Relax, Everything is Going to be Okay!

[bayoublaster7527]

Any interesting thing occurred to me while watching debate and testimony regarding one of the many anti-gun bills that is moving through the Colorado General Assembly, specifically the expansion of the red flag law. Many opponents frequently brought up concerns with firearms owners right to due process being violated when weapons are seized after an emergency risk protection order is granted. The action is taken without the respondent given a hearing or ability to respond. The sponsors of the bill discounted the concern stating that an emergency risk protection order protection order is a civil order and individuals are only guaranteed due process in criminal proceedings.

But those same politicians consistently criticize immigration actions as a violation of due process. But immigration actions and violations are civil also, correct?

So non-citizens who entered the country illegally should be granted due process in civil proceedings but citizens are not granted due process when it comes to firearm owners? Hard to follow the logic and hypocrisy with our elected officials in Denver. Maybe I am missing something.

 

[jimh406]

So non-citizens who entered the country illegally should be granted due process in civil proceedings but citizens are not granted due process when it comes to firearm owners? Hard to follow the logic and hypocrisy with our elected officials in Denver. Maybe I am missing something.

I don't think you are missing anything.

 

[SAJ-99]

You are correct, it was an incorrect use of the word rights. So guy with a green card in the military notwithstanding, does some who illegally enters the country have the same 2nd Amendment "rights" that citizens have?

It is not that simple to answer, particularly because it involves the 2A. You have to look at the legislative rules on immigration that have come into being over the last 250 years. If he came in illegally and later got a green card, yes. If came in legally with a green card and it was later revoked or it expired, then probably no. But in terms of 4th amendment, yes. Because busting into a house to determine if any laws were being broken was the whole point of the amendment.

I think we all want to simplify immigration in a way that is easy for us to wrap our heads around, as in "if X then Y." That would require making the process much simpler. Many Americans are against that for reasons buried deep in the lizard brain section of the mind. It's is hard to determine if the politicians are trying to tap that lizard-brain section of the mind in voters or if some politicians just have lizard brains.

 

[88man]

If only we agreed on the definition of illegal. Most of the people ICE is targeting have the legal right to be here, they just are not citizens--yet. The administration even ordered final citizenship celebrations to be stopped for people that did it all right and were to be granted citizenship, so they can be detained and add to the quota numbers of individual officers and add to the total the administration is falsely claiming "Worst of the worst, taken off our streets".

There isn't nearly as much dispute over those here illegally who have not sought asylum, green cards, been working and contributing to the economy etc. as most that still support the administration think. It's all the abuses going after people doing it right--and people that ARE US citizens--that is the main problem.

"Most of the people ICE is targeting have the legal right to be here, they just are not citizens--yet.">>>>>> How in the hell would you know this? How do you have the math on who they are targeting? BIG OPINION!>>>> What makes you think they have any plans to become a citizen??
Entering the USA with out proper documentation is a criminal offense! Fact not debatable!
Overstaying a visa or a documented stay is a civil offense.

 

[Irrelevant]

Any interesting thing occurred to me while watching debate and testimony regarding one of the many anti-gun bills that is moving through the Colorado General Assembly, specifically the expansion of the red flag law. Many opponents frequently brought up concerns with firearms owners right to due process being violated when weapons are seized after an emergency risk protection order is granted. The action is taken without the respondent given a hearing or ability to respond. The sponsors of the bill discounted the concern stating that an emergency risk protection order protection order is a civil order and individuals are only guaranteed due process in criminal proceedings.

But those same politicians consistently criticize immigration actions as a violation of due process. But immigration actions and violations are civil also, correct?

So non-citizens who entered the country illegally should be granted due process in civil proceedings but citizens are not granted due process when it comes to firearm owners? Hard to follow the logic and hypocrisy with our elected officials in Denver. Maybe I am missing something.

The only thing I would postulate as a nuance is that red flag laws are useless unless they can be implemented immediately. And you could never attain due process immediately.

If your daughter (or in my case, sister) was shot to death by the person for whom she just obtained a restraining order against, and both your and their families were concerned about them having guns based on their immediate reactions to the order, I highly doubt you'd be concerned with due process. Thankfully, WA upheld the red flag request, and everything "worked out". I think they eventually got their weapons back, but have since been convicted of other felonies.

Due process doesn't mean you're not first taken to jail.

 

[Bonasababy]

"Most of the people ICE is targeting have the legal right to be here, they just are not citizens--yet.">>>>>> How in the hell would you know this? How do you have the math on who they are targeting? BIG OPINION!>>>> What makes you think they have any plans to become a citizen??
Entering the USA with out proper documentation is a criminal offense! Fact not debatable!
Overstaying a visa or a documented stay is a civil offense.

I have posted link after link on exactly what you think I am just stating my opinion on. Zero need to make anything up, all the evidence is out there....

Included are multiple cases where judges have ordered illegally detained people to be released. People who have applied correctly for asylum, people with green cards, people who have met every requirement on the path to becoming a citizen ...

 

[Handlebar]

I have posted link after link on exactly what you think I am just stating my opinion on. Zero need to make anything up, all the evidence is out there....

Included are multiple cases where judges have ordered illegally detained people to be released. People who have applied correctly for asylum, people with green cards, people who have met every requirement on the path to becoming a citizen ...

Unless I missed something you posted the Reuters article indicated 4400 arrests. The Guardian stated in December that 325,000 had been arrested that is 0.013 % "bad" arrests. Nobody or no agency is going to be able to handle and bat 100%

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I have posted link after link on exactly what you think I am just stating my opinion on. Zero need to make anything up, all the evidence is out there....

Included are multiple cases where judges have ordered illegally detained people to be released. People who have applied correctly for asylum, people with green cards, people who have met every requirement on the path to becoming a citizen ...

I dont think there's a lot of pushback against the fact that some people have been scooped who were here legally. But they claim there's been like 675k people moved (or deported?). So even 10s of thousands of people erroneously targeted/taken doesn't approach the "Most" threshold you claimed.

 

[Nuts]

As stated before. Tell me your opinion and I can provide proof. News and the internet notoriously write articles to create opinions. As you can see from these posts and what people believe it is very effective. Rarely the entire story. Just hand picked headlines and info. Flat earth opinion. No problem. The options are endless