South East Montana - Custer National Forest

[MiStickSlinger]

I'll be one of the ones braving the "crowds" this year in southeast Montana. I've hunted a lot of states and places where people tell me how crowded my hunt will be. Coming from Michigan, I find it laughable what many people's definition of "pressure" is. Maybe it will be a zoo, but thanks to Randy I actually have some direction in my scouting. Being that there is a quota on the tags and they do sell out every year, I find it hard to believe a handful of these youtube videos will make that noticeable of an impact.

 

[BlakeA]

If it wasn't for Randy, I wouldn't have jumped into half of the adventures I have had. I live a long ways away from any elk, mule deer, and antelope. His platforms have helped me immensely. Region 7 has been getting more and more popular for years well before Randy has posted any videos or podcasts about it. It has been a circus in many areas for years and with as many recent threads on other forums about it, I'm guessing it will be another busy year there. I myself have promoted the region to a lot of people where I live. Why? Because as a non resident paying $627 for a deer tag I want them to have a good experience. Whether you are "trophy" hunting or not, Region 7 is an absolute blast to hunt. Beautiful country and a lot of animals. There are a lot of non residents that have a lot invested in a hunt to come out to MT and fill a deer tag so why not try and help them have a good experience? The Custer National Forest 2017 hunting festival will be a circus again this year but there is still plenty of places to hunt and get away from people. I'm sure I will make it down there again myself some weekend this fall.

 

[BlakeA]

I understand your guys' view, but without what I have learned from Randy and his media outlets, I wouldn't be going on a DIY Mule Deer hunt in MT. I am sorry your spots are getting over hunted and I will find a different area, but I am still happy to have a resource like this.

No need to find a new area. There will be other hunters but believe me there is PLENTY of places to hunt and PLENTY of animals! You will have a fun hunt for sure!

 

[Ben Lamb]

You SOB's need to shut up and dance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcWPiHjIExA

 

[JohnCushman]

I understand your guys' view, but without what I have learned from Randy and his media outlets, I wouldn't be going on a DIY Mule Deer hunt in MT. I am sorry your spots are getting over hunted and I will find a different area, but I am still happy to have a resource like this.

Don't find a different area. They are YOUR public lands to utilize as well. There is plenty of space to hunt for everyone. From what it sounds like, region 7 tags don't sell out, so it must not be that much of a circus if you can get away from the roads and crowds. I sometimes feel my antelope area at home gets pressured, but I still invite my friends and some hunt talkers to come here to hunt with me, because they are PUBLIC lands, and I can help them have a positive experience. I have to thank Randy for his resourse via TV, youtube, pod casts and this site...otherwise I'd never see myself hunting deer in Montana, but I'll be there this year...IN REGION 7. I don't see the point in kicking him in the nuts for giving people a direction in which to start to come out West and have a positive experience, wherever he's talked about. A lot of people get intimidated and confused about the drawing systems out west and he gives people a starting point...what's the harm?

 

[Hunting Wife]

If you do a google search for "hunting SE Montana", Randy's stuff doesn't even show up on the first three pages of search results (Sorry Randy). Not sure why he's getting all the flack for something that has clearly been a trend for several years now, and which is being driven by other high-profile events. Seems like people just don't know who else to bitch at.

I see the method to Randy's madness, and I hope he keeps it up. If we want to be exclusive about who can enjoy opportunities on public land, we'll probably all find ourselves in the excluded group sooner rather than later.

 

[whiskeydog]

I don't have an issue with Randy doing a show and mentioning that SE MT is a good destination for a hunt. What I have a problem with is the constant social media "ads" that I see every single day with Randy continually pushing the issue. Randy, you can say you do this for other areas in other states as well, but there is no hunt that you have pushed as hard for a specific location as you have for this place.

If you're coming from out of state to hunt SE MT, don't forget to pick up your doe tags as well! Make sure you kill as many as you can.

 

[8andcounting]

I don't have an issue with Randy doing a show and mentioning that SE MT is a good destination for a hunt. What I have a problem with is the constant social media "ads" that I see every single day with Randy continually pushing the issue. Randy, you can say you do this for other areas in other states as well, but there is no hunt that you have pushed as hard for a specific location as you have for this place.

If you're coming from out of state to hunt SE MT, don't forget to pick up your doe tags as well! Make sure you kill as many as you can.

I would say most of the overcrowding in region 7 is from residents not NRs , and bet you more residents have b tags than NR

 

[Big Fin]

I don't have an issue with Randy doing a show and mentioning that SE MT is a good destination for a hunt. What I have a problem with is the constant social media "ads" that I see every single day with Randy continually pushing the issue. Randy, you can say you do this for other areas in other states as well, but there is no hunt that you have pushed as hard for a specific location as you have for this place.

If you're coming from out of state to hunt SE MT, don't forget to pick up your doe tags as well! Make sure you kill as many as you can.

First of all, we're not the group buying those ads you see. Those ad buys come from Montana Tourism; that is what their agency is charged with doing as a manner of promoting rural tourism. They can promote it how they want, when they want, and if I was them, that is exactly what I would be doing for places that don't have ski resorts, national parks, or other higher profile destinations. I produce the content and distribute it on our channels. Now that those channels are large digital platforms of YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram, it is very easy for groups to buy ads around our content, whether companies or government agencies. They buy those ads from Google and Facebook.

There was no complaining by folks who hunt SE Montana when we did these two episodes that were part of a similar project. These two episodes were promoting deer hunting in SW Montana. We did these for Montana Tourism to promote hunting as Tourism.

If we had the Facebook and YouTube presence at the times, you would have seen Tourism and other groups buying ads around these episodes. Those were in Southwest Montana, in places people know I hunt regularly. I heard zero complaints from folks who hunt Southeast Montana who are now complaining.

https://youtu.be/Qp9UkdEMAAs?list=PLLdxutimd-JsfXPmK512HmN6OdCL45N58

https://youtu.be/el7S71b2ukg?list=PLLdxutimd-JsfXPmK512HmN6OdCL45N58



When we did these episodes for Colorado Tourism, I am sure you would have seen the same ad buying if we had the social media and YouTube channels around which Colorado Tourism could have bought ads.

https://youtu.be/Npzw32vmpvI?list=PLLdxutimd-JuVK3J_Tir9GTx90QMzlfO6

https://youtu.be/5qouleZVHJA?list=PLLdxutimd-JuVK3J_Tir9GTx90QMzlfO6

https://youtu.be/IvryXJhAEuI?list=PLLdxutimd-JuVK3J_Tir9GTx90QMzlfO6

https://youtu.be/8iJ4yAXP4NQ?list=PLLdxutimd-JuVK3J_Tir9GTx90QMzlfO6

https://youtu.be/AV6RtRj3eX8?list=PLLdxutimd-JuVK3J_Tir9GTx90QMzlfO6


When we did all the hunts in Arizona this year and worked with AZ G&F to show people how to hunt birds, use their non-resident license to hunt OTC deer, how to get archery javelina tags, none of the folks who hunt SE Montana were complaining about it. I expect their Tourism agencies to buy ads around the dove video when it gets closer. I expect their Tourism agencies to buy ads around the other content as it gets closer to January.

Wyoming Tourism groups were interested in buying ads around our digital content, but due to budget cuts, those groups did not. I told them to go ahead and buy all the ads they want. The more ads they buy, the more views our content gets, the more hunters learn of the possibilities that are out there and find some ideas of how to hunt those locations.

The expansion of our platforms to digital distribution is going to result in a lot more of this content and I expect a lot more ad buying from state agencies. This is not the last of what you will see of us showing people how to do these hunts, in many places. I told folks that when we first posted these videos in February. Not sure what to say to the guys who are so protective of Southeast Montana. Southeast Montana deer hunting is hardly the first hunt I've ever promoted as a great non-resident opportunity and will certainly not be the last.

 

[whiskeydog]

I would say most of the overcrowding in region 7 is from residents not NRs , and bet you more residents have b tags than NR

You are likely correct on both. It's easy to get there from Billings for a weekend hunt. I buy a doe tag every year and haven't used it in ~4 years or so. It's been several years since I hunted SE MT...I have been considering getting back down there with the good winters we had lately, but with the attention the area got this year between this, the big elk, and combined with the rough winter, I'll likely be headed back to my other spot.

 

[BigHornRam]

Randy,

Keep it on the down low, but elk hunting East of West Yellowstone is awesome as well!
If you are over the target you get a lot of flack. I think you are over the target.

 

[whiskeydog]

If we had the Facebook and YouTube presence at the times, you would have seen Tourism and other groups buying ads around these episodes. Those were in Southwest Montana, in places people know I hunt regularly. I heard zero complaints from folks who hunt Southeast Montana who are now complaining.

Fair enough. This time around, at least in my opinion, the promoting of the area seems much more "targeted" than anything that has been done in the past. I do appreciate everything you do for hunting and access. I also, like you, think that we should all strive to help other hunters out when we can. I just wish you had been promoting MT as a whole and not a specific area. For those who want to, it's not hard to figure the rest out on their own. In full disclosure, I haven't even hunted the area in several years. I'd been considering going back this year, but I'll give it a couple years now to hopefully cool down.

 

[bobbydean]

Hunters biggest problem is there is not enough of us.

On any issue on public lands and hunting, the general public has the hunter way overmanned.

I have had bullets hit within feet of me. Scary as hell.

Big Fin needs to upraised to hero status to encourage new hunters.

Choose to hunt the ZOO units or elsewhere. We need more hunters; just not in my unit!

 

[Gerald Martin]

Tempest in a teapot here for the folks giving Randy grief over highlighting certain regions that he hunt and helping others figure out the logistics of making their own hunt happen. I last hunted the Custer in 2012 and there were plenty of people driving the roads back then as well.

N.R. deer license numbers have been capped at the same amount for a long time so there isn't going to be a huge increase of N.R.s who buy a tag and hunt the Custer or surrounding areas. Given it's rural setting and lack of overall human population, I bet the ratio of hunters/deer and hunting pressure is less in region seven than it is in areas around population centers such as Bozeman or Billings. Southeast Montana has been a popular deer hunting destination for many years now and will continue to be in the future.

I'm mad because that dude shot a new world record elk in one of the units that takes a 900 tag to archery hunt in. It is almost certain that the resulting publicity of that event will make the 900 tag so popular that I won't be able to draw it as a second choice this year.

I'm mad because FWP made Unit 324 an either sex hunt for the entire season last year and opening day in the Ruby Valley was like a Mad Max/Carnival with guns. There must have been over 100 camps and 500 people in that valley for opening weekend. (never mind the fact that by Wed of opening week there were only 20 camps left)

I'm mad because the Missouri Breaks have a reputation of producing large bulls and that makes it very difficult to draw a rifle tag for the unit I would like to hunt.

I'm mad because several units in the Bitterroots are known to produce large bucks and an ammunition manufacturer that drew the mule deer governor's tag plastered reward posters for information about where he could find a big buck.

I'm mad because wolves ate all the elk in Region 1 and it has gotten a reputation for being a good place to hunt black bears.

I'm mad because the Forest Service/BLM is closing all the road that have been open since Lewis and Clark sailed up the Missouri. Now I can't access all the land the same way Grannie and Gramps used to.

I'm mad because there is too much snow where I wanted to go pheasant hunting next year.

I'm mad because Randy produced a video showing how delicious muskrats are and now the wolves are going to find out and wipe out all the muskrats in Montana.

I'm mad because it is raining today and I want to see some sunshine....


My prediction is that for every new hunter that is inspired to hunt region 7 because of the added publicity, there will be a hunter who sees the same publicity and decides to focus their efforts elsewhere.

My prediction is that whoever is hunting, the majority will still drive the roads and hope to see a shooter from the comfort of their rig.

My prediction is that the people who leave the rig a daylight and walk more than two miles will see the same amount of hunters and the same amount of deer they always did.

 

[Zach]

Don't find a different area. They are YOUR public lands to utilize as well. There is plenty of space to hunt for everyone. From what it sounds like, region 7 tags don't sell out, so it must not be that much of a circus if you can get away from the roads and crowds. I sometimes feel my antelope area at home gets pressured, but I still invite my friends and some hunt talkers to come here to hunt with me, because they are PUBLIC lands, and I can help them have a positive experience. I have to thank Randy for his resourse via TV, youtube, pod casts and this site...otherwise I'd never see myself hunting deer in Montana, but I'll be there this year...IN REGION 7. I don't see the point in kicking him in the nuts for giving people a direction in which to start to come out West and have a positive experience, wherever he's talked about. A lot of people get intimidated and confused about the drawing systems out west and he gives people a starting point...what's the harm?

All to often the public lands are referred to as "MY" instead of "Our". It's a 318.9(or more now) million way partnership.

 

[ewludwig]

Great.....let's all get into a pissing match about "spots" while the party in power has it in their platform to dispose of our public lands. This kind of discourse is serving nobody who cares about hunting. If you want your "spot" for yourself......buy some land.

If this kind of attention keeps the likes of Greenhorn away it will work in my favor. From what I have heard/read he goes in farther and hunts harder than most. I aspire to hunt in a similar fashion....therefore, he is my competition.....not the guy who see's a YouTube video and drives the roads because Randy said SE Montana is great. Although a road hunter did kill a toad last year while we were there.....dammit!

Anyway.....more hunters equals insurance against those that are working to destroy public lands and hunting in general. Further, I now spend more $$$$ and buy additional tags in MT at high NR rates because some fellas on this site are gracious enough to share opportunities and "spots" I wouldn't have otherwise been exposed to. Prior to meeting these guys, my idea of black bear hunting was cake frosting and tree stands. No thanks. Now I have been bitten by the black bear spot and stalk hunting bug and absolutely love it. That's prob another $1k per year invested in tags, food, gas, etc.....I presume the local businesses and FWP are not complaining.

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

My prediction is that for every new hunter that is inspired to hunt region 7 because of the added publicity, there will be a hunter who sees the same publicity and decides to focus their efforts elsewhere.

My prediction is that whoever is hunting, the majority will still drive the roads and hope to see a shooter from the comfort of their rig.

My prediction is that the people who leave the rig a daylight and walk more than two miles will see the same amount of hunters and the same amount of deer they always did.

I agree, the reality is that a lot of NRs talk a lot about "one of these days I am heading out west", but a small percentage actually do. If Randy's efforts expand our tribe even a little. A few more folks are going to get excited about it, maybe swell the ranks of BHA, RMEF, RMBS, etc a little more, and we get a few more phone calls and letters being sent. We all win. In the whole process there is going to be the exact same number of NR hunters in MT.

Last year I saw precisely one other dude putting in an honest effort in the Custer, we had a nice chat, he was from Billings. Everyone else was within a few hundred yards of their truck.

 

[JohnCushman]

Great.....let's all get into a pissing match about "spots" while the party in power has it in their platform to dispose of our public lands. This kind of discourse is serving nobody who cares about hunting. If you want your "spot" for yourself......buy some land.

If this kind of attention keeps the likes of Greenhorn away it will work in my favor. From what I have heard/read he goes in farther and hunts harder than most. I aspire to hunt in a similar fashion....therefore, he is my competition.....not the guy who see's a YouTube video and drives the roads because Randy said SE Montana is great. Although a road hunter did kill a toad last year while we were there.....dammit!

Anyway.....more hunters equals insurance against those that are working to destroy public lands and hunting in general. Further, I now spend more $$$$ and buy additional tags in MT at high NR rates because some fellas on this site are gracious enough to share opportunities and "spots" I wouldn't have otherwise been exposed to. Prior to meeting these guys, my idea of black bear hunting was cake frosting and tree stands. No thanks. Now I have been bitten by the black bear spot and stalk hunting bug and absolutely love it. That's prob another $1k per year invested in tags, food, gas, etc.....I presume the local businesses and FWP are not complaining.

Quit making sense...you're going to mess up the pissing match

 

[shoots-straight]

I understand what Kurt is saying. In my family, as a young kid, I was told that you don't mention where you hunt to anyone, not even in your sleep. Over the years many people have gone so far as to hunt down the vehicles we use to figure out where to hunt. If possible we have went to the extent of hiding them at the get out spots. In 1985 ( I had an extremely good Bitterroot elk area), I was packing out a bull on my back when I came face to face with this guy. He said that he recognized my vehicle, from other years, and drove down to see where I was hunting. Then he followed my tracks into the area I was hunting. The tracks had played out, but he was into so much elk that he kept going, and then ran into me packing the bull. Long story short, he was a writer for Outdoor life, I thought he said Barness or close to that, anyway the next year he showed up with an entourage of people to hunt with. As I worked through the week, they hunted being Non residents. They were successfull and had write ups in the mags, even to the point of mentioning where. Within a couple of years the area was ruined by too many people using that same area. There still is an over abundance of people hunting there that normally wouldn't. It's never been the same.

This guy didn't just mention a general area but was very specific in where to go. People will not do the work for themselves as far a scouting goes, and will take the easy road others have paved.

My advice is to be careful on being specific on where your hunting. Generalizations are OK and make the newbie at least do his or hers' own scouting.

Largely the best Bear hunting is in North West Montana.

The most elk are historically killed in region 3.

The best Antelope have come from several county's in Eastern Montana.

Best Buffalo is near Gardner.

Best sheep could be considered the Breaks area.

The worst elk hunting is Western Montana. :hump:

 

[BuzzH]

There are lots of things that have changed hunting in the last 25 years.

I used to really feel sort of smug that I had access to DOQ's and over-lapping ownership layers, along with the topo's and aerial photography. Now everyone has the same at their fingertips.

I also was fortunate that I had, and still have, excellent map reading skills that allowed me to hunt sections of public that many wouldn't because they couldn't read a map for chit. Now, everyone with a GPS has the same confidence level and skill set required.

Back in the day, nobody had a cell phone, if you wanted to get in touch with your family or friends and tell them to "get their ass up here, there's elk all over"...you had to wait to get back home or find a pay phone. Now, its flip open the phone and dial them up.

Also, as someone also mentioned, the deer hunting in the Western part of Montana is not what it was even 10 years ago. Mule deer in the area I hunt, that used to be pretty common, are extinct there now. I haven't seen a mule deer there since 2007. Whitetails have declined due to MTFWP mismanagement and over-hunting them from the late 1999-2004, along with also mismanaging lions and allowing them to increase to stupid high numbers. I thought it was impossible to mess up whitetail hunting that bad, I was wrong, and should have known if it was possible one agency to do it, the MTFWP could...and did in fine fashion.

Does anyone remember when the FWP actually tried to HELP the situation by making you select either a SW or Eastern Montana validation for your A-tag? That was a good idea, that was promptly dropped because, I'm sure it made too much sense and actually did some good in spreading out the mule deer harvest. Cant "take away opportunity" was probably the reason it was dropped, even though it made good sense.

I remember the breaks were advertised like hell too, in magazine articles and the pressure really increased there, combined with being able to have a pocket full of tags for both doe pronghorn and deer of both species. That area is now pretty well shot out, and hunters have just moved to the next available place where they get multiple deer tags.

Point is, that lots of things have caused this "gold rush" mentality that we're seeing in SE Montana and elsewhere.

Trying to pin it on one website or what Randy is doing by promoting hunting on public land is just wrong-headed.

Finally, I have never worried about a little competition...at all. The area I hunt near Missoula I've hunted since I was old enough to tag along with my Dad and Grandpa. Other hunters there are no competition to me at all, mainly because there isn't anyone alive that knows that country better than I do. I still hunt there, even though its a shell of what it was, and still manage to have a good time and, if I want, kill an elk or deer there.

I do miss the days of being able to pass up 22 4x4 or better whitetail bucks in a day though...now I'm lucky to see 22 bucks in a week.

Bottom line is that the hunting has declined significantly in Montana for elk, deer, pronghorn, moose, sheep, and goats...and nobody is willing to do a thing about it. So, they lash out at guys with websites and hunting shows...sad really.