I'm glad to hear this but nobody at FWP will make a remark about this not being a good idea. They all act as if it is an already done deal. They don't even want to hear you talk about it. Do they know something we don't?
Shoulder Seasons during Archery...
- Thread starter JoeSchmo
- Start date
I'm glad to hear this but nobody at FWP will make a remark about this not being a good idea. They all act as if it is an already done deal. They don't even want to hear you talk about it. Do they know something we don't?
El Jason
Well-known member
Math doesn't matter when you are mandated to kill a shit ton of elk.
El Jason
Well-known member
Use your head here, who do you think is telling them to make this stuff happen?
Their "math" is what is telling them that these new proposals are justified. I'm saying I disagree with their elementary math.
I used my head. Then Big Fin said that he can't see it going through and no other group agrees with it and can see it going through either. But FWP claims it will go through... so which is it?
T
tjones
Guest
El Jason
Well-known member
T
tjones
Guest
RobG
Well-known member
Absolutely. Are they still talking about taking Bulls? I thought it was cow only.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
Just talked to my friend up at Augusta and he went to the meeting last night. There were 5 hunters there in the room counting him.
Focus on the third floor - the legislature. They're the ones telling FWP that they're going to not pass a budget unless they give them what they want.
If you want to contact the Gov's office, call: 406-444-3111 or toll free: 855-318-1330
Or email at: https://governor.mt.gov/Home/Contact/shareopinion
Be polite and courteous. It goes much farther than mean and nasty.
Shoulder seasons are up at EQC now, if anyone is intersted in watching our illustrious legislators tackling the issue: http://montanalegislature.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=94&event_id=3215
Last edited:
T
tjones
Guest
Boo
Randy, please correct me if I am in the wrong. I know it was in the initial proposal. If that has changed, I would be interested to know....and edit my comment letter.
says the king of polite.
BuzzH
Well-known member
JoeSchmo,
Listen to what JLS and Tjones are telling you. The Governors office and/or the Legislature are behind these shoulder seasons.
The MFWP and its Director lack the fortitude to do what's truly best for wildlife...and sadly its been this way for a long, long, time.
Trust me, nobody on planet earth is any more outraged with the lack of management in Montana than many on this site, me included.
This is what happens when:
1. Hunters don't show up and adopt an absolute bullchit Elk Management Plan. The hunters in Montana hardly whimpered as they took a complete beating via the EMP.
2. Legislators meddling into wildlife management and passing legislation that cares nothing about wildlife in Montana.
3. A Department and Governor that are not acting in the best interest of wildlife or hunters/anglers.
4. A general hunting public that only cares about "gettin' thar elk this year" and "filling freezers this year". Even if doing so is supporting a complete chit management decision and severely hurting cow/calf ratio's, bull to cow ratios, total elk populations, screwing up others hunting seasons, etc. Its opportunity at all costs, even if what they're participating in, will reduce long-term opportunity. They don't care.
5. The FWP is allowing this to happen, and further is ENCOURAGING the types of hunters in item #4 by essentially telling them its A-OK. I've watched as the MFWP has over-issued doe tags, cow permits, etc. etc. Pretty tough to put 100% of the blame on hunters when the MFWP offers these tags for sale.
6. A complete distrust of the MFWP, which, they have sure as hell earned, for their lack of doing what's best for the health of MT's wildlife as a first priority.
That's just to get the ball rolling. I will say that if not for the very, very few MT hunters and handful of sportsmen groups in the State, it would be even worse than it is.
The only way this will change, is when MT kills enough elk to get them to their desired number of 90K elk. Elk hunting will look much different then, and maybe, just maybe even the most blind of hunters that place this years need of "gettin' a elk", and "opportunity" will realize the folly of things like these shoulder seasons.
As such, I think the best move is to get to 90K or fewer elk ASAP. Its a sad state of affairs when the number of elk that the EMP wants on the landscape in MT has NOTHING to do with habitat potential, carrying capacity, or any other science, but rather 100% to do with the wants of an Ag/landowner heavy Legislature.
I've tried every avenue I know of to try to stop this kind of shit, written letters, joined as a life member of some MT based hunting orgs, called, attended meetings, etc. Very limited success with that, so, I will no longer support a Department financially that sits on their collective asses and squanders what's left of a great resource...while ignoring the awesome wildlife potential that exists in Montana.
The only thing that makes the FWP, Landowners, Hunters, and Legislature happy is dead elk...get on with it.
Listen to what JLS and Tjones are telling you. The Governors office and/or the Legislature are behind these shoulder seasons.
The MFWP and its Director lack the fortitude to do what's truly best for wildlife...and sadly its been this way for a long, long, time.
Trust me, nobody on planet earth is any more outraged with the lack of management in Montana than many on this site, me included.
This is what happens when:
1. Hunters don't show up and adopt an absolute bullchit Elk Management Plan. The hunters in Montana hardly whimpered as they took a complete beating via the EMP.
2. Legislators meddling into wildlife management and passing legislation that cares nothing about wildlife in Montana.
3. A Department and Governor that are not acting in the best interest of wildlife or hunters/anglers.
4. A general hunting public that only cares about "gettin' thar elk this year" and "filling freezers this year". Even if doing so is supporting a complete chit management decision and severely hurting cow/calf ratio's, bull to cow ratios, total elk populations, screwing up others hunting seasons, etc. Its opportunity at all costs, even if what they're participating in, will reduce long-term opportunity. They don't care.
5. The FWP is allowing this to happen, and further is ENCOURAGING the types of hunters in item #4 by essentially telling them its A-OK. I've watched as the MFWP has over-issued doe tags, cow permits, etc. etc. Pretty tough to put 100% of the blame on hunters when the MFWP offers these tags for sale.
6. A complete distrust of the MFWP, which, they have sure as hell earned, for their lack of doing what's best for the health of MT's wildlife as a first priority.
That's just to get the ball rolling. I will say that if not for the very, very few MT hunters and handful of sportsmen groups in the State, it would be even worse than it is.
The only way this will change, is when MT kills enough elk to get them to their desired number of 90K elk. Elk hunting will look much different then, and maybe, just maybe even the most blind of hunters that place this years need of "gettin' a elk", and "opportunity" will realize the folly of things like these shoulder seasons.
As such, I think the best move is to get to 90K or fewer elk ASAP. Its a sad state of affairs when the number of elk that the EMP wants on the landscape in MT has NOTHING to do with habitat potential, carrying capacity, or any other science, but rather 100% to do with the wants of an Ag/landowner heavy Legislature.
I've tried every avenue I know of to try to stop this kind of shit, written letters, joined as a life member of some MT based hunting orgs, called, attended meetings, etc. Very limited success with that, so, I will no longer support a Department financially that sits on their collective asses and squanders what's left of a great resource...while ignoring the awesome wildlife potential that exists in Montana.
The only thing that makes the FWP, Landowners, Hunters, and Legislature happy is dead elk...get on with it.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
BuzzH
Well-known member
Shoots-straight, did you take that picture during a joint "brain-storming session" with the FWP, Governors office, and Legislature regarding elk management?
Looks like it to me...
Looks like it to me...
Randy, please correct me if I am in the wrong. I know it was in the initial proposal. If that has changed, I would be interested to know....and edit my comment letter.
I don't see any of the shoulder seasons in the Master List from December including bulls, but I know of many changes proposed since this was put out, so it's possible it's came up somewhere along the line-
http://fwp.mt.gov/doingBusiness/ins...tings/agenda.html?coversheet&topicId=34274705
Anybody heard anything at any of the meetings?
If you cannot attend, please email your comments. I will be at SHOT Show during the Bozeman open house, so I made personal calls to my Commissioner and the Chairman of the Commission with my comments. In addition, they both asked if I would provide written comments, which I will do.
You need to make your voice heard, through one of the comment options, no matter how you feel on any of these topics. Shoots' friend observing only five people at an open house is so typical and so frustrating. Any bets how many people in that area will bitch and moan if the decision doesn't go their way, yet they could not attend a meeting on something they claim is a key reason they live in Montana and work for much less money?
If the voice is overwhelming from hunters and the decisions are made a different direction, there better be a very good reason for the alternatives chosen.
You need to make your voice heard, through one of the comment options, no matter how you feel on any of these topics. Shoots' friend observing only five people at an open house is so typical and so frustrating. Any bets how many people in that area will bitch and moan if the decision doesn't go their way, yet they could not attend a meeting on something they claim is a key reason they live in Montana and work for much less money?
If the voice is overwhelming from hunters and the decisions are made a different direction, there better be a very good reason for the alternatives chosen.
Randy, under the "Background" links there were a couple that discussed bull harvest during the shoulder, but permit would be required.
http://fwp.mt.gov/hunting/seasons/elkShoulder.html
I don't remember which ones specifically, but open them and word search "bull". If you have new info, I would be interested.
So how did it go?
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