Washington Hunter
Well-known member
elkfarmer, many people are of the belief that elk should not be domesticated. Simple as that. You won't be changing anybody's mind.
Oregon Deer Game farm Question...
- Thread starter Moosie
- Start date
noharleyyet
Well-known member
...except for huge private free range hi dollar guided luxury accommodated landowner tag operations WH? Where does the equivocating end?
BuzzH
Well-known member
elkfarmer,
No, I'm not complaining or crying about it. You asked how individuals are negatively impacted by elk farms. I gave you an example, hunters have to pay for the administration of elk farms.
You can play definition games all day long...but when the State of Montana subsidizes an industry like elk farms...its welfare. If the elkfarmers in Montana were so "independent", they should have been paying the MTFWP the total cost of all administration costs. Bottom line is though, without the state welfare, elk farmers would never have gotten their businesses off the ground.
But, like I said, the State of Montana won big on this deal though. Elk farms are history in Montana, and thats all I really care about.
Carry on arguing how they dont impact wild elk, MT citizens and/or hunters all you want. There is NO debating the facts involved with MT's elk farms, and they've all been stated here.
No, I'm not complaining or crying about it. You asked how individuals are negatively impacted by elk farms. I gave you an example, hunters have to pay for the administration of elk farms.
You can play definition games all day long...but when the State of Montana subsidizes an industry like elk farms...its welfare. If the elkfarmers in Montana were so "independent", they should have been paying the MTFWP the total cost of all administration costs. Bottom line is though, without the state welfare, elk farmers would never have gotten their businesses off the ground.
But, like I said, the State of Montana won big on this deal though. Elk farms are history in Montana, and thats all I really care about.
Carry on arguing how they dont impact wild elk, MT citizens and/or hunters all you want. There is NO debating the facts involved with MT's elk farms, and they've all been stated here.
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
It will end when the private ownership of elk (or whitetail deer, etc.) is BANNED.
NEVER should have been allowed in the first place.
Do we want this country to end up like Europe (or Texas?)
|ooBuzzH
Well-known member
WH,
NHY's scenerio will end when the commercialization of wildlife...both free ranging and behind high fences...is BANNED.
Not one second before.
NHY's scenerio will end when the commercialization of wildlife...both free ranging and behind high fences...is BANNED.
Not one second before.
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
elkfarmer
New member
well the way I see it, is I am right and you are wrong. You got what you wanted and now you are crying about it. I just can't believe that a bunch of dopes can dictate what a guy can do on his own land, something that really doesn't hurt anyone.
anyways, i am still waiting for reasons to do away with elk/deer farms other than you don't agree with them. I have a feeling I will be waiting a long time.
anyways, i am still waiting for reasons to do away with elk/deer farms other than you don't agree with them. I have a feeling I will be waiting a long time.
gemstatejake
New member
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2007
- Messages
- 11
Is a Rocky Mountain Elk who lives behind a fence in New freaking York really an Elk???????? If that poor critter still feels the call of the wild at all it's prolly begging for some would be "elk hunter" with deep pockets to put it out of it's misery!
Seems to me that the days of the elk farm out west are numbered. Just the way the wind is blowing these days. I can't think of one hunter I know who has anything good to say about them. The local politicians seem to mostly take a negative view of these operations as well. Not to mention the recent antics of the Rammel idiot and the other clown who was dumping rotton carcasses on public land. Plus the elk farmer folks just dont have nearly as much pull (money) to ramrod this type of activity as say, the cattle industry who have most politicians in their back pocket and are 10 times more destructive to wildlife. My main gripe/fear with the elk ranches and what I feel should be regulated is proxemity to wild herds. There are a few here in the treasure valley that dont bother me a bit as long as the individual animals stay put. Others that spring to mind in Garden Valley and above Riggins need to go IMO.
Seems to me that the days of the elk farm out west are numbered. Just the way the wind is blowing these days. I can't think of one hunter I know who has anything good to say about them. The local politicians seem to mostly take a negative view of these operations as well. Not to mention the recent antics of the Rammel idiot and the other clown who was dumping rotton carcasses on public land. Plus the elk farmer folks just dont have nearly as much pull (money) to ramrod this type of activity as say, the cattle industry who have most politicians in their back pocket and are 10 times more destructive to wildlife. My main gripe/fear with the elk ranches and what I feel should be regulated is proxemity to wild herds. There are a few here in the treasure valley that dont bother me a bit as long as the individual animals stay put. Others that spring to mind in Garden Valley and above Riggins need to go IMO.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
By the way you talk, I'd say your from Alaska, not New York. I'm not calling you a name, but are you really that naive to think that statement is true?
Animals do escape, and some game farmers have breed red deer with their elk for the crowning effect. True?
Elk on game farms do contract disease's. True?
Old Moe, killed a Elk on a game farm that scored 524. If his grand childeren drag the horns out of the shed in 2022 and enters it in the book a fair chase, doens't that belittle everyone that enters the book with a wild free ranging elk? Doesn't it water down the records and make them worthless.
The shooting of livestock on game farms, and passing them off as a legitimate sport and calling it hunting is the biggest threat to hunting as we know it. If you can';t see that your no sportsman!
You love your elk, fine, I could see how that would be entertaining. But reality is that your hobbie threatens wild free ranging elk. (If it were in a state that holds wild populations of elk.) The genic pure wild elk living in the US today needs protection from hobbiests that see no problem with raising a few, or a thousand elk. Your rights only go so far, and when they step on the rights of the many then your rights dont' supperseed ours.. Thats how this country works, or at least suppose too.
Elkfarmer, :wank: :wank: :wank:
what elkfarmer and his buds really do.
elkfarmer
New member
gemstatejake, you are right about regulating. I agree that mabey a state needs to regulate/enforce rules when it comes to game ranches. But when people vote in the way they want it and then cry about it, I don't get it.
SS, Alaska? I wish. Reddeer comment-Some breeders have done that and the state should control (stop) that, where wild herds are. Diseases-Other than cwd which is in less than 1% of all the animals(wild and fenced) specify with examples of that statement. If you can. 524- If old moe killed a 524 bull I doubt it would be let in the record book, could it happen? sure. but I bet there is more than 1 animal in the books that was shot with a spotlight or poached some other way. Shooting of livestock? Everyone who has hunted/poached has told a lie. So we are all wrong.
SS- you are right hump :wank: :wank: :wank: :wank: next, only while we are waiting for your skills
SS, Alaska? I wish. Reddeer comment-Some breeders have done that and the state should control (stop) that, where wild herds are. Diseases-Other than cwd which is in less than 1% of all the animals(wild and fenced) specify with examples of that statement. If you can. 524- If old moe killed a 524 bull I doubt it would be let in the record book, could it happen? sure. but I bet there is more than 1 animal in the books that was shot with a spotlight or poached some other way. Shooting of livestock? Everyone who has hunted/poached has told a lie. So we are all wrong.
SS- you are right
hump :wank: :wank: :wank: :wank: next, only while we are waiting for your skillsCurly
Member
elkfarmer
New member
Mabey, I have 1 bull that is friendly but nervous around strangers. All the rest won't have anything to do with people. And one cow is just plain old mean.
elk_hunter
Active member
elkfarmer; I don't agree with hunting in high fence areas - I don't see any point. What bothers me most is the captivity factor - if you hunt animals within these farms, it's not fair chase. Frankly, I don't know enough about game farms to have an opinion about how they affect me as a hunter.
If you put up a regular fence to keep cows (moo), horses, pigs, etc. on your property, that's totally fine. If elk or deer jump the fence and onto your land and you're lucky enough to whack one during season, then that lucky bastard scores.
I don't believe doing this would be interpreted as 'fenced hunting'. However, if you put up an 8' or whatever style game fence around your place and stock it with animals for the purpose of hunting, I'm against it. Perhaps there's merit to raising animals for their horns, but I say if people need them, go out and hike the hills looking for sheds.
Moosie
Grand poopa
S.S. is still using the argument about one of his Bulls being bumped from the book becasue of a Game farm elk. Don't knock the Farms, knock the book makers for allowing it. You probably think the 5k fine for poaching was pleanty too
shoots-straight
Well-known member
I don't have any in the book, but say you get lucky with that tag in Utah or Wyoming, kill a boone head, that sits around 290 with 15 or so above you that came off game farms killed by old fat arse billy bob or whom ever. Do you think that it's alright? Maybe you don't care about honoring a worthy trophy taken by fair chase. Well are ya?
Maybe a trophy animal isn't that important to you Moosie, but then again why are you applying for those limitted entry area's? If game farms are fine go get a wall hanger on one. Leave the good, free rangeing area's to those of us that respect the species. I believe a elk should be free, and not domesticated. Noharley save the white horse speech. :wank:
:
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Noharley save the white horse speech. (quote shoots-alone )
I'm afraid you're riding the highest one in this corral...& you can't seem to find a way to dismount. (insert self-flagellation icon here)
)I'm afraid you're riding the highest one in this corral...& you can't seem to find a way to dismount. (insert self-flagellation icon here)
Moosie
Grand poopa
S.S. I like hunting, fellowshipping and traveling. I apply to further all. Yes, I would like to Wack a big-un, but I think Even if I got a 410 bull I wouldn't put it in the book. You're dwelling on the book and worried about someone bumping it. You're babbling again. If I wanted a big elk go to the farm ? I like hunting and shoot small ones and big ones. If I wanted a big one I would go to Ebay Thats OK s.s., You have a lot to learn.
Remind me again why you hunt ? Here's what I see.
1. To be alone.
2. To brag and put things in books.
Hey, to each their own. You think it's wrong that some like to hunt inside the fence, and think it's wrong I like hunting with people. We're all different. Some of you more so then the rest of us
Thats OK s.s., You have a lot to learn.Remind me again why you hunt ? Here's what I see.
1. To be alone.
2. To brag and put things in books.
Hey, to each their own. You think it's wrong that some like to hunt inside the fence, and think it's wrong I like hunting with people. We're all different. Some of you more so then the rest of us
BuzzH
Well-known member
elkfarmer=dumb as elkcheese.
elkfarmer
New member
SS- D Lets go to BuzzH house, I here he has skills too......
I don't believe I have ever said High fence animales belong in the books. I don't believe they do. I will bet there are more poached animals in the book than there are high fence.
Again, how does old joe blow shooting a 600" bull in a fence affect YOU?
hump :wank: :wank: wank: :wank: elkfarmer you are right, Buzz is better
D Lets go to BuzzH house, I here he has skills too......I don't believe I have ever said High fence animales belong in the books. I don't believe they do. I will bet there are more poached animals in the book than there are high fence.
Again, how does old joe blow shooting a 600" bull in a fence affect YOU?
hump :wank: :wank: wank: :wank: elkfarmer you are right, Buzz is better
shoots-straight
Well-known member
I hate hearing how they killed it in the Selway or the Bob Marshall... If they weren't ashamed of what they've done they why the lies..
Why Moosie Hunts:
1) Go with the boys and be the big man.
2) So he has somewhere to go, to get away from the wife.
3) Only place he can swill a brewskie with out getting in trouble.
4) So he and Tom can relive their favorite scene from Broke Back Mountain.:hump:
Now, we'll see if in fact you kill a 410 and don't enter it into the book.
