Relax, Everything is Going to be Okay!

[Wildabeest]

Two things - 1) I wouldn't solely rely on AI for any bit of information (nor MSN but that is a different conversation) and 2) the proposed SAVE act references the REAL ID Act of 2005 which is now 20+ years old.

Beyond that, I am not tracking your response. Per AZ Govt, their RealID fully complies with the REAL ID Act of 2005 and their enhanced version meets proof of US citizenship as I noted in my response. The fact that both you and I got very different responses from an internet AI search assistant merely shows the danger of relying on AI. Please elaborate if necessary.

RealID and Enhanced Driver’s Licenses are different things. EDL’s do indicate citizenship, and can be used as a substitute for a passport when traveling to/from certain countries. They can also be used as a substitute for an actual RealID for purposes of domestic air travel. And in theory they could be used as a valid proof of citizenship as contemplated in the current language of the SAVE Act. But they are not RealID’s. Only 5 states issue EDL’s, and AZ is not one of them.

https://www.dhs.gov/enhanced-drivers-licenses-what-are-they

Therefore, it is possible that select individuals with EDL’s from those 5 states could use their EDL to prove citizenship for voting, but the other 99+% of voters will not be able to use a driver’s license if the SAVE Act passes because their driver’s license does not prove citizenship even if it is a RealID. The current language in the act is very specific that the RealID must prove citizenship to be valid for registering to vote. They don’t, and therefore they aren’t. Whether they made that language intentionally confusing will be left to the conspiracy theorists.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

No ID is illegal on stolen lands!
No vote is illegal on stolen lands!
**sarcasm**

 

[Bonasababy]

But why do they change? There's definitely some feedback looping occuring, parties shift because of some voters, other voters are forced to shift because there are only two parties, and unless you want "the other guy" to win, you plug your nose and vote, which is a form of affirmation. Repeat.

I think we should also admit that the very nature of "progressivism" implies a constant shift to correct every wrong.

The term "progressive" has been bastardized by the move towards the extremes on the right.

Was a time when republicans were pushing progressive ideas to fix society's problems. Not any more...they are against anything new and call every new idea extreme/ ultra liberal/dangerous.

No better example than Healthcare, and the affordable care act. Which operated the same as the version republican Mitt Romney started when he was governor in an eastern state. Romneycare!

That idea..supported by others in the republican party at the time...soon was labeled Obama care, extreme socialist, and worse....which continues today.

If republicans could get back to not discounting/labeling and attacking every progressive idea they would do very well.

 

[Irrelevant]

The term "progressive" has been bastardized by the move towards the extremes on the right.

Was a time when republicans were pushing progressive ideas to fix society's problems. Not any more...they are against anything new and call every new idea extreme/ ultra liberal/dangerous.

No better example than Healthcare, and the affordable care act. Which operated the same as the version republican Mitt Romney started when he was governor in an eastern state. Romneycare!

Ok, but prior to the mid 1900s, subsidized health care wasn't a thing at all.

That idea..supported by others in the republican party at the time...soon was labeled Obama care, extreme socialist, and worse....which continues today.

If republicans could get back to not discounting/labeling and attacking every progressive idea they would do very well.

But we don't move to the right, we may temporarily move right from where we last were, but we are only ever shift to the left, outside of maybe the tax code, which I think we're at about the least progressive we've ever been (and not in total taxes, but in who pays for them).

 

[Nick87]

Ok, but prior to the mid 1900s, subsidized health care wasn't a thing at all.

But we don't move to the right, we may temporarily move right from where we last were, but we are only ever shift to the left, outside of maybe the tax code, which I think we're at about the least progressive we've ever been (and not in total taxes, but in who pays for them).

The ignore button is an invigorating experience here, I only recently discovered. Game changer. 10/10 highly recommend.

 

[mtmuley]

The ignore button is an invigorating experience here, I only recently discovered. Game changer. 10/10 highly recommend.

I can't do it. I like to see the stuff for myself. mtmuley

 

[Nick87]

I can't do it. I like to see the stuff for myself. mtmuley

I get it. Thats why I didnt say ignore everybody lol.

 

[mtmuley]

I get it. Thats why I didnt say ignore everybody lol.

Our ignore lists would probably line up. mtmuley

 

[Irrelevant]

The ignore button is an invigorating experience here, I only recently discovered. Game changer. 10/10 highly recommend.

I started using it years ago. But I think there's only 3 people on mine

 

[Hunting Wife]

Look up enhanced RealID. Then combine with H.R. 22 below (bold and italics are mine for emphasis). That's the point. You stated RealID is irrelevant. H.R. 22 says otherwise.
H.R. 22 - SAVE Act Sec.2.b. - Documentary proof of United States citizenship.—As used in this Act, the term ‘documentary proof of United States citizenship’ means, with respect to an applicant for voter registration, any of the following:
“(1) A form of identification issued consistent with the requirements of the REAL ID Act of 2005 that indicates the applicant is a citizen of the United States.

Also, per H.R. 22, one can use a regular state issued ID (e.g., driver's license, non-enhanced RealID, etc.) in combination with a birth certificate to prove US citizenship.

Finally, the AI overlord is not a reliable source of information. I would encourage you to dig a little deeper.

I’ve dug. You repeatedly said Real ID. I’m pointing out that’s not accurate. Simple.

Also, not relying on AI but it gives a great summary faster than typing it up myself. Many state websites and federal flat out tell you Real ID is not proof of citizenship.

 

[BrentD]

RealID and Enhanced Driver’s Licenses are different things. EDL’s do indicate citizenship, and can be used as a substitute for a passport when traveling to/from certain countries. They can also be used as a substitute for an actual RealID for purposes of domestic air travel. And in theory they could be used as a valid proof of citizenship as contemplated in the current language of the SAVE Act. But they are not RealID’s. Only 5 states issue EDL’s, and AZ is not one of them.

https://www.dhs.gov/enhanced-drivers-licenses-what-are-they

Therefore, it is possible that select individuals with EDL’s from those 5 states could use their EDL to prove citizenship for voting, but the other 99+% of voters will not be able to use a driver’s license if the SAVE Act passes because their driver’s license does not prove citizenship even if it is a RealID. The current language in the act is very specific that the RealID must prove citizenship to be valid for registering to vote. They don’t, and therefore they aren’t. Whether they made that language intentionally confusing will be left to the conspiracy theorists.

I never saw or heard anything about EDLs when I got my RID. Would have been convenient at the time.