Oregon Deer Game farm Question...

[Moosie]

OK, Senario :

Someone draws a Deer tag. Another person has a ranch or access to a ranch (Size doesn't matter), and the ranch has a Buck that is a Fetchin TOAD !!!. Ranch isn't fenced but the deer has been coming there for years and finds solitude there durring ther hunting season. Thats not the only buck, there are several that are toads.

Lands big enough to be given out land owner permits. No fences, open range, but a guy could sleep in a cabin and shoot the deer from the front porch.

For argueing sakes, I have several questions :

1. If a deer comes to field every day, is it a "canned hunt" ? We just had a topic on a leopard that comes to bait every day that was Labbled a canned hunt.

2. If a guy draws a tag after 5 years of putting in and someone else buys a land owner tag, is one V's the other "cheating" in your eyes ?

3. If a guy gets permission to hunt but has to hike in from the main road and camp and hike the deer back out (Let's say 5 miles), or the guy can come to the ranch and sleep in great quarters and wack the same deer from a hot tub, Is one way wrong ?

Whats yer thoughts.....

 

[Washington Hunter]

I'd have no problem with a guy shooting that big buck from the front porch of the cabin. It's a wild deer and it chooses to be there. It may not make the best story, for the hunter, and most guys wouldn't get as much satisfaction from a hunt like that as if they had to really work for it, but I'm sure many, many trophy animals have been killed in scenarios just like that.

So why'd you put "game farm" in the title? From your description it's not a game farm. Are you looking at buying a landowner tag in Oregon?

 

[shoots-straight]

1. If a deer comes to field every day, is it a "canned hunt" ? We just had a topic on a leopard that comes to bait every day that was Labbled a canned hunt.

For sake of argueing lets clarify why the leopard hunt was considered canned.
1) Many shooting operations in SA capture and relocate leopards for this purpose.
2) It was guaranteed or money was to be refunded.

It wasn't branded canned because of high probability of success.

If the deer is wild (meaning free to roam, and come and go as he pleases.)
I don't think that it would be anything but an easy hunt.. Lots of sheep hunting in and around here is nothing more than a chip shot once the tag has been secure.

Would there be a chance that Bud Light girls would be using the hot tub? That would be considered cheeting.

 

[Bambistew]

Shoot straight... What if you went to say Tanzania on a leopard hunt, and didn't kill one, you think they'd charge you for it? Sure they'd charge you for the 'hunt' but not for an animal you didn't kill. The money 'back' is nothing different than ANY hunt in ANY country in Africa. Hell, there are places in the lower 48 that practice this with free range animals. I believe its illegal in MT however, but in MT you have to pay a 'trophy fee' on mountain lion, all be it small, but still a 'trophy fee' that you don't pay if you don't kill. Many outfitters are charging prices for x" of horn in many places besides Texas too.

Moosie as far as your hunt above... Shoot him from the front porch, finish your coffee, and take the rest of the time in camp to relax.

Some hunts are hard some are easy... just the way it is. There are some hunters that don't want any 'easy' hunts. Remember that sheep thread last year where the dude shot the ram off the road in is flip flops. Would it be any different than drawing a sheep tag in one of the premo units in MT that you can just about shoot a booner from the road?

I think we're all in agreement that the harder a trophy is to earn the more one can boast about it and belittle other hunters for their lack of 'prowess'. In the end, hunts are what we make them out to be. How many times have you herd of a giant animal being killed in an unlikely area next to a road?

Whats harder: Shooting a 180" buck on heavily hunted public land 10 miles from the road, or drawing a premo tag in a unit that see's very little pressure and shooting a 210+"re from the road? Which one is the hunter going to brag more about?

 

[Tom]

Bambistew is right, at least in that post.

As far as I know, only Texas has a legal definition of a canned hunt. They are illegal here. They came up with the law when someone released a cat and it ran under a truck and they had to shoot it there. It was in the news a lot, so the TX legislature addressed it. Basically, a canned hunt is releasing a dangerous game animal to be shot and there is a specific list of animals that count. Those canned hunts are illegal.

 

[shoots-straight]

Whats harder: Shooting a 180" buck on heavily hunted public land 10 miles from the road, or drawing a premo tag in a unit that see's very little pressure and shooting a 210+"re from the road? Which one is the hunter going to brag more about?

I believe that alot of guys from this forum wouldn't care less weather the hunt was hard or easy, if they shot 210 buck they'd brag and pic's would be posted, and alot of us would love looking.

As far as the issue on the leopard hunt, I still believe it was more than likely a canned hunt for a raised or trapped animal. You and I both really don't know for sure if it was legite or not. So the issue is mute.

Tom, any animal killed in a fenced game proof fence is canned to me!

 

[The Hedgehog]

I'd take an easy one any day and I'd proudly brag how damn easy it was if it was easy. Shooting captive animals is for fags though.

Shoots-straight, you tellin me you'd rather walk 10 miles to get that 210 muley? I mean i'd walk 20 for a deer like that.. but if it was standing in my front yard I'd shoot the bastard and laugh about how it happened.

I'm crossing my fingers for a huge montana moose standing along the road this fall. Last thing I want to do is pack one 10 miles, but I will if I have to.

 

[Moosie]

Funny thing about guys like S.S. is they think everyone lies about their hunt. Some of us jsut tell it like it is. How hard is that to understand ?

As far as Buying a Land owner tag, I'm out of hunting any more animals. Although Warren drew a good tag and the possibility could be there, I'm guessing my time is Zip....

 

[shoots-straight]

Shoots-straight, you tellin me you'd rather walk 10 miles to get that 210 muley? I mean i'd walk 20 for a deer like that.. but if it was standing in my front yard I'd shoot the bastard and laugh about how it happened.

Hell no! The closer to the road the more points awarded.

Funny thing about guys like S.S. is they think everyone lies about their hunt. Some of us jsut tell it like it is. How hard is that to understand ?

Uh, lets see this is the internet, you can be anything you want to be. Do you believe everything you read? I believe some of the posters on this site , and some are BS.

I'm crossing my fingers for a huge montana moose standing along the road this fall. Last thing I want to do is pack one 10 miles, but I will if I have to.

10 miles, hell 500' would be a pull.

 

[Tom]

If there was a high fence around your state, would all hunts in your state be a canned hunt? That follows from what SS thinks, right? If there was a high fence around the USA, every hunt would be a canned hunt, right? If there was a high fence around the northern hemisphere, all hunts would be a canned hunt, right? canned hunt=high fence hunt, that's simple. Its the same hunt, either way, for most of the animals in the state, the way I think about it. High fences stop many animals from getting killed standing in a road, they are good for that. They are a great management tool, no doubt about it. I think they are missunderstood management tool, for many people.

 

[shoots-straight]

Tom, you'll never give it up. Drop it I'm sure there's some sort of captive chit for you to go slaughter. Your a guy who needs game farms so maybe it's good in a way. Keeps you off ground that you could hurt someone on. You need inclosures, another good reason is you can't get lost.. I'm starting see the light Tom.

 

[Tom]

Why don't you give it up? They've been around a long time and they will be around a lot longer than you or me. Don't tell me what you think I need, its ignorant.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Tom's point is valid. To take it a step further, there are natural obstacles. Look at Anacosta (sp?) Island - it's surrounded by ocean, therefore the deer can't get away. I haven't heard anyone calling it a canned hunt, though.

I certainly do not agree with turning an animal loose in a pen, or in having a hundred animals in a hundred acre pen. But a high fence around thousands of acres with animals born wild with sufficent cover and room is not in the same league. There are a lot of pronghorns on private ranches in the West, and since pronghorns often will not jump a fence, that would make them all "canned hunts."

At the same time, I have hunted hard for elk for days, covering a several thousand feet in elevation changes and many miles on foot, only to see a 6x6 a quarter mile off the road on public land...and yes, I stalked it and shot it. It tasted fine, too.

 

[shoots-straight]

Your looking for a definition of a game farm, there probably isn't one. But your looking at them solely as what is sporting to justify them. They suck on more grounds than just the lack of sporting ethics.The also suck to the environment. Game farms lock out wildlife from migrating to their natural winter and summer ranges, they take lands out of public wildlife use and therefore we all lose. Just because the lands are private doesn't mean public wildlife don't live there. Yes fences do hinder Pronghorns in there movements but just because it's wove wire doesn't mean they still are captive. They still can escape and are still considered fair chase, wove wire are bad for prong horns and that's a hole nother topic. I'm for the public's wildlife and anybody that supports game farms is on the other side of the fence.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

You can't define something, but you are against it? How do you outlaw something that you can't define?

Private ownership of real property, period, can accomplish all the things you list. Are you against private property ownership?

 

[BuzzH]

I can define it real easy.

Any fenced area that makes it all but impossible to get over, under, or around it is a fenced game farm...and I dont care how many acres it is.

The pronghorns and woven wire or regular 5 strand barbed wire is not a good comparison. Pronghorns have NO problem jumping woven wire fences...NO problem. They also get through barbed wire fences real easy.

Put up a ten foot woven wire fence...GAME FARM.

I also agree that one of the problems associated with game farmsbehind high wire fences in states like Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, etc. is how they disrupt natural migration of wildlife to winter range, into summer range, etc.

Thats why I dont really give a crap how some Texan or South African game farmer squawks about how "good" it is to high fence your ranch. May work great there, but they arent dealing with animals that are forced by weather to migrate many miles to escape winter snow and migrate back up to escape higher temperatures and reach better habitat in the summer.

Keep the game farms in Texas, but dont try to tell me how they could also work in Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, etc. They dont...never have and never will.

 

[shoots-straight]

You can't define something, but you are against it? How do you outlaw something that you can't define?

If you'd ever checked what we outlawed it was the hunting of game animals on high fenced operations, the game farms weren't what was made illegal.

Private ownership of real property, period, can accomplish all the things you list. Are you against private property ownership?

Again I think I anwsered this, game farms weren't outlawed, just the hunting on them. No I'm not against private property ownership, just the privatization of public resources. How about you? Do you feel that a landowner has absolute say, regardless of what may happen, on his property. Again would you say that your neighbor opening a nuclear waste dump would be within his rights?

 

[Calif. Hunter]

SS - Then you are not against high fences or game farms - only hunting game animals within them since that what you made illegal?

I understand what you are saying, Buzz, and I actually agree with you. At least you can articulate what you are opposed to, and in what circumstances.

Blanket statements that the maker cannot explain or back up just bug me. To equate something in a country you have never been to with your local situation, and to paint all operations no matter where they are located as being the same, regardless of location or circumstances in ludicrous. It is like me trying to tell you what the surface of the moon feels like to walk on based upon my experience on earth, or saying that bleach is going to taste like water because they are both a clear liquid...

 

[Moosie]

Let's translate

Your looking for a definition of a game farm, there probably isn't one.

translate : I just don't know what one is myself.

They suck on more grounds than just the lack of sporting ethics.The also suck to the environment.

translate : I'm bitter and things suck. Sucks a cool word to sound smart when you argue someone.. I might even use it twice to show that it really sucks. That won't suck....

Yes fences do hinder Pronghorns in there movements but just because it's wove wire doesn't mean they still are captive. They still can escape and are still considered fair chase, wove wire are bad for prong horns and that's a hole nother topic.

translate : I heard that in a bar once by bubba Joe and sounded like a smart thing to say. HEll, i don't even know what wove wire is or why it's a HOLE nuther topic.

I'm for the public's wildlife and anybody that supports game farms is on the other side of the fence.

translate : I'll throw out a Puplic safety mesage to sound like I'm really concerned. Bpttom line is guys at the bar would make fun of me if I shot a critter in a fenced opperation and even though I don't know what one is or really why it's bad, BUBBA the barstood buddy says it's only for rich people.

 

[shoots-straight]

Moosie, I think you'd better stock up on tampons your period about 5 days out.

The definition request was concerning area's that were encapsulated like Anticosti Island.

It sounds to me like you've got that bar lingo down Moose. You've been a regular I suspect.

Again Game Farms weren't made illegal, just hunting on them. Your some thick headed MoFuggers.

SS - Then you are not against high fences or game farms - only hunting game animals within them since that what you made illegal?

Didn't I say

Game farms lock out wildlife from migrating to their natural winter and summer ranges, they take lands out of public wildlife use and therefore we all lose.

So wouldn't I be against ranchers putting up high fence.. Although that's not the fight. I don't like them. Their bad for wildlife, etc, etc.... But that is a fight that would have to be taken at a different level. It would be fought on envirmental and wildlife grounds.
It would be tough. Again property rights issue.

Again would you say that your neighbor opening a nuclear waste dump would be within his rights?

I answered your questions answer mine.

Blanket statements that the maker cannot explain or back up just bug me. To equate something in a country you have never been to with your local situation, and to paint all operations no matter where they are located as being the same, regardless of location or circumstances in ludicrous.

Translation: I hunt game farms and there tough, most my trophies grew up there.