Outfitting on Public lands

[Gerald Martin]

Until someone can figure out a way to manage human greed there’s always going to be conflict around limited resources.

Removal of public land outfitters isn’t going to change human nature.

 

[antlerradar]

The issue is that hiring an outfitter shouldnt cut you to the front of the line in terms of tag allocation and speed the process up.

In theory - it takes pressure of public land - but that same theory would be wholly applicable if those folks who can justify paying for access did so directly with the landowner without an industry protected by government. Its simply a raw deal for NR DIY hunters and landowners.

I don't think are are talking about the same thing. I was referring to places like the Bob Marshall and Thourfare. Simply not practical and way cheaper for most hunters to hire an outfitter than invest in the gear and livestock needed to hunt those places effectively.

 

[44hunter45]

I might have agreed with the haters until my 2024 Idaho Moose tag. The first scouting trip I realized that my tag was too far in and a moose is too big. Maybe when I was 40, or even 50. But 62 year old me with a worn out spine, nope. I would lose the meat trying to get it out. I contracted with an outfitter. It hurt a little to lower my DIY only flag. It cost a fair bit of coin. Coin I did not have when I was 40, or even 50.

The problems I had on that hunt came with me, not the outfitter. He was not charging me for the land, he was not charging me for the game animal. He was charging me for goods and services to get me where I knew I wanted to be every day. He was charging me to have an experienced guide with me at all times. He was charging me to provide absolutely bomb-proof saddle stock, use of tack, potential field processing of a kill, meat care and hauling, and trophy prep. He fed me like a king, nursed me when I got sick, provided a heated tent and buttload of bucked, cured, and split firewood. On top of all that, he busted his butt to get me on a moose.

He is paying fees to both USFS and to IDFG, he is paying for employees, he is purchasing and caring for livestock, he is paying for both human and livestock food. Livestock costs include acquisition, vet bills, farriers, tack, certified hay and grains, etc. His franchise requires him to maintain the trails in their permit area. After about the second day I started to tally up all the things on the expense side of his ledger. I did not need a green visor to see I was getting a great value for the experience I was having.

In Idaho you are not going to have a sack full of choices for outfitters if you draw a premium tag. Outfitters pay for exclusive territories. Honestly, I lucked out in terms of having a quality outfitter. It is on us to know the outfitting situation for the tags we are applying to get. Consider the draw odds for a given special hunt might be so good because the outfitter for the zone may be substandard.

 

[packsaddle]

I guided for 9 years when i was in my 20s, all wilderness horseback, pack in style hunts throughout the frank church in Idaho, then the teton wilderness in Wyoming... 100% of the hundreds of clients i interacted with through the years never could have got to enjoy that style hunt on their own, due the the knowledge and equipment needed to conduct it. 95% of clients i ever guided were hard working people who saved money to go on the hunts, and enjoyed the entire aspect from the pack in, to the long days in a saddle. All the outfits I worked for, were owned by great people who give back to their communities, aren't rich by any means, and just love to be in the mountains with horses.

So people shouldn't get to experience something they have dreamed of doing, according to some of you? Are their bad outfitters? Of course, just like there are bad contractors, builders, lawyers etc... Blaming an entire industry cause you have a bad experience is pretty ignorant. How about the thousands of guide drift boats that take fisherman everyday all summer throughout the west? Should they lose their jobs too? There will always be a need for outfitters and guides to give people experiences they can't have on their own, whether you like it or not.

 

[Eric Albus]

Funny the perception of some.

For those who say “I’d never hire an outfitter” . I used to feel that way in my youth. Now I’m a bit older and wiser. Time is to valuable, and
Time will change your perception.

The thing that some don’t realize(or possibly don’t care about). Is That outfitter on public land is paying the governing agency for the privilege of hunting, whereas you pay nothing. On FS land that outfitter is clearing trails all summer/fall for any to use, free of charge to the public, and at that outfitters expense. I don’t envy the FS outfitter. As mentioned earlier, the outfitter and his clients are “public landowners” too.

 

[geetar]

I'd get rid of influencer / content creators making money off public lands without paying any permit fees long before I'd get rid of permitted outfitters.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Well, it seems MOGA and the outfitting business continues to be alive and well, providing some hunters the hunt of a lifetime and opportunities they may never have realized on their own..
But it also seems we got rid of ol' birdseye from "parts unknown"! Pot stirrer cameo appearance as OP, then, poof! ... vanished.

 

[birdseye]

Well, it seems MOGA and the outfitting business continues to be alive and well, providing some hunters the hunt of a lifetime and opportunities they may never have realized on their own..
But it also seems we got rid of ol' birdseye from "parts unknown"! Pot stirrer cameo appearance as OP, then, poof! ... vanished.

Ha! Guess I'm still living in your head....rent gratis

Didn't we agree that your BIL would be dealing with me on your behalf?

And....public land outfitters are still leeches

 

[LopeHunter]

There are plenty of places where hiring an outfitter is the most practical and cheapest way to go for most people.

If a unit’s herds are mostly on public even during the season once the shooting begins then the outfitter mostly has a leg up if there is wilderness with minimal access points or the hunter lacks hunt experience for the species or unit, the gear and cooking experience for a camp or lacks horses or lacks a strong back to pack in/pack out.

I drew a moose tag in Idaho on a unit that was close to 100% public but no outfitter had permits to operate on the refuge. I was seeking help on the hunt as a few weeks before the hunt my right femur decided to start killing the bone marrow which led to a wait and see game if the marrow would regenerate or I would lose the leg near the hip. I was healthy as applied. Tipped over a bull moose near the road relying on a cane and lots of grit.

So, outfitters can be useful even for us not expecting to need one as we apply for a tag.

Outfitters that illegally and asshatterily sabotage things to screw over non-client hunters deserve to smoke a turd in Hell.

 

[Drewwes]

We're almost into 2026....isn't it time to get the parasitic outfitting industry off our public domain? Their "fees" amount to pennies with an almost free leveraging of our wildlife.

It’s a frustrating situation. Public lands should benefit everyone, not just outfitters paying pennies while exploiting our wildlife.

 

[Stocker]

If you ban them it’ll just make an underground guide service, probably opened up to much more shady stuff. Honestly the handful of times I’ve ran into outfitters on public I haven’t had a bad experience. They weren’t hostile in any way, actually one guy told me that my OnX map was wrong and what was mapped as private was actually public. I didn’t take his advice because it was clear on my map, but he was nice.

I understand the sentiment of not commodifying our animals, but everytime humans come up with a solution there seems to be 3 more problems.

 

[BuzzH]

There's a place for public land outfitters in reasonable numbers. IMO, I would like to see the outfitting industry limit itself on both public and private land. There's little question the resource is being over exploited by outfitters.

 

[Forkyfinder]

The thing that some don’t realize(or possibly don’t care about). Is That outfitter on public land is paying the governing agency for the privilege of hunting, whereas you pay nothing.

One is a commercial activity - wouldnt you expect that?

 

[Eric Albus]

If you don’t expect it I guess it’s come as a surprise.

 

[RealMuddyboots]

I guess my $800 NR is not paying for a right to hunt public lands? Everyone pays one way or another.

Seems if someone is young and in great health, outfitters are the plague of public lands. As we get older, have expendable income, may have some health limitations, an outfitter brings another opportunity to continue hunting. DIY high altitude hunts still young man's game. It was great fun until it wasn't.

I knew one outfitter personally and the level of effort to bring a great camp to his clients is extraordinary. The cost to maintain horses and mules in off season was crazy. Trail rides helped but prob close to 6 months of feeding "hay burners".

There are slob outfitters I am sure but there are constant posts on slob hunters as well. Most outfitters I have used no doubt cared upon the land they used. Sure to protect themselves from inspection but also they lived there and it was their land too.

Everyone is a public land owner which results in the same old argument who has controlling rights to use it.

 

[Eric Albus]

There's a place for public land outfitters in reasonable numbers. IMO, I would like to see the outfitting industry limit itself on both public and private land. There's little question the resource is being over exploited by outfitters.

I don’t see outfitters over exploiting anything here in R6&7.
What I see are outfitters taking few to no clients, in spite of having high demand for their services.

 

[The_Coloradoboy]

I'd get rid of influencer / content creators making money off public lands without paying any permit fees long before I'd get rid of permitted outfitters.

This

 

[Straight Arrow]

Didn't we agree that your BIL would be dealing with me on your behalf?

To what are you referring by that statement??? 'Don't know what you are saying!

 

[Eric Albus]

Ha! Guess I'm still living in your head....rent gratis

Didn't we agree that your BIL would be dealing with me on your behalf?

And....public land outfitters are still leeches

As opposed to public land hunters who pay ZERO??
Seems as if the pot can’t see it is also black, alas, the poor kettle.