Sighting in rifle and getting barrel jump

[Ridgerider]

I am in the process of sighting in an 7mm rem mag Mauser M18 (about 8lbs total with scope). I have seen some barrel jump (high impacts from various ammo) from the bench with my current gun vise. I recently decided to purchase a front rest Caldwell Rock Deluxe Front Rest Adjustable stand and will use a rear squeeze bag to see about minimizing the barrel jumps, and allowing the rifle to have a more free flowing recoil. Anyway, my question is, when shooting 300 win mag, 7mm rem mag, and other heavier recoiling rifles, should the shooter press down on the scope rings to reduce the barrel jump or hold the stock down to reduce the barrel from jumping? Curious on what people recommend for this. I never have anything in contact with the barrel itself. But I have seen many videos of people sighting in or shooting and their non trigger hand just helps to support the rear bag and does not hold or press the rifle down in any way... Thanks for your input!

 

[cahunter805]

I am in the process of sighting in an 7mm rem mag Mauser M18 (about 8lbs total with scope). I have seen some barrel jump (high impacts from various ammo) from the bench with my current gun vise. I recently decided to purchase a front rest Caldwell Rock Deluxe Front Rest Adjustable stand and will use a rear squeeze bag to see about minimizing the barrel jumps, and allowing the rifle to have a more free flowing recoil. Anyway, my question is, when shooting 300 win mag, 7mm rem mag, and other heavier recoiling rifles, should the shooter press down on the scope rings to reduce the barrel jump or hold the stock down to reduce the barrel from jumping? Curious on what people recommend for this. I never have anything in contact with the barrel itself. But I have seen many videos of people sighting in or shooting and their non trigger hand just helps to support the rear bag and does not hold or press the rifle down in any way... Thanks for your input!

I’ve seen various people do that as well. I personally don’t and prefer to control the rifle with proper form and technique. Your rifle shouldn’t jump but should recoil straight back into you.
When using a front rest and rear bag be sure your sling studs don’t get caught or contact the bags during recoil also.
Also proper hand position/grip can help manage recoil as well.

 

[PsRpOiGrRiAtM]

I don't believe anyone should ever try and "hold down" their gun--it adds a chance for inconsistency in the shot sequence, as you'll rarely succeed in holding the same each time. A solid, but soft front rest, and a bag for the rear should allow it to recoil freely and will at least give a consistent baseline to determine any faults/quirks that the gun/ammo combo has, and you can adjust from there.

 

[Mtnhunter1]

Curious, are you thinking that the "barrel jump" or recoil is causing you high hits on target? If so, the bullet/gasses leaving the barrel is the cause of the recoil. So the bullet should be clear of the barrel before the "barrel jump".

If you are concerned about the barrel rise during the recoil? That has more to do with stock design and properly shouldering the rifle.

 

[std7mag]

I'm the odd ball & will hold down on the forestock on my Savage 111 in 7mm Rem Mag when shooting from a rest.
Just be aware, the front swivel stud will tear the heck out of a front bag, or the front rest.

If it's a hunting rifle, shoot from the position & the way you expect to shoot while hunting.

Otherwise you are doing yourself no favors.

 

[kiwi hunter]

all magnums are violent beasts but you can tame them with a brake

 

[grizzly63]

I regularly place my hand on top of my scope. It is more for stability during the shot. I pay attention to where the rifle rests on the front bag. If the barrel is free floated, I tend to have the bag closer to the bedding lug area and not affect the free floating. I rest pressure pointed barrels closer to the end of the forearm. I do not put a lot of pressure downward on the scope. Shooting hard recoiling rifles is a mental thing. Its going to kick you good. Its up to you if you hold the weapon solid enough and mentally make the shot. Its gonna kick either way, might as well make the shot. If you just cannot handle the recoil, get a less powerful rifle, change stocks to something that eats recoil better or buy a brake. Make sure you get some extra hearing protection with the brake as they tend to be a little louder. Guess you could get a suppressor if you want. I kind of like guns that go bang!

 

[Millsworks]

I shoot magnum rifles regularly.
It's a good practice to hold the forearm as if you are shooting off hand. This will usually take some getting used to. But a comfortable, firm grip will really increase the control of muzzle rise and recoil.
Not everyone can master shooting a light rifle in any cartridge.
Mags should be 10lb.+ or braked.
As I have gotten older I now brake my magnum rifles. But I do it to keep the recoil from hurting my neck during long shooting sessions and odd positions.

 

[elkhnter]

I’ve shot with guys that spent small fortunes on floating and bedding, then watch them push down on the barrel at the bench. I’ve also bought a couple of those rifles cheep because the POS won’t shoot.
I personally tuck my left hand almost under my right arm pit. Forearm rests naturally on the front bag.
None of my rifles have brakes and probably never will. Most weigh around 8 1/2# except the AccuMark which is over 9.
I’d tell you to check your shooting bench. If your seat is too high or low, it can effect where the rifle contacts your shoulder and cheek weld. As others have said, recoil should be straight back.
The devil is in the small details. Work on those first.

 

[std7mag]

^^^ i like where Elkhunter is going.

Pushing down on the scope, or barrel is just going to cause flex in the forestock. Hence why i sometimes grip the forestock.

While you may not be able to do anything about the bench height, you can adjust your seat height.
Where i shoot matches has 2 different sets of benches. And are different heights.
And the range where i do my load development & informal shooting has benches at a different height yet.
The answer was a $59 drummers "throne" from a local music store.
Best $59 i've spent in a long time!

 

[Seamaster]

With a sporter weight rifle shooting a stout cartridge you should hold the forearm or top of scope to help with bag jump. With heavy target/varmint rifles shooting mild cartridges it is normal to hold only the rear bag. The weight of the rifle, the shape of the stock, and the level of recoil are things to be considered.

Guys that shoot heavy recoiling sporters without help from the off-hand often have a difficult time at the bench. Of course on the internet everyone shoots brilliantly with whatever they think works.

 

[OntarioHunter]

I don't shoot magnums and my 06 Springfield is fairly heavy so I kinda don't have a dog in this fight. However, I think Elkhunter is spot on. I made myself an adjustable rig for shooting rest and it has made a world of difference when sighting in my rifle (see attached image). A cheap collapsible hunting seat that I sometimes use goose hunting is pretty close to the right height but I may give some thought to ordering a drummer's throne. I learned the hard way about letting the sling swivel contact the rest. Is it okay to let the sling lay between fore end and shooting rest?

 

[VikingsGuy]

I am a fan of "shoot it the way you hunt it". Get a good fitting stock, decent butt pad, use good technique, use a cartridge you can shoot without flinching, and if you have a gun that feels good for 2-3 shots but still have shoulder pain when shooting higher number of rounds during load dev use one of those strap-on shoulder pads.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Use an X bag rather than a front rest. Helps stabilize big boomers & reduced felt recoil. http://www.bullsbag.com/15_Camo_Suede_s/28.htm

@elkhnter has the proper form.

If the above don't do it, get a PAST recoil pad. You shouldn't need to brake either of those rifles. And you shouldn't have to put pressure on it anywhere. Regardless, jump is something to be accustomed too because you'll likely have it in the field, and getting back on target fast is a skill that is necessary in real world situations.

 

[44hunter45]

The point of the bench is to take us out of the equation as much as possible. Choking or horsing the rifle does not help and teaches bad habits when you shoot in the field. On the bench my left hand is tucked back holding the butt rest, or BEING the butt rest. 22 LR to 358 Norma Mag. Everything you need to shoot magnums is learned with a 22 LR. Bench rest shooting builds confidence in your gear. Practical shooting builds confidence in yourself.

A retired police sniper buddy of mine says he can "guide" his shots with just a subtle pressure on the grip with his trigger hand. I don't have the time or ammo budget to get that good. One way I check my cranky gear is to have HIM shoot it. The gear is usually fine.

Once I have my rifle's group centered where I think it should be for my ballistics, I leave the bench behind and shoot field positions off my pack, or trekking poles, etc.
My actual paper groups on targets matter very little to me or the animals. I limit my hunting shots to ranges I am confident I can hit a volleyball for deer and a basketball for elk.
Knowing I can consistently hit that volleyball, I then aim for a golf ball sized spot on the animal when the shot comes.

You wrote "high impacts from various ammo." Does this mean all the shots from one brand of factory group higher?

Posting a picture of you targets might help if you want to drill down. There are lots of variables in play for accuracy questions. We'd have go through those in a rather systematic approach.

 

[Ridgerider]

Thanks for all the info, very much appreciated! I'm looking forward to getting back on the range and ready for hunting this fall.

 

[Ridgerider]

The point of the bench is to take us out of the equation as much as possible. Choking or horsing the rifle does not help and teaches bad habits when you shoot in the field. On the bench my left hand is tucked back holding the butt rest, or BEING the butt rest. 22 LR to 358 Norma Mag. Everything you need to shoot magnums is learned with a 22 LR. Bench rest shooting builds confidence in your gear. Practical shooting builds confidence in yourself.

A retired police sniper buddy of mine says he can "guide" his shots with just a subtle pressure on the grip with his trigger hand. I don't have the time or ammo budget to get that good. One way I check my cranky gear is to have HIM shoot it. The gear is usually fine.

Once I have my rifle's group centered where I think it should be for my ballistics, I leave the bench behind and shoot field positions off my pack, or trekking poles, etc.
My actual paper groups on targets matter very little to me or the animals. I limit my hunting shots to ranges I am confident I can hit a volleyball for deer and a basketball for elk.
Knowing I can consistently hit that volleyball, I then aim for a golf ball sized spot on the animal when the shot comes.

You wrote "high impacts from various ammo." Does this mean all the shots from one brand of factory group higher?

Posting a picture of you targets might help if you want to drill down. There are lots of variables in play for accuracy questions. We'd have go through those in a rather systematic approach.

Thanks, I am going to try my new set up, see how it goes, and will report back with targets impacts.

 

[OntarioHunter]

... getting back on target fast is a skill that is necessary in real world situations.

I'm not sure there are many real world situations that require getting back on target quickly with a scoped magnum rifle. Dangerous game might be the exception but there I'd definitely toss the scope and maybe go with a double rifle ... or a pump action shotgun. Shooting a magnum bolt action typically involves unmounting it from shoulder to reload so muzzle jump is immaterial when reaquiring the target.

 

[Fire_9]

I'm not sure there are many real world situations that require getting back on target quickly with a scoped magnum rifle. Dangerous game might be the exception but there I'd definitely toss the scope and maybe go with a double rifle ... or a pump action shotgun. Shooting a magnum bolt action typically involves unmounting it from shoulder to reload so muzzle jump is immaterial when reaquiring the target.

I would definitely consider getting back on target a valuable skill no matter what you’re hunting. How many time have you heard guys say .”Did I hit him?!”. That should not be a question no matter what rifle you’re shooting.…

 

[OntarioHunter]

I would definitely consider getting back on target a valuable skill no matter what you’re hunting. How many time have you heard guys say .”Did I hit him?!”. That should not be a question no matter what rifle you’re shooting.…

Usually the shooter is asking for confirmation. The other guy can often hear the bullet hit better than I can. I shoot a fairly heavy 30-06 and even if I drop the animal on the spot, I often don't see it go down. Off the sticks at 120 yards with scope on 4x this wildebeest disappeared when I shot. I asked my PH where did it go. "To heaven."

Similarly, this bull shot in the back of the head walking away also disappeared when I shot. Had there been anyone to discuss it with, I would have asked the same question: "Did I hit it?"

If you're shooting enough gun for big game, especially with a scope, don't expect to reaquire for follow up shots at lightning speed. Even with technological advancements in recoil reduction, it's not going to be instantaneous. I used my PH's 270 WSM to take my kudu a few weeks ago. I consider that calibre maybe a bit on the light side for those big animals and the recoil for that sharp shouldered case is, I'm told, typically severe. But his has a fancy suppressor and I hardly noticed it. Still, even shooting prone from a bipod, I didn't see that bull leave the scene after the shot. But I didn't have to ask. At 440 yards and with suppressor, the sound of the hit was quite distinctive.