MTNTOUGH - Use promo code RANDY for 30 days free

Sighting in rifle and getting barrel jump

I'm not sure there are many real world situations that require getting back on target quickly with a scoped magnum rifle. Dangerous game might be the exception but there I'd definitely toss the scope and maybe go with a double rifle ... or a pump action shotgun. Shooting a magnum bolt action typically involves unmounting it from shoulder to reload so muzzle jump is immaterial when reaquiring the target.

Thick timber elk w/a less than perfect shot.

North woods deer hunting

Multiple targets and a short window for shooting

Running game

If you're removing your rifle from your shoulder to chamber a round, then great. Lots of folks out there jack a round in the chamber while it's still on their shoulder. Unless you're left handed and shooting a righty rifle. Even then, I could chamber a round with my left hand and not remove the rifle from my shoulder.

YMMV
 
Thick timber elk w/a less than perfect shot.

North woods deer hunting

Multiple targets and a short window for shooting

Running game

If you're removing your rifle from your shoulder to chamber a round, then great. Lots of folks out there jack a round in the chamber while it's still on their shoulder. Unless you're left handed and shooting a righty rifle. Even then, I could chamber a round with my left hand and not remove the rifle from my shoulder.

YMMV
Something I have learned about reacquiring moving targets from shooting thousands of rounds (actually hundreds of thousands of rounds) at skeet/clays range: get the gun out of the way. Learn to locate, reload, remount, and reacquire the follow up target all in one smoothe motion.

The shooter will spend more time trying to get back on the animal looking through a scope than finding it visually while reloading and then remounting the gun. And if your gun never leaves the shoulder, you're busy jiggling it around trying to load another round while trying to find/stay on a moving target with the rifle. This would be no easy feat even with a 1.5x scope. Yeah, sure Colonel Jeff's "scout method" preaches exactly that technique but 1) it's not designed for medium or high magnification scopes on magnum rifles and 2) it's bullshit anyway.
 
Usually the shooter is asking for confirmation. The other guy can often hear the bullet hit better than I can. I shoot a fairly heavy 30-06 and even if I drop the animal on the spot, I often don't see it go down. Off the sticks at 120 yards with scope on 4x this wildebeest disappeared when I shot. I asked my PH where did it go. "To heaven."
View attachment 194505
Similarly, this bull shot in the back of the head walking away also disappeared when I shot. Had there been anyone to discuss it with, I would have asked the same question: "Did I hit it?"
View attachment 194506
If you're shooting enough gun for big game, especially with a scope, don't expect to reaquire for follow up shots at lightning speed. Even with technological advancements in recoil reduction, it's not going to be instantaneous. I used my PH's 270 WSM to take my kudu a few weeks ago. I consider that calibre maybe a bit on the light side for those big animals and the recoil for that sharp shouldered case is, I'm told, typically severe. But his has a fancy suppressor and I hardly noticed it. Still, even shooting prone from a bipod, I didn't see that bull leave the scene after the shot. But I didn't have to ask. At 440 yards and with suppressor, the sound of the hit was quite distinctive.

I hate to break it to you but you are over gunned, have poor fundamentals, or both. It may work for you but it doesn’t mean that you’re doing it right. Not saying I spot all my shots but if I don’t, it means that I did something wrong. You should be able to spot every single shot at 400 yards with a suppressor. And I say this for other people that are going to read this post. I know that there is no changing your mind but somebody that is willing to learn and change may read it and take the correct actions to become more proficient with their weapon.
 
Something I have learned about reacquiring moving targets from shooting thousands of rounds (actually hundreds of thousands of rounds) at skeet/clays range: get the gun out of the way. Learn to locate, reload, remount, and reacquire the follow up target all in one smoothe motion.

The shooter will spend more time trying to get back on the animal looking through a scope than finding it visually while reloading and then remounting the gun. And if your gun never leaves the shoulder, you're busy jiggling it around trying to load another round while trying to find/stay on a moving target with the rifle. This would be no easy feat even with a 1.5x scope. Yeah, sure Colonel Jeff's "scout method" preaches exactly that technique but 1) it's not designed for medium or high magnification scopes on magnum rifles and 2) it's bullshit anyway.

As I said, your mileage may vary.
 
Other than hunting my main involvement in shooting is benchrest competition. As I have gotten more ripe with age the only competitions I enter are the local matches at the club, but we are fairly serious about it. Often small wagers are placed to make it more fun. At the range at the club on practice days I sometimes see a few other shooters trying to copy the form that we use with our bench rifles while using their sporter rifles. My bench rig shoots a small cartridge, weighs about 17 pounds, has a wide flat fore end on the stock, and is close enough to straight on the top and bottom of the rear of the stock so it will ride the bags well. A typical sporter weighs about half that, has a slim, rounded, and slanted fore end, and the rear of the stock in shaped much differently.

We barely touch our heavy target rifles with their 2-6 oz. triggers when firing and the sighting is done with a joystick. Using that form with a sporter will make the front of the rifle rise during recoil, and might let it roll slightly on the front rest. That does not work out too badly with the smaller cartridges (the .22's, 6mm's, etc.) but generally not for the rifles with heavier recoil. I am not a fan of brakes, but a brake or a can should help keep the recoil in more of a straight line. There is nothing wrong with touching the fore end (not the barrel) or using your off hand to touch the top of your scope, in fact it is a very good idea.
 
I hate to break it to you but you are over gunned, have poor fundamentals, or both. It may work for you but it doesn’t mean that you’re doing it right. Not saying I spot all my shots but if I don’t, it means that I did something wrong. You should be able to spot every single shot at 400 yards with a suppressor. And I say this for other people that are going to read this post. I know that there is no changing your mind but somebody that is willing to learn and change may read it and take the correct actions to become more proficient with their weapon.
Shooting from a bench is different than shooting in the field. The kudu was uphill and 440 yards. The gun almost certainly was not perfectly seated in my shoulder given the angle. And that fine bull wasn't going to stand there and look at us all day while I fiddled with changing the bipod or searched for a better prone position. At 20x all I had to do was cut a weak fart and I'd lose the target. Maybe the tracker should be carrying a shooting bench? I put the shot where it should be. It is immaterial whether or not I was able to see the bullet actually hit. The bull elk above was shot in thick stuff on the move maybe sixty yards uphill (VERY uphill ... I had to tie him up to field dress). Shot offhand and it disappeared. If you expect to "spot" that shot and see the bullet hit and animal go down, then you are the one who needs some experience ... in the field. In ideal conditions I can and do spot the shot even if recoil does not allow me to see the animal go down. I dropped a warthog a few weeks ago from a great rest at 200 yards (that one I never lost sight of). PH asked me where I shot it. In the neck ... and that is a small target. And it was indeed shot in the neck. My first buffalo was mortally hit through the heart with one shot at 110 metres. It didn't go right down but I got off the sticks to reload quickly. No need for a second shot but the herd boss was making things interesting fast. Called that shot too. And my recent buffalo on the run behind the shoulder through both lungs. Called that shot. And both shots into gemsbuck about to run me over. Before we looked at it I told the PH it was shot in the heart ... twice.

I hate to break it to you, but you don't know shit about shooting animals in the field. And you sure as hell don't know shit about me. I'm 6'1" and 190 lbs. A 30-06 is not more gun than I can handle. Har, har.
 
Last edited:
Shooting from a bench is different than shooting in the field. The kudu was uphill and 440 yards. The gun almost certainly was not perfectly seated in my shoulder given the angle. And that fine bull wasn't going to stand there and look at us all day while I fiddled with changing the bipod or searched for a better prone position. At 20x all I had to do was cut a weak fart and I'd lose the target. Maybe the tracker should be carrying a shooting bench? I put the shot where it should be. It is immaterial whether or not I was able to see the bullet actually hit. The bull elk above was shot in thick stuff on the move maybe sixty yards uphill (VERY uphill ... I had to tie him up to field dress). Shot offhand and it disappeared. If you expect to "spot" that shot and see the bullet hit and animal go down, then you are the one who needs some experience ... in the field. In ideal conditions I can and do spot the shot even if recoil does not allow me to see the animal go down. I dropped a warthog a few weeks ago from a great rest at 200 yards (that one I never lost sight of). PH asked me where I shot it. In the neck ... and that is a small target. And it was indeed shot in the neck. My first buffalo was mortally hit through the heart with one shot at 110 metres. It didn't go right down but I got off the sticks to reload quickly. No need for a second shot but the herd boss was making things interesting fast. Called that shot too. And my recent buffalo on the run behind the shoulder through both lungs. Called that shot. And both shots into gemsbuck about to run me over. Before we looked at it I told the PH it was shot in the heart ... twice.

I hate to break it to you, but you don't know shit about shooting animals in the field. And you sure as hell don't know shit about me.

Like I said, that post wasn’t necessarily for you but I’m happy to hear that you are as good as you are. I hope that one day I can have a fraction of the skill and success that you have. You sir are a legend and we are bless to have you here to share your wisdom….
 
Swap your front rest for a butterfly style bag like Uncle Buds Bulls bag. Fill with playground sand. Adjust height by stacking two stacks of sandbags or boards with bulls bag resting stop the two stacks. Arranging this way locks the gun from rising vertically but allows sliding rearward.

There's not a better way to rest light sporters.

If you're tired of spending, fill a sandbag made from a pant leg and just hold the forearm in your hand resting over the sandbag squished into position. Whatever you do, the forearm must rest on something with a little give. This is always the case.
 
Swap your front rest for a butterfly style bag like Uncle Buds Bulls bag. Fill with playground sand. Adjust height by stacking two stacks of sandbags or boards with bulls bag resting stop the two stacks. Arranging this way locks the gun from rising vertically but allows sliding rearward.

There's not a better way to rest light sporters.

If you're tired of spending, fill a sandbag made from a pant leg and just hold the forearm in your hand resting over the sandbag squished into position. Whatever you do, the forearm must rest on something with a little give. This is always the case.
I'm perplexed. Seeing some mixed messages here. Is it wrong or okay to push down on the barrel (with hand or sandbag) when sighting in the rifle? Doesn't that alter barrel vibration dynamics? When shooting off the sticks or bipod, is the forearm resting "on something with [enough] give?"
 
I'm perplexed. Seeing some mixed messages here. Is it wrong or okay to push down on the barrel (with hand or sandbag) when sighting in the rifle? Doesn't that alter barrel vibration dynamics? When shooting off the sticks or bipod, is the forearm resting "on something with [enough] giveN

I'm perplexed. Seeing some mixed messages here. Is it wrong or okay to push down on the barrel (with hand or sandbag) when sighting in the rifle? Doesn't that alter barrel vibration dynamics? When shooting off the sticks or bipod, is the forearm resting "on something with [enough] give?"
Not push down, cradle forearm in your hand as you would resting over a rock or fence post, etc. This is what the bulls bag does and much more easily.

You're trying to get the rifle to recoil straight back, perpendicular to the target, with no twisting. Imagine a rocket taking off. That's the barrel. The launching pad is the target. The cross hair should rise and fall through the bullseye as you slide the rifle forward and back through the bags. If it twists or varies left or right, readjust the bags. Benchrest stocks and rests are made to do this without touching the rifle. Hunting sporters and especially lighter rifles need accommodation.

Always have something insulating the forearm from a hard surface to avoid throwing the shot wide.
 
Not push down, cradle forearm in your hand as you would resting over a rock or fence post, etc. This is what the bulls bag does and much more easily.

You're trying to get the rifle to recoil straight back, perpendicular to the target, with no twisting. Imagine a rocket taking off. That's the barrel. The launching pad is the target. The cross hair should rise and fall through the bullseye as you slide the rifle forward and back through the bags. If it twists or varies left or right, readjust the bags. Benchrest stocks and rests are made to do this without touching the rifle. Hunting sporters and especially lighter rifles need accommodation.

Always have something insulating the forearm from a hard surface to avoid throwing the shot wide.
Thanks. Guess I misunderstood your post. I thought you were saying a bag should be on top of the gun which admittedly didn't make a lot of sense. How would the shooter see over it?

So I should be using shooting sticks that cradle the forearm firmly rather than the ones with a flat platform rest that provides for some lateral movement? Does my homemade rest above look like it provides what's needed for bench shooting support? Any suggestions for improvement?

Just to be clear, I never was much of a fan of shooting sticks or bipods. Too awkward for the style of hunting I prefer. When stalking in snow, especially in steep country, I don't want my hands full dragging shooting sticks. In Africa that's the way things are done but hunting is usually in relatively flat country and there's always plenty of hired help along to carry the things. Bipods may require a reassessment. They are a bit awkward and add some weight but if there's time to deploy, the advantage in improved accuracy is significant. Any advantage that improves the odds of a quick clean kill is worth considering. I'm usually hunting deer spot and stalk in eastern Montana in dry conditions and a bipod would work well for that. For tracking elk or moose in snow and timber I would remove the bipod. Rarely have time to deploy it.
 
Referring to the OP, Sounds like you have some anticipation in your shot process and your bracing for the recoil. Only way to fix that is by reps with no live rounds IMO. Get rid of that fear of your recoil, Whether you admit it or not thats the problem. Myself included and probably most on this forum have dealt with that at one point in time, Everybody does. Unless your OntarioHunter
 
Are we talking about support to control shooter movement while taking the shot or gun moving after the cap is snapped? Still not clear about that.
 
Referring to the OP, Sounds like you have some anticipation in your shot process and your bracing for the recoil. Only way to fix that is by reps with no live rounds IMO. Get rid of that fear of your recoil, Whether you admit it or not thats the problem. Myself included and probably most on this forum have dealt with that at one point in time, Everybody does. Unless your OntarioHunter
Funny guy. I suspect most on here who shoot magnum cannons have had to deal with flinch at some time. My 30-06 doesn't thump that hard. Sometimes I wonder if too much time at the range is detrimental? My philosophy has always been get the gun zeroed and leave it alone till heading into the field. Getting pounded a lot is the way a flinch is developed. You're right about the snap cap reps. Best if you don't know they're snap caps. Have someone load the gun for you? Occasionally shooting trap/skeet I'll get a bad primer and the flinch is exposed, but jerkimg the trigger with a shotgun is acceptable form for moving targets. However, I had some problems with duds at the rifle range and no flinch.
 
Funny guy. I suspect most on here who shoot magnum cannons have had to deal with flinch at some time. My 30-06 doesn't thump that hard. Sometimes I wonder if too much time at the range is detrimental? My philosophy has always been get the gun zeroed and leave it alone till heading into the field. Getting pounded a lot is the way a flinch is developed. You're right about the snap cap reps. Best if you don't know they're snap caps. Have someone load the gun for you? Occasionally shooting trap/skeet I'll get a bad primer and the flinch is exposed, but jerkimg the trigger with a shotgun is acceptable form for moving targets. However, I had some problems with duds at the rifle range and no flinch.

Disagree. As many reps as possible is preferred from my perspective. That's why I say shooting with no rounds and just the sound of the firing pin. Your getting reps in on that slow steady pressure and working on reducing that anticipation. I developed anticipation with my 30-06, it has not a lot to do with it being a large caliber (maybe a little bit). Its the lack of reps and being unfamiliar with your tool.

Think of it this way. Would you want your service members who protect the country to simply set it an forget it? Never work on reps and shooting fundamentals? That's stupid.

I am guilty of not shooting my rifle enough so I usually develop a flinch when I haven't shot for awhile. If your only shooting 200 yards then yea you can get away with doing that and remaining accurate enough. But if your looking to shoot 400 - 600 yards at animals you better be getting your reps in.
 
The size of the gun really doesn’t have that much to do with flinching, aka trigger anticipation. I’ve seen plenty of shooters who flinch shooting a 9mm Glock. They’ll flinch with a rifle too, it’s just more noticeable with a pistol.

As much practice as you can get is good, but is has to be good practice and you have to understand what is going on mentally and physically. Hint, your conscious mind can only occupy one thing at a time.

Shooting a rifle and a shotgun are completely different physical tasks. There simply is no overlap between wing shooting and precision rifle shooting (shooting at running game is akin to wing shooting).

When you fully understand the mental aspect of precision shooting, it makes NO DIFFERENCE if it’s been one year or one second between shots. If you replicate the sequence, you’ll be spot on. I’d you don’t, you won’t.
 
Disagree. As many reps as possible is preferred from my perspective. That's why I say shooting with no rounds and just the sound of the firing pin. Your getting reps in on that slow steady pressure and working on reducing that anticipation. I developed anticipation with my 30-06, it has not a lot to do with it being a large caliber (maybe a little bit). Its the lack of reps and being unfamiliar with your tool.

Think of it this way. Would you want your service members who protect the country to simply set it an forget it? Never work on reps and shooting fundamentals? That's stupid.

I am guilty of not shooting my rifle enough so I usually develop a flinch when I haven't shot for awhile. If your only shooting 200 yards then yea you can get away with doing that and remaining accurate enough. But if your looking to shoot 400 - 600 yards at animals you better be getting your reps in.
Perhaps. When I was in the US military we qualified and that's it. I carried a .45 every day on the job the next three years and never fired it at the range again. When I qualified with a pistol and calibre (1911 Colt) I'd never handled before, I shot the third best score ever at Ft Gordon. The best score was shot by a woman who'd never handled a pistol before in her life! But she probably had eyes like Ted Williams. In Africa I shot a black wildebeest with my PH's 270 WSM @ 350 metres (370 yards?) behind the ear and in a stiff sidewind. Never shot the gun before and it's crisp light trigger was significantly different than my old 30-06 Springfield's. Next shot with it took a kudu in the boiler room at 440 yards. Then five more animals the next day all at 250-180 yards. All but one dropped on the spot. I credit that unfamiliar gun almost entirely ... and abundant field experience to some extent. Buck fever is a thing of the past for me ... distant past.
 
Last edited:
Perhaps. When I was in the US military we qualified and that's it. I carried a .45 every day on the job the next three years and never fired it at the range again. When I qualified with a pistol and calibre (1911 Colt) I'd never handled before, I shot the third best score ever at Ft Gordon. The best score was shot by a woman who'd never handled a pistol before in her life! But she probably had eyes like Ted Williams. In Africa I shot a black wildebeest with my PH's 270 WSM @ 350 metres (370 yards?) behind the ear and in a stiff sidewind. Never shot the gun before and it's crisp light trigger was significantly different than my old Springfield's. Next shot with it took a kudu in the boiler room at 440 yards. Then five more animals the next day all at 250-180 yards. All but one dropped on the spot. I credit that unfamiliar gun almost entirely ... and abundant field experience to some extent. Buck fever is a thing of the past for me ... distant past.
Cool, When I was active duty in the Marines, we shot far more often then that. Rifle Qual was once a year but I fired god only knows how many rounds thru an M16A4, and a 240g out the back of a V22 osprey.

Perhaps your an outlier and not the usual.
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
111,112
Messages
1,947,526
Members
35,033
Latest member
Leejones
Back
Top