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Shot Placement for Monolithic/Copper Bullets - Shoulder or Double Lung?

nuevo_eph

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I have a question for all you GMX, ETip, or TSX/TTSX users out there. Using these bullets, do you prefer to shoot a deer or elk right behind the crease, and through the lungs, or go for a front shoulder, anchoring shot? I’m looking into taking mule deer with one (120g TTSX 7mm08) this year but I haven’t seen real strong feedback on using these bullets for a through and through. Obviously if I break the shoulder I am sacrificing a little meat for the security of anchoring the animal sooner.

Case in point, I took down an oryx with 3 shots from a 150g TTSX in 30-06 this year just so it wouldn’t run off for a mile. It died 5 yards from where I shot it through the front legs with the first 2 shots (3rd was the final insurance since it started to move again), but I lost a portion of both front quarters. That is a tradeoff I’d make for an oryx, since they are known for their ability to get moving after being mortally hit. I’m not sure I’d make the same tradeoff for deer unless I had doubts about the TTSX not doing its job with a double lung, broadside shot.

So, double lung or intentional bone-breaking shot with these bullets? I’d appreciate your thoughts since I’ve failed to find much of a similar thread on any hunting forum.
 

JLS

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Outside of situations like a mountain goat hunt, where a death run could be REALLY bad, I aim for the > in the shoulder pocket. Mind you, this is not the crease, it's the pocket between the humerus and the scapula.

This is of course, assuming a broadside shot. On quartering shots or uphill straight away, I just put it where it needs to go in order to reach vitals.

It's been my experience that when you shoot for the > your recovery distance is usually measured in feet, provided they don't roll down the hill.
 

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NoWiser

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Easy answer for me, I put the bullet where it will destroy the least possible amount of meat and still make for a clean kill. That is through both lungs behind the shoulder. I've hunted with guys who purposely shoot them through the front quarters so that they don't have to deal with them and it ticks me off to no end. No animal I've shot through both lungs has made it more than 100 yards. I'll gladly track an animal for 100 yards to save the meat. Many animals I've shot with the TSX through the lungs have dropped on the spot. No need for a shoulder shot.
 

----

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My one experience with a mono bullet is mountain goat. It was at the lower end of the recommended velocity and it went through ribs and lungs. It was dead within probably 5-8 seconds and 20 feet.
 

nuevo_eph

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JLS,

Question on the ">" of the pocket - so you are trying to miss the leg bone and hit under the scapula? I ask and understand the bone structure here.
 

npaden

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My experience with the E-Tips has been very good. The one time I thought it hadn't performed correctly, I was mistaken on which direction the animal was facing when I made the shot and it had actually done it's job perfectly, I just didn't understand how it was stuck in the hide on the same side I had shot it from. Actually it had been facing the opposite direction and the tumbling bullet had gone through the hide on the opposite side back end first and stuck there. (I shot the elk 3 times and all 3 were fatal shots, the first shot the elk was facing one direction and the last 2 shots it was facing the other direction).

e_tip_bullet_failure_close.jpg


I did have this bullet that I recovered that was shot out of a 7mm Mag at about 50 yards into an elk's ribcage. It did lose it's petals, but the end result was a dead elk. This was a one shot kill.

bullet.jpg


Here's 2 others that I recovered out of mule deer.

09406f8a.jpg


This is a close up of the bullet on the left from a different angle.

2009_Muledeer_bullet.jpg


I wouldn't worry about punching one through without it expanding, they seem to have it sorted out pretty well.

I personally tend to aim for a lung shot about 90% of the time, but sometimes end up with a different angle. The 2 bullets recovered from mule deer were both at severe angles and that's why they weren't pass throughs.

Kind of neat that I've had 4 recovered bullets in the last 5 or 6 years.

My 2 cents.
 
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JLS

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JLS,

Question on the ">" of the pocket - so you are trying to miss the leg bone and hit under the scapula? I ask and understand the bone structure here.

On a straight broadside, yes. If the animal is quartered at all, it's pretty likely that the bullet will hit the humerous and/or bottom of the scapula.

There is a huge mass of vasculature at that spot. I shot a whitetail doe with my bow, hitting her right at the point of the >. It severed the aorta.
 

LopeHunter

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Outside of situations like a mountain goat hunt, where a death run could be REALLY bad, I aim for the > in the shoulder pocket. Mind you, this is not the crease, it's the pocket between the humerus and the scapula.

This is of course, assuming a broadside shot. On quartering shots or uphill straight away, I just put it where it needs to go in order to reach vitals.

It's been my experience that when you shoot for the > your recovery distance is usually measured in feet, provided they don't roll down the hill.

I try to tuck the bullet about 6" lower and about 6" further back if a broadside. I want lungs and perhaps clip the heart. If am in steep nasty stuff at last light then I do like your shot location better. Gets tricky when are up/down hill or is a quartering angle. In those cases which is most shots then I try to shoot so the bullet passes through the heart zone and often a shoulder gets involved in that bullet channel but is not planned that way.
 

noharleyyet

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Barnes 180gr TSX 30 cal @ 100 yds. Behind the shoulder facing right....twirled 180 degrees & hit him in the same spot opposite side. Found bullets just under the hide on opposite sides.

 

HighDesertSage

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I have always held to account for the maximum amount of error (hold center of vitals). A TTSX in the vitals results in a dead animal very quickly in my experience, regardless if it was in the shoulder or lungs. I have had a few run, but the distance was negligible.
 

mtmuley

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One of the supposed benefits of monos is minimal meat damage. So, a shoulder shot would be optimal. Anchors a critter regardless of bullet construction. I doubt that the op needs to worry. Just take the shot you have. mtmuley
 

Gr8bawana

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The cow elk I shot 2 years ago was shot it through the lungs. When skinning it we discovered the bullet had clipped the rear tip of the "elbow" and had to trim away a very large portion of that shoulder due to blood shot meat. Game meat is so tastey I try to shoot for the lungs only because I really hate to waste any meat.
 

sbhooper

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One of the supposed benefits of monos is minimal meat damage. So, a shoulder shot would be optimal. Anchors a critter regardless of bullet construction. I doubt that the op needs to worry. Just take the shot you have. mtmuley

Right on. Especially if it is close, it does not matter which you shoot, as the bullet will expand due to high velocity. Shot through the shoulders, you may lose some meat, but the animal will be right there. I will take that trade anytime. I have shot plenty of animals through the shoulder and only lost parts of the shoulder.

Lots of people do not realize that you have to shoot Oryx farther ahead than deer, antelope, elk etc. This means that you are already going to be closer to the big bones. The appropriate shot is straight up the front leg. The vitals of African antelope are farther ahead in the body cavity.

I killed three Oryx in New Mexico using original 160 Barnes X in a 7 mag. I did not shoot them very well and needed follow-up shots. The "X" performed perfectly and retained 90+ percent weight. One follow-up was a facing shot at close range. The bullet entered the neck and was found under the hide on the opposite hip. That is tremendous penetration and weight retention. The old Barnes expanded fine, no matter which angle or location.

I talked to people that worked on the military ranges. They saw Oryx killed with everything from a .243 and 90 grain Speers on up. They also told me that they had chased shot ones a long way, after having been shot through the lungs. They are very tough, but not infallible. The mons offer the confidence of proven penetration, no matter where you shoot them.
 

nuevo_eph

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Absolutely - I have no regrets on how I shot the oryx through the "elbows" twice. It was right for that guy I got in Februrary, I just wonder about mule deer if I get a chance in November. My plan after all of this feedback will be to go for lungs since I am going to be shooting at short enough distances that the bullet will be above 2100 fps, the apparent internet anecdotal minimum speed for expansion.

Right on. Especially if it is close, it does not matter which you shoot, as the bullet will expand due to high velocity. Shot through the shoulders, you may lose some meat, but the animal will be right there. I will take that trade anytime. I have shot plenty of animals through the shoulder and only lost parts of the shoulder.

Lots of people do not realize that you have to shoot Oryx farther ahead than deer, antelope, elk etc. This means that you are already going to be closer to the big bones. The appropriate shot is straight up the front leg. The vitals of African antelope are farther ahead in the body cavity.
 

Southwind

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I typically go for a double lung or heart shot, however there are times when an anchor shot is in your best interest especially in very rugged terrain.
 

SixPoint

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Here's been my experience with copper. I'd say aim where you traditionally would and if it hits bone there won't be nearly the damage caused like shooting a lead core bullet. I don't think I would intentionally aim for a from leg but that's just me. Compared to lead there is less fragmentation and shock upon impact, but anything that is shot through both lungs isn't going far.

http://onyourownadventures.com/hunttalk/showthread.php?266035-Copper-Anyone&highlight=sixpoint
 

sbhooper

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Absolutely - I have no regrets on how I shot the oryx through the "elbows" twice. It was right for that guy I got in Februrary, I just wonder about mule deer if I get a chance in November. My plan after all of this feedback will be to go for lungs since I am going to be shooting at short enough distances that the bullet will be above 2100 fps, the apparent internet anecdotal minimum speed for expansion.

You will not have any issues with that setup.
 
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