Rem 7MM Mag

[belly-deep]

No real proof of claims, infact quite the opposite on everything I read at 24hourcampfire. And yes there is a difference in flight performance depending on the BC of the bullet, not the brand. No magic, just math. You can confirm this at bestoftehwest or huskemaw on their bc calculator.

Anything else belly?

He just said his long range will be 500 yards.

Are you telling me you can't hit a mule deer at 500 yards with an Accubond?

 

[1_pointer]

I took it to mean that it would drop/drift less than the Accubond. But, according to my wife, I'm not all that attentive to what others are saying...

 

[Ridgerunner1CO]

One time as a season approached I found myself without my favorite Nosler handloads for my 7 mag and no time to load any. I went out and purchased a box of Remington 150gr Corelokt ammo, which was recomended by a relative, and went to the shooting range finding out the three shot grouping was as good as my handloads!! Since then I've used them very effectively and at times long distances on both deer and elk with great success.
The 150 grain is my favorite weight for both deer and elk - it's fast,flat shooting and been very rewarding!
Obviously there are a lot of other great combinations and brands of ammo both handloaded and factory so there are plenty of choices out there. Good Luck and great hunting as it is a great calibur.

 

[noharleyyet]

Yep..you want to start a pissin' match, just ask about favorite bullets.

..or extoll or denigrate the virtues of the 30-06.

I'm with Buzz on the 160 gr. for western hunting but wouldn't hesitate using an accubond for both muley or elk...or a Barnes TSX.

 

[belly-deep]

I took it to mean that it would drop/drift less than the Accubond. But, according to my wife, I'm not all that attentive to what others are saying...

I know that. The point I'm trying to make is that BC alone is a poor reason to pick a bullet when shooting at distances up to 500 yards. In all likelihood, the hunter will be presented with shots much closer most of the time and would be better served with a more conventionally-constructed bullet.

Even when they act like they are supposed to, Bergers don't punch through both shoulders or penetrate deep enough to reach the vitals on a steep quartering-away shot. Why whould you pick a bullet that will not let you take the closer, steeply quartering shots in favor of one that will let you aim a couple of inches lower at 500 yards?

Call me crazy, but I'll take the better penetrating bullet any day, even if it means I have to hold a few more inches high for the 500 yarders.

 

[BuzzH]

Belly-deep,

Good point...I dont set my rifle up, or buy a bullet for the 5% of the time that combo would work. I set it up for the 95% of the time...which is moderate ranges in my situation.

Most any bullet will work fine at 500 yards...closer is the potential issue and it only makes sense to eliminate that issue since a vast majority of the time I'll be much closer.

But, I learned the hard way myself, and dont expect others to be much different, its just part of it.

 

[Drake4]

Good point...I dont set my rifle up, or buy a bullet for the 5% of the time that combo would work. I set it up for the 95% of the time...which is moderate ranges in my situation.

Me as well. I think I've killed 1 animal over 500 yards..a couple lopes in the 400-500 yard range. 95% of my shots are 50 to 300 yards.

Even when they act like they are supposed to, Bergers don't punch through both shoulders or penetrate deep enough to reach the vitals on a steep quartering-away shot.

In my experience, that isn't true. For me, the bergers have produced the most devastating results out of any bullet I have seen, close range shots included.

 

[BuzzH]

Why do close shots have to be devastating?

Animals shot with partitions or accubonds dont die from close range shots?

Devastating=big fuggin' mess...I'd rather not deal with that.

 

[1_pointer]

I know that. The point I'm trying to make is that BC alone is a poor reason to pick a bullet when shooting at distances up to 500 yards. In all likelihood, the hunter will be presented with shots much closer most of the time and would be better served with a more conventionally-constructed bullet.

Even when they act like they are supposed to, Bergers don't punch through both shoulders or penetrate deep enough to reach the vitals on a steep quartering-away shot. Why whould you pick a bullet that will not let you take the closer, steeply quartering shots in favor of one that will let you aim a couple of inches lower at 500 yards?

Call me crazy, but I'll take the better penetrating bullet any day, even if it means I have to hold a few more inches high for the 500 yarders.

'Twas just answering your question you posed as I saw it. I've never used a AB or Berger, so don't have any personal experience to share. I'll call you crazy because you asked me to... Besides, there are lots of bullets that should penetrate farther than an Accubond, so you should probably use those.

Personally, for deer/pronghorns I'd take about any shot angle offered me with about any bullet. Even the big ones, aren't all that big. Add elk to the question and I'd probably change my answer.

 

[Drake4]

Why do close shots have to be devastating?

Animals shot with partitions or accubonds dont die from close range shots?

Devastating=big fuggin' mess...I'd rather not deal with that.

They don't have to be.

I bet they do..I think the Noslers are good bullets, and I wouldn't hesitate to use one.

Just stating my experience with the bergers and that I wouldn't hesitate to shoot at any angle, any range, as I have had great results.

Devastating for me = dead animal, quick kill, limited tracking, no meat loss.

 

[BuzzH]

I'll give you 3 of 4 on the devastating issue...not sold on the last one.

 

[Drake4]

No meat loss is the goal, and I have had pretty good results achieving it with the bergers. Not saying it doesn't happen though. I don't shoot for bone and try to blow up the front shoulders like a lot of people think you need to do. The majority of the time I get a complete pass thru and lose very little meat. I'm sure similar results could be achieved with the Noslers.

Like I said before..people get way too worked up over bullets IMO. Hit an animal in the boiler room, and a quality bullet will do the job. Shot placement is key.

I was just responding to Belly's comments about bergers not working a close range.

 

[BuzzH]

I agree, I just find its pretty tough to stay off the shoulders even close to 100% of the time with shot angles and bullets not following straight lines through animals...no matter what bullet you choose, how good your rifle shoots, or how much I try not to hit shoulders.

I dont like the mess so stick with better construction qualities in bullets to avoid the inevitable and cut down on the mess when it happens.

Glad the bergers are working out for you...and glad to hear results first-hand.

 

[gundog]

I wasn't suggesting hunting with the A-Max--the jackets are pretty thin. I was only indicating that it was the best performing 7mm bullet I've ever shot in the wind.

 

[1_pointer]

WOW!! Sounds like two different bullets, chosen by two different 'dudes' have led to some dead critters. Who would've thought...

PS- If all goes well, I hope to stick either a Berger or a scenar in a couple of pronghorns this coming fall.

 

[npaden]

Here's a recovered E-Tip from a New Mexico mule deer. It was facing straight at me and I shot through the chest at about 50 yards. Found the bullet just inside the skin before it would have entered the left hindquarter. 99% weight retention and expanded really well.

Recovered another E-tip from this years New Mexico muley as well. It was a severe quartering away shot and the bullet entered just in front of the hindquarter in the guts and ended up inside the skin right at the base of the chest. 99% weight retention on it as well, but all the petals folded back on that one.

I used the gutless method on both of them so never looked inside to see the damage but both animals hit the ground on the spot.

I recovered one accubond on an elk and it probably had 80% weight retention, but lost some lead and actually didn't have quite the exansion that the E-tip did.

I'm probably going to stick with the E-tip even though it is a little lighter and has a little less energy at the muzzle. I really like how well it stays together, unless it is a crazy angle it generally has a clean pass through and doesn't make a mess at all.

My 2 cents. Not worth any more than that though.

Nathan

 

[belly-deep]

No meat loss is the goal, and I have had pretty good results achieving it with the bergers. Not saying it doesn't happen though. I don't shoot for bone and try to blow up the front shoulders like a lot of people think you need to do. The majority of the time I get a complete pass thru and lose very little meat. I'm sure similar results could be achieved with the Noslers.

Like I said before..people get way too worked up over bullets IMO. Hit an animal in the boiler room, and a quality bullet will do the job. Shot placement is key.

I was just responding to Belly's comments about bergers not working a close range.

I never said they wouldn't work at close range, certainly they will. But I don't see them as a reliable bullet for shooting at shorter distances. On broadside shots they seem to be fine. The problem is, much shooting is not at broadside animals, and I don't like the idea of passing on those critters.

John Barsness did a good write-up on Bergers when they first became popular hunting bullets. He went to New Zealand or something and shot a bunch of critters with them. He found that the bullets penetrate a few inches and then explode. Whatever the first few inches is, they will get through it--shoulder, ribs, whatever. After that they disintegrate. It results in quick kills when animals are hit properly. He also noted that the bullets would act similarly if they had to penetrate the paunch first, and so on shots with a hard angle to them, the bullets did not make it to the vitals. From what I have read about the bullets from others who have used them, John's experience is pretty consistent with Berger bullets.

For all of the shooting the guys on 24hourcampfire have done with bergers, I have yet to see someone post a nicely mushroomed bullet. none. nada. The things just plain vaporize inside of game. I don't really want that going on at the business end of my rifle.

 

[Drake4]

All I can tell you is that the majority of the time I get complete pass thrus, and have had great results at all angles. The times I have hit shoulder blade, the animal did not take a step. The bergers along with the scenars are definitely becoming more popular as a lot of people are having great results with them. I'm not trying to convince people to use them, just sharing my results along with quite a few others I know that are using them.

I try to stay away from 24-hour campfire. Someday if I want to read 72 pages about "What a piece of sh*% so-and-so is" then I'll spend more time over there.

Arguing about bullets isn't much different than wrestling with a pig.

 

[Brock-ID]

Thanks everybody for all of the suggestions, I appreciate the help.

 

[danr55]

Best advice anyone can give you is try any and everything you can find. Let the rifle tell you what it likes. Pretty boxes and big names don't necessarily impress your rifle barrel. When you find an ammo that your rifle shoots well, buy as much of the same lot as you can find and afford. Save it and shoot it spairingly. Better a bullet/powder combination that the rifle likes than something that looks nice or has a big name or ?? The rifle will let you know when you've found a combination that it likes. Just make sure that the bore is clean and the stock is tight and all of the other little hints that are passed around.