my 1895 to shoot a doe antelope, and I've taken it for Alaskan bbears, but never uncased it. Punching big holes lets lots of air in and lots of blood out. Always a good thing. A bit overkill for deer, but why not? Does need a bit more space down range though (I think Iowa may have reconsidered its legality in our 'straight wall' rifle list, for this reason). Brass and bullets for the .45-70 nearly grows on trees. You can find anything you need with ease. It's a great hunting rifle for as far out as you are skilled to shoot, and big enough for anything you will hunt on this continent. Its only down side is that it is a bit heavy and vintage 1895s are hard to find (thus often costly).

Marlins have some advantages over Winchesters in my opinion. They are drop-dead simple rifles that take down in seconds with just a screwdriver. That makes them easy to clean from the breech (nice when shooting The One True Black) and replace parts in seconds. They have very simple and tunable trigger groups (especially the vintage rifles). Marlins are also a titch cheaper.

Down either path, I would opt for a 26" barrel (very common) but shorter and a few longer barrels exist in vintage rifles. Expect to pay more for the extra longs. Lots of guys like carbines. I'm not one of them.

Tang sights are ideal on these rifles. If you choose the proper, safe, tang sight, you can set it for something like 180 or 200 yds and leave the barrel sights set for 100. A flick of your thumb is all that it takes to switch from one to the other with the rifle on your shoulder.


1895 Marlin. Not mine - yet .
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And then there are the singleshots.... Have you considered going there? They are the finest rifles ever made in America.

okay, I'll be quiet now... :)
 
I'd do a T/C barrel in 350 Legend or 357 Maximum. Leaning toward Max after playing with a Henry single snot in 357 Mag that I had reamed to 357 Max. Its a beast and fun. But, brass is harder to come by, and at its hottest loading its still around what basic 350 Legend is. I'd say 45/70 is an awesome choice too.
 
I was gonna vote lever, the Henry’s are nice and you can still find a marlin (you’ll pay for it) but it sounds like those are out.

I had one of the CVA scouts in 45-70. It was as accurate as any 45-70 I’ve shot just not very pretty. They’re affordable tho and sounds like a good fit for this situation. A friend of mine had one of the H&R handi rifles in 444, that was a deer hammer
 
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