Please bring me up to date on scope reticles

[Paul in Idaho]

My only hunting rifle is a Ruger M77 .30-06 I bought about 20 years ago. I have been using an off-brand basic scope on it. It's time to upgrade.

I looked through the selection at Cabela's recently, and found that things have changed a lot! The employee helping me at Cabela's showed me Nikon and Leupold scopes with reticles that adapt for different ranges. I came here to learn more and found CDS 101 for dummies, and also found Leupold's CDS page.

Can you guys give me some input on a reasonable solution? I'm not a long-range hunter. My longest shot on game has been about 250 yards. However, I would like a reticle that could help me make accurate shots at 400-500 yards if I need a follow-up shot in open country. I want something that is easy to use, and doesn't require having a ballistics table taped to my gun. Some areas I hunt are fairly thick, so I don't want a scope with tall turrets sticking out on 3 sides to catch on branches.

I'd like to keep the price around $500, but if there's a compelling reason to spend more, I could wait to buy until I save up enough.

Thanks.
Paul

 

[HighDesertSage]

Vortex has the best warranty out there. I broke my tripod last week, totally my fault. I emailed them a picture of what happened and received the replacement parts 2 days later in the mail. No questions asked. I think they make quality optics at a reasonable price as well. I haven't had very good luck with Leupold lately.

 

[HighDesertSage]

Check out the Viper and Diamondback. That's what I use.

 

[T Bone]

Assuming you stick with one load in the '06, I'd go. Leupold VX2 with CDS.

For hunting I prefer a Leupold with an elevation turret only. Chart is on my stock. If the range is over 300 and the setup is ideal, I'll laser the range, click in the elevation, dope wind, squeeze trigger, notch the tag.

Look up Schmalts. He's a Leupold dealer.

 

[SFC B]

Here is my new rig with the Vortex I bought. It retails +-499 and you can get it cheaper (a little) if you look around. It has a BDC reticle and paralax adjustment. The optics are incredible. I am gong to zero TUE and will tell you how the ticks on the BDC line up at the range...they are supposed to be +- 100 yard intervals.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Assuming you stick with one load in the '06, I'd go. Leupold VX2 with CDS.

For hunting I prefer a Leupold with an elevation turret only. Chart is on my stock. If the range is over 300 and the setup is ideal, I'll laser the range, click in the elevation, dope wind, squeeze trigger, notch the tag.

Look up Schmalts. He's a Leupold dealer.

Word. Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Biscuit Hunter]

A couple of things to consider about ballistic reticles:

First, most of these scopes have the reticle in the second focal plane. This means that as you change the magnification on the scope, the distance you see between the stadia lines will change in relation to the target. The drop lines will only correspond to your bullets trajectory at one magnification, usually the highest.

Put more simply-- if your scope is calibrated to work at 9x, and you take a shot using one of the holdover lines with the scope set at say, 6x, you will hit high.

Before taking a shot using a holdover line for reference you will need to verify that your magnification is set correctly.

The second thing to consider-- and more important to me-- is the fact that your bullet starts dropping real quick when you get out there. Most ballistic reticles are set at 100 yard intervals, but at distance, your 50 yard drops will be significant.

For a 180gr bullet out of a 30-06, your bullet will drop about 7.5 inches between 300-350 yards. Between 400-450 yards, about 11 inches. You will need to account for this using holdover on the critter.

I've had a ballistic reticle on my 300 WM for years, but I've never really felt comfortable using it at distance. For me, it's just clutter.

In contrast, a CDS Leupold can be dialed for those intermediate ranges, and used at whatever magnification you want. Just hold on the critter where you want the bullet to hit.

The downside is that the dial will only be set for one load, so you'll have to stick to that load.

As far as the turret height on the CDS goes, it's not that much higher than a standard turret, certainly not enough to be a problem in brush.

As was mentioned above, Schmalts will give you a great deal on a Leupold. The link to his online store-- Predator Optics-- is at the top of the page.

 

[Gunner46]

Can't say enough good about the Leupold CDS, love it. You get two load dials w/purchase so you can have at least a couple of options for loads. One word of caution though, don't trust mfg published ballistics, use a chrono first and be sure of the true velocity before ordering the dials. You should be good out to the 225-250 mark w/o any hold over issue, but beyond that it's just dial & squeeeeze.

 

[Big Fin]

A couple of things to consider about ballistic reticles:

First, most of these scopes have the reticle in the second focal plane. This means that as you change the magnification on the scope, the distance you see between the stadia lines will change in relation to the target. The drop lines will only correspond to your bullets trajectory at one magnification, usually the highest.

Put more simply-- if your scope is calibrated to work at 9x, and you take a shot using one of the holdover lines with the scope set at say, 6x, you will hit high.

Before taking a shot using a holdover line for reference you will need to verify that your magnification is set correctly.

The second thing to consider-- and more important to me-- is the fact that your bullet starts dropping real quick when you get out there. Most ballistic reticles are set at 100 yard intervals, but at distance, your 50 yard drops will be significant.

For a 180gr bullet out of a 30-06, your bullet will drop about 7.5 inches between 300-350 yards. Between 400-450 yards, about 11 inches. You will need to account for this using holdover on the critter.

I've had a ballistic reticle on my 300 WM for years, but I've never really felt comfortable using it at distance. For me, it's just clutter.

In contrast, a CDS Leupold can be dialed for those intermediate ranges, and used at whatever magnification you want. Just hold on the critter where you want the bullet to hit.

The downside is that the dial will only be set for one load, so you'll have to stick to that load.

As far as the turret height on the CDS goes, it's not that much higher than a standard turret, certainly not enough to be a problem in brush.

As was mentioned above, Schmalts will give you a great deal on a Leupold. The link to his online store-- Predator Optics-- is at the top of the page.

I had previously considered stating this when other threads were started on reticles. I did not post it, as it would sound too much like pitching for the home team. What you stated is correct. And, that does make a difference, unless you decide you want your variable power to be essentially fixed at whatever power used to zero your rifle.

I think most who use the CDS in hunting situations find it to be the simplest, most efficient system out there. When my guest hunters use mine, or I let guys out at the range try it, I really don't have to give much of a pitch to convince them that this is a great solution for hunting.

If I was into turret systems and wanted to take the time needed to consistently shoot over 500 yards, I would look at one of the Leupold Mark 4 scopes. They require more time and investment, plus a good understanding of how the turret systems work.

The CDS is designed to be simple to use, fast to adjust, and extremely accurate at normal hunting ranges. I suspect most would agree that is does exactly that.

Like others said, if you want the best deal out there, go to Schmalt's Predator Optics at these links -

VX-3 http://predatoroptics.info/catalog/product.asp?pid=68088&ret_id=1185759

VX-2 http://predatoroptics.info/catalog/product.asp?ret_id=1185759&pid=79511​

And, there is no optics company that comes close to matching the investment that Leupold makes in conservation and hunting. Another reason to consider their American-made rifle scopes.

 

[schmalts]

What Randy and the other poster said about the ballistics reticle is true. Changing the magnification changes the spacing of the lines but it is also how it works for you. You zero the gun at 100 or 200 and then shoot at 400 and dial it in by changing the zoom level. Because the center zero line will not change it stays the same but the 400 yard line changes. When you get the 400 yard point hitting true by changing the zoom while shooting at 400 all the other yardage points will fall in place very close. What most guys do is then put a little paint mark on the zoom setting at the calibrated zoom.

 

[schmalts]

Also remember if you shop at the predatoroptics store the oyoaleup coupon code is still 10% off.

 

[ccc23454]

Vortex Viper HS 2.5-10x44 $299.99 I in stock right now @ cameraland as a demo, which you will be very happy with. This is the best scope on the market for the money and shooting distance your looking at and compares favorably to scopes twice the money. its a 30mm tube, BDC reticle protected resettable zero turrets comes with sunshade and is awesome glass with the best warranty on the market, any reason its damaged they fix or replace regardless of how it broke. we all like different optics so I encourage everyone to look for what there eyes like best but if you don't have that option you will be happy with this scope.

 

[jryoung]

I'd skip the variable option and get the 6x36 or 6x42 leupold with CDS. Stupid simple, light, effective in timber and plenty of eye relief. I have this on both my 06's and am getting one for my wife's 7x57.

 

[1_pointer]

Also know that CDS turrets can be had with a numbered MOA scale. They do not have to be load specific. I like jryoung's suggestion.

 

[sagebrush]

Leupold, CDS, Schmalts. I would save up for the VX3. The last two scopes I bought were 4.5-14X40 with the MOA dial, which comes with the scope. Using the MOA dial, you can make a chart every time you change loads and you can also order a dial etched for any particular load anytime from Leupold, if that's your preference. You can easily generate a drop chart using the free software at http://www.gseven.com/ballistic-program. I made a chart, laminated it and carry it along with my range finder in the case. On shots that are going to require a dial adjustment, you will have plenty of time to range, look up and make the adjustment.

 

[Paul in Idaho]

Thank you all for the suggestions of brands, and explanation of reticles. Biscuit Hunter - the shift with magnification is one of the things that had me worried about the new reticles. I often reduce my scope magnification in timber/brush, then increase it when I enter open country. I could see potential for problems if I came out of timber into the open, saw a bull at a distance, and forgot to dial it back up.

It's good to hear the comments from everyone on the simplicity of CDS. It sounds much simpler here than what the guy at the store told me.

I'll start setting some $ aside, and look at all the brands mentioned here. Leupold sounds like it's in the lead though.

Thanks again. Next step, off to the range to make sure my old scope is still accurate, for my elk hunt that starts the 1st.

Paul

 

[Wyatt G]

When your ready to buy check out camera land ny they got some great deals on demo scopes i bought my last scope from them and they were great to deal with, saved me about 150 bucks...right now they got a vortex viper hs 2.5-10x44 with the bdc for 299 which is a great deal....i had a leupold vx-2 4-12x50 cds i got from the cabelas bargain cave for 250 but like an idiot i sold it with my howa so i could get a new bow but it was a great scope and super simple to use, I just used the moa dial and a drop chart...but if you go vortex or leupold you'll be happy either way.

 

[chuckyd313]

I put the Vortex Diamondback BDC on all my rifles. I love them and they only cost about 250.00. its good quality and it doesnt break the bank.

 

[mtmuley]

The Leupold VX-2 is one Hell of a scope for the money. Like Randy said, American and involved. Warranty was mentioned and Leupold's warranty and customer service take a back seat to no other company. There are some new optics companies out there, but Leupold has been building scopes a long time. I trust them. mtmuley

 

[goinhuntn]

You can't go wrong with vortex!! I would also look at the Redfield revolution made in the usa by leupold