People from Missoula

[Nemont]

What exactly do Missoulians want when it comes to energy?

People from Missoula don't even want oil equipment to pass through their town. They don't want to allow any energy development but when it comes to funding their schools their State Legislators want the oil money from Eastern MT school districts.

So now UM wants to convert to a "Green" Biomass Plant and that is opposed.

Strange town.

http://helenair.com/news/article_833b17f2-34e4-11e0-965e-001cc4c03286.html

Yet Rep. Sue Malek, D-Missoula, said she was “troubled” by how Sidney had underestimated its oil-and-gas revenue and received millions of extra dollars over the past several years.

“You’ve got a lot of money, and I feel cheated, living in a part of the state that is having difficulty with closing our schools,” she said.

Missoula citizen council opposes UM biomass plant

Associated Press The Billings Gazette | Posted: Thursday, June 9, 2011 8:57 am |

.MISSOULA - A citizen's air quality advisory council is opposed to a planned University of Montana biomass gasification plant.

The Missoula County Air Quality Advisory Council says the project will increase pollutants and undermine efforts to reduce wood burning in the Missoula valley.

The Missoulian reports the council wrote a letter to the Air Pollution Control Board Tuesday, asking the board to ensure air pollution can continue to be controlled.

The university's plant would be the cleanest-burning woody biomass boiler in the state, but it would emit more pollutants than the existing natural gas heating system.

UM has released an environmental assessment in which the university found the project would cause no major adverse impact to the environment.

A preliminary determination granting UM an air quality permit is out for public comment

 

[RockyDog]

i lived in missoula for 12 years.

those hippy geniuses will burn hundreds of gallons to drive to a concert, dine in seattle, or play frisbee golf. But any other use of of fuel is evil.

What drives me nuts is they cant seem to understand that highway transportation of a piece of metal equipment is not going to result in a huge oil spill. They equate a large piece of metal driving through on a flatbed trailer to a tanker truck.

Also when the forest service wants to thin a hundred acres there will be thousands of comments, but when a ski area wants to thin 100s of acres timber to create more runs you can hear crickets.

Missoula is a bathtub full of dirty filthy hippy trustfund hipocrites that think they are saving the world because they dont flush their toilet, meanwhile the city water systems loses 30-40% of its water to leaks.

 

[Horn Seeker]

Lmfao!!!!!!!

 

[CJ...$]

Can't they burn hemp for fuel?

 

[Ben Lamb]

What drives me nuts is they cant seem to understand that highway transportation of a piece of metal equipment is not going to result in a huge oil spill. They equate a large piece of metal driving through on a flatbed trailer to a tanker truck.

Actually, the suit has to do with the MDT not properly analyzing the issue at hand. It has nothing to do with oil spills. The issue is whether or not MDT properly analyzed the route regarding one area where they want to construct pull outs. The area is in a flood plain, and is currently under water.

Also, it's interesting to see the route chosen: Over 12, to 200, up the Blackfoot, down Roger's Pass, along the Front to Canada. They couldn't have chosen a worse path for these loads. Alternate paths were discussed, but were ruled out because the company would have to cut the modules in half to make sure the went under the I-90 and I-15 bridges.

As for the rest, I tend to agree. But I would say that there are few towns in MT that have a 2:1 ratio between chicks and dudes.

 

[Ben Lamb]

BTW - The Montana Wildlife Federation has had nothing to do with this lawsuit, or the issue in general. These are simply my thoughts on it.

 

[belly-deep]

those hippy geniuses will burn hundreds of gallons to drive to a concert, dine in seattle, or play frisbee golf. But any other use of of fuel is evil.

You hit the nail on the head. What a bunch of idiots.

But when gas prices go up, its because big oil is sooo greedy...not because they do stupid stuff like protest the big rigs.

 

[RockyDog]

Actually, the suit has to do with the MDT not properly analyzing the issue at hand. It has nothing to do with oil spills. The issue is whether or not MDT properly analyzed the route regarding one area where they want to construct pull outs. The area is in a flood plain, and is currently under water.

yes true, Ben. In my mind i was thinking of the radio commercial comparing a tanker truck spill up in the flathead to the oil equipment rigs. I think ive also read editorial letters talking about spills, but cant remember a specific letter.

 

[Randy49er]

Ditto Hornseeker!

 

[Dinkshooter]

Rocky's bong is half empty, not half full.

 

[Jezz]

Rocky's bong is half empty, not half full.

That's good, you get a better hit then.

 

[----]

At least we've got good beer

Being anti big rigs and wanting money kicked back from drilling is definitely hypocritical, if you catch the same people with both these opinions.

What's the UM wood burner have to do with it though?

 

[sweetnectar]

Rockdog, you have a wonderful way of putting things. I do wonder what is up with a bunch of hippies trying to stop a piece of equipment that uses a natural resource more efficiently. I mean why not get more useful product from a barrel of oil?...unless you don't mind wasting more of it. I guess when you smoke as much weed as Missoula you don't think straight.

As for cutting a coke drum in half. If it could be done for less than all the millions it costs to haul it whole I'm sure it would be cut in half. I'm guessing the problem comes with the chrome lining.

 

[shoots-straight]

Rockdog, you have a wonderful way of putting things. I do wonder what is up with a bunch of hippies trying to stop a piece of equipment that uses a natural resource more efficiently. I mean why not get more useful product from a barrel of oil?...unless you don't mind wasting more of it. I guess when you smoke as much weed as Missoula you don't think straight.

As for cutting a coke drum in half. If it could be done for less than all the millions it costs to haul it whole I'm sure it would be cut in half. I'm guessing the problem comes with the chrome lining.

You don't think they could have built all that equipment on site, cheaper that shipping it clear from Korea? That's the true BS from all this. Americans could have, and should have been put to work building those on site.

As for the U of M burner, the janitors where the first to oppose it. Also, MIssoula sites in a hole, and during winter months they that chit for air quality. Many times a year they can't burn wood stoves to heat homes because of air quality stage alerts. This would only add to the problem.

 

[MattK]

Shoots straight- that's exactly what I think...instead of building or manufacturing something in the United States...the oil company wants to buy it from Korea and ship it here. BTW- Aren't most of them going to Canada anyways...which we won't see any benefit from other than a few people will stay in a motel and eat a hamburger?

As to the U of M burner...they increase the efficency for wood burning but it's still not as clean burning as the natural gas they currently use. When you are in an area that worries more about air quality than cost (ie. putting ethanol in gasoline during the winter), is this considered a "good idea"?

As for "taking money from gas from the eastern part of the state", there's still a lot of controversy on whether the eastern part of the state received the benefits of the forest and mining industry of the west for the first couple hundred years in Montana. If anything the entire state should be more like WY who tax oil and gas as it leaves the state.

 

[Nemont]

MattK,

You may wish to review how mining and timber revenue was divided between east and west for school funding. Let's just say the Butte Mafia ensured that money didn't flow east of the divide for a "couple of hundred years".

I don't even really care about that. What is funny is that it seems people from Missoula are anti development but want the prosperity development brings. In addition bring oil from Canada, a stable friendly democracy, should a lot more desireable than importing oil from the Middle East. We are not going to end our dependence on oil so would the Tofu eaters in Missoula rather get oil from dictators in South America and the Middle East or from our friend to the North. The Canadian economy is rocking along because they have a policy of developing their resources.

As for where the equipment is manufactured that is a big red herring. I bet even if it were manufactured in the States the Tofu eaters in Missoula would act exactly the same way.

I wish we could have a tax policy like Wyoming. , School Districts are the same as the Counties, The state funds the building of schools and no state income tax. What do you think the chances of ending the coal severance tax and personal income tax are?

Nemont

 

[smalls]

mattk,

you may wish to review how mining and timber revenue was divided between east and west for school funding. Let's just say the butte mafia ensured that money didn't flow west of the divide for a "couple of hundred years". Nemont

reparations now!

 

[Nemont]

reparations now!

Yeah I may have a case for Rev. Al Sharpton to come and help with.

 

[----]

We are not going to end our dependence on oil

Logistics say we will.

I'm not against drilling in the states on private land at all, but the sooner we redirect those resources the better in my opinion.

 

[Ben Lamb]

MattK,

You may wish to review how mining and timber revenue was divided between east and west for school funding. Let's just say the Butte Mafia ensured that money didn't flow east of the divide for a "couple of hundred years".

So is this Eastern MT's form of retribution?

What is funny is that it seems people from Missoula are anti development but want the prosperity development brings. In addition bring oil from Canada, a stable friendly democracy, should a lot more desireable than importing oil from the Middle East. We are not going to end our dependence on oil so would the Tofu eaters in Missoula rather get oil from dictators in South America and the Middle East or from our friend to the North. The Canadian economy is rocking along because they have a policy of developing their resources.

This assumes that the oil refined in Canada will come to America for distribution after refining. This is not always the case. We are an exporter of refined fuels, and especially diesel, except when the industry wants to pump it back in to the ground for fraccing.

Also, when you look at the lawsuit, again, it has nothing to do with the alleged hypocritical stance of those who wish to stop all development while going to Seattle for a show. (How else are they going to travel, if not for fossil fuels? You can see the writing on the wall, call for change, and still be forced to partake in a system that you don't like.) BTW - MT's policy for development has led to record production in the last 10 years. We're way above many other states. That it doesn't happen fast enough for industry is no reason to ignore the fact that MT is developing its resources, and doing so responsibly for the most part.

As for where the equipment is manufactured that is a big red herring. I bet even if it were manufactured in the States the Tofu eaters in Missoula would act exactly the same way.

Honestly, I don't care what the Tofu eaters say or do. What I do care about is my membership that would have loved to have those jobs building drums. I also know that this entire megaloads debate is being framed by industry as being about MT jobs. Sure, there's some jobs for the escort vehicles, and a few meals will be purchased, and some temp jobs are created by building the turnouts, and who knows, maybe a lot of jobs will be created when we have to fix whatever the loads screw up when it comes to road degredation, etc.

I wish we could have a tax policy like Wyoming. , School Districts are the same as the Counties, The state funds the building of schools and no state income tax. What do you think the chances of ending the coal severance tax and personal income tax are?

Wyoming still has a severance tax on coal. Wyoming is also run by the industries that they are supposed to regulate. Having worked at the Legislature in both WY and MT, I can say both have plusses and minuses, and while WY's tax code is better, IMO, I'm not sure we want to emulate the cowboy state too much when it comes to politics, resource development and regulatory mechanisms. Wyoming's sales tax (which I prefer over an income tax) is based on purchasing power, and what people are buying. So, they end up with less money when markets are bad, and more money when they are good. Also, having been a person that lived through the last bust (we moved to Houston because of it. Mother worked in the O&G industry) I can tell you that without a good, diversified economy, you'll never have consistent and sustainable growth.