NRA On The Hot Seat - Exposed or Attacked?

[Pmacc60]

I’ve stated repeatedly what my ideas are going forward, and you’ve repeatedly followed me here and elsewhere to tell me I’m wrong. I’m not sure why you seem to have a problem with me in particular, but my point is not to “win” or be right. My point is to get people thinking about how better to participate in the dialogue, because it’s going to happen with or without us. I agree, the NRA is broken. That’s why I’m discussing ways we can engage without them. You clearly feel attempting to engage is futile. Noted. I disagree. Let’s move on.

I feel like you’ve spent a lot of time focusing on who’s from where, and making assumptions and judgements about individuals based on nearly zero actual information. If this is how you approach critical conversations, I can see why you believe constructive discussion with “others” is impossible.

I don’t have a problem with you , I don’t have a problem where anyone lives. You say assumptions, I feel I’m being analytical on trying to understand your opinion!

Moving on I will tell you that the world has change as well as the political climate. The past 4 years have proven that bad behavior is tolerated or even excused ! Moderates ( I consider myself as that ) have little or no voice , the press and social media have muted us . It’s not personal it’s just this new attitude of the public.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Please do not think this as condescending , I have no-desire to insult you. The problem is you live in North Dakota and you see this issue from that perspective. I live in Maryland , January 4 th Md introduced a new bill to have all gun buyers to apply for a LQL to by a long gun. Maryland has in place now the HQL ( hand gun Qualification Lic ) to buy a handgun in Md you need to take a on line course pay $200 and get your fingerprints done.This and a seven day waiting period for background check. Md residents can only buy 1 handgun a month , its extremely difficult to get a carry permit , darn near impossible! Now the legislature wants this same law for long guns. Now understand we have some of the strictest gun laws in the country but the city of Baltimore has 300 or more murders a year.

I live in liberal hell , you cannot have healthy constructive conversation with many people on the east and west coast, many people here stock answer is we need gun control ! When I reply we have some of the strictest gun laws in the country they look at you dumbfounded! I’m not exaggerating , they listen to the news and hear guns are the reason for all the killings but never question it. I was raised a Kennedy liberal and I’m liberal at heart donating money and my time to help the disadvantaged.

Joe Biden ( I know him and his circle personally ) is going to try to pass strong oppressive gun laws . I have heard him say it in my presence. I live 35 minutes from him and work next to his home constantly. The NRA was a Road block to these politicians who are trying to take our rights. They have let us all down and left the door open for this administration to start doing on a federal level what east coast states have been doing for a while. Did you know that if you have 5 hollow point bullets you can do a year for each bullet even if you have a carry permit from another state . The news blasted a former Philadelphia Eagle for driving in New Jersey with a handgun in the trunk and hollow point bullets . The media was calling them cop killing bullets that penetrate bullet proof vest.
A caller on a local Philly sport talk show called in to clarify that that’s not the intention for hollow points and was hung up on and declared an idiot. This is the world I live in and you can not reason with someone who doesn’t care what you have to say!

You are a good person and I see your point, your open minded and have good intentions, I hope I am as well but this new political environment is very closed minded and could care less about you or your right ! I am new to this forum and many of you are in the west. I know I’m coming off wrong from the negative comments I receive but I see this from a different perspective and it’s not a sunny one I’m sorry to say ! My intentions are good it just going to take some time for me to fit in.

Not my experience, tenor of conversations is a product of all parties.

I think there is an overwhelming body of evidence to support that gun laws prevent gun crime. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous. Now, would you be able to successfully implement the kind of gun laws that are effective, in the US, given both the 2A and with how much we value states rights... absolutely not.

Along those lines, I’m not sure I have issue with states having different rules and restrictions. Maryland isn’t Wyoming... anyone whose watched the Wire is like, um yeah belt fed machine gun in Wyoming v. Baltimore. I’m 100% fine with Burt Gummer running around with one, pretty terrified of the idea of Frank Costello having one.

My preference would be for a national org that understood America, sure push hard at the national level, but then meet the states where they are at on gun laws.

If your driving around the US follow 926A, unload your gun, put it in a case in the trunk. It’s not rocket science.

 

[Pmacc60]

Your idea of a Nation Organization that can understand America is not a bad idea and a National law for interstate transportation would be great. I don’t mind gun laws state by state as long as they are Constitutional . Maryland has laws brought on from Baltimore and Washington DC . Most of the population is The Western Shore and Baltimore area dictate the gun laws. Much of western Maryland and the eastern shore are more like Wyoming (not the landscape but the people)than you know . Large farms yes instead of ranches and mountains not as grand as the rockies . The wire is a great show and it’s a really good depiction of life in the city. My son sends me picture daily when he works there . I live in North Eastern Md at the head waters of the Chesapeake Bay. I don’t lock my doors on my home or truck. It’s a nice place to live and a good place to make a living. Horrible gun laws, we don’t need harsher laws than Wyoming. Legal gun ownership is not the problem , gang bangers and drugs trade in urban areas are a far cry from where and what live with. You watched the wire and one thing that the show plays on (this is true ) many people in the city never go more than a few blocks from their neighborhood. Most violence in Baltimore is done with handguns , most who do the violence can’t legally own a firearm. We have to change the narrative and get the information out there where and why the violence is coming from!

 

[grizzly63]

So, as I have asked elsewhere, can the NRA members remove the problem leadership and get things moving in the right direction?

 

[AlaskaHunter]

Revenue from member dues declined by 34 percent decline in 2019.
That’s the lowest member revenue figure the NRA has posted since 2012....
https://www.thetrace.org/2020/08/nra-financial-audit-membership-dues-revenue/

 

[Western Traveler1]

Revenue from member dues declined by 34 percent decline in 2019.
That’s the lowest member revenue figure the NRA has posted since 2012....
https://www.thetrace.org/2020/08/nra-financial-audit-membership-dues-revenue/

I guess more than a few of us baled.
It sure didn’t stop the fliers...

 

[Pmacc60]

So, as I have asked elsewhere, can the NRA members remove the problem leadership and get things moving in the right direction?

Grizzly I think the damage is done for the NRA, I think this has been coming for a long time . A complete purge of the administration would have to happen and that looks like it’s not happening. Gun owners need to find a group that represents us on the hill ! The NRA has disgraced itself and left the door open to ridicule ! It will be pretty much ineffective for the near future a least and the confidence by the membership is at a all time low. I won’t renew unless they show a complete overhaul.

 

[BWALKER77]

Call it what you want. Does not change the perceived problem or need to discuss the underlying cause and how best to address whatever that is.

Has government ever fixed a major problem? War on drugs, war on poverty, etc, etc.
What makes you think that more laws on top of the hundreds already on the books will have any effect?

 

[Pmacc60]

Has government ever fixed a major problem? War on drugs, war on poverty, etc, etc.
What makes you think that more laws on top of the hundreds already on the books will have any effect?

That is a most accurate point and it took less than three sentences l

 

[Hunting Wife]

Has government ever fixed a major problem? War on drugs, war on poverty, etc, etc.
What makes you think that more laws on top of the hundreds already on the books will have any effect?

One more time....read it again and point to where I said anything about supporting more gun laws. For the record...I do not.

Definition of DISCUSSION

consideration of a question in open and usually informal debate; a formal treatment of a topic in speech or writing… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[Shangobango]

As some probably remember I am a pretty passionate supporter of 2A. I am researching Gun Owners of America to see if they are a better option given the current political climate. The incoming administration has not been at all bashful in promoting their desire to do things concerning guns that I don't agree with. Some of it may have been political rhetoric in order to win votes but who knows.

 

[RaiderRich]

As some probably remember I am a pretty passionate supporter of 2A. I am researching Gun Owners of America to see if they are a better option given the current political climate. The incoming administration has not been at all bashful in promoting their desire to do things concerning guns that I don't agree with. Some of it may have been political rhetoric in order to win votes but who knows.

I am looking at GOA myself. Looks like they are pretty legit. I posted a list of alternatives to the NRA earlier in this thread. 2nd Amendment Foundation is another and I believe they have been around for quite some time. Used to be gun control advocates would just refer to the "gun lobby" to encompass all the organizations but then they started concentrating on the NRA a few years back. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

 

[Pmacc60]

As some probably remember I am a pretty passionate supporter of 2A. I am researching Gun Owners of America to see if they are a better option given the current political climate. The incoming administration has not been at all bashful in promoting their desire to do things concerning guns that I don't agree with. Some of it may have been political rhetoric in order to win votes but who knows.

If you get a chance google Biden’s gun plan, just don’t read it before you go to bed because you will lose sleep.

 

[El Jason]

Has government ever fixed a major problem? War on drugs, war on poverty, etc, etc.
What makes you think that more laws on top of the hundreds already on the books will have any effect?

This question is based upon the false premise these problems are "fixable" in the first place. There will never be a "fix", but problems can be mitigated to various degrees.

I would point to drunk driving and seat belt laws as two examples of government intervention that have greatly mitigated these two issues.

 

[Shangobango]

If you get a chance google Biden’s gun plan, just don’t read it before you go to bed because you will lose sleep.

I have been aware of it for some time. I haven't lost any sleep over it though.

I don't think we have reached the point where anyone that wants to maintain political position beyond the district, or in a few cases, State wide scale is foolish enough to try to push through gun regs that are that stringent. It would be a one way ticket to losing control of the Congress IMO.

Like I tell some of my family and friends that are way more riled up about the recent elections than I am, we are still a ways away from anyone coming for our guns. Not because there aren't plenty that want to, just because they can't. Yet.

 

[Pmacc60]

This question is based upon the false premise these problems are "fixable" in the first place. There will never be a "fix", but problems can be mitigated to various degrees.

I would point to drunk driving and seat belt laws as two examples of government intervention that have greatly mitigated these two issues.

Very true , however the way they mitigate is to pass laws and convict or fine in the seat belt case the people who break the law .

This question is based upon the false premise these problems are "fixable" in the first place. There will never be a "fix", but problems can be mitigated to various degrees.

I would point to drunk driving and seat belt laws as two examples of government intervention that have greatly mitigated these two issues.

Yes seat belt laws and drunk driving laws work . If you are caught not wearing your seat belt it’s a fine if you drive under the influence you will be arrested. However drink if you want it’s legal and accessible and it raises revenue . Drinking in excess is one of the biggest causes more murders, highway fatalities , domestic abuse and death in this country. They tried to make it illegal but it only made criminals money !

we have cars and motorcycles that can go in excess of a 150 mph and the leading cause of death in auto accidents is speed !

The most scrutinized thing a person can do is buy a gun. Back ground checks paper work etc. in 2017 there were 39,773 gun deaths in this country. 19,518 murders which 14, 542 were committed with a firearm. 23,854 were suicides 47,173 committed suicide that year.486 were accidental and 553 were by law enforcement . 60% of gun violence is self inflicted. Homicides by gun in the top 5 cities that year were Chicago 650. , Baltimore 318, Philadelphia 317, NYC 290 and LA 286! States and cities with the toughest gun laws ! Reasons the cities claimed the high rate were to gang violence and drugs.

The next hundred days we are going to see a concerted effort by the new administration to impose a black gun ban , not a war on drugs or gang violence, not a war on suicide ! It easier to blame a gun ! Getting rid of AR style rifles will not help anything but the press and administration will use their propaganda to push legislation through and the only victims will be lawful Americans. That maybe wear their seatbelts and don’t drink to excess!
When the law abiding are the only people suffer there is something very wrong.

 

[El Jason]

Very true , however the way they mitigate is to pass laws and convict or fine in the seat belt case the people who break the law .

They also both involved massive public outreach campaigns to influence societal acceptance.

Edit: For clarification, I'm wasn't advocating for new gun laws. I was pointing out the false premise in the question.

Also, maybe it's time we stop framing things as the "war on...."? If we're going to focus on use of words, this might be a good place to start. It creates a mindset that 1) it's adversarial and 2) it's winnable, neither of which are true.

 

[Ben Lamb]

The next hundred days we are going to see a concerted effort by the new administration to impose a black gun ban , not a war on drugs or gang violence, not a war on suicide ! It easier to blame a gun ! Getting rid of AR style rifles will not help anything but the press and administration will use their propaganda to push legislation through and the only victims will be lawful Americans. That maybe wear their seatbelts and don’t drink to excess!
When the law abiding are the only people suffer there is something very wrong.

Hyperbole aside, I agree with this.

Which is why having the NRA being a sycophant to power rather than be an advocate for the second amendment & the sporting heritage is such a huge loss. GOA is far, far right & not well liked outside of the hardcore 2a crowd. Their rhetoric falls in with some of the militias we see.

But this has been my issue with many of the advocates on both sides of this issue: Everybody agrees that there is an issue with gun violence in America. That's not a controversial statement unless you want to argue semantics. Rural America has an issue, as does urban America. Many times, that violence comes from the same place: poverty & lack of healthcare.

We've created a reality that works for a few, while leaving millions behind with little chance of advancement. We underfund veterans healthcare, and we stigmatize mental health care. The leading cause for gun deaths in America is suicide. A National Health System that includes mental health care would do wonders to reduce that statistic & save untold lives. The gun is simply the tool for carrying out the disease.

We laughed when President Obama said it was easier to buy a gun than a computer in certain Chicago neighborhoods, but it's the truth. Until we have a way to stop the cycle of impoverishment that has captivated entire communities, black & white, urban & rural, then we won't reduce that segment of Gun Violence. But do you know what would? Scholarships to Trade Schools & Junior Colleges. Free college, with safeguards related to grades & specific courseloads, lifts people out of poverty by providing training for good jobs while not overproducing liberal arts majors with an emphasis on postmodern dance( Still important, but that appreciation of art can be well served as a minor while you get your welding associates degree).

It's another grand example of one side correctly identifying the issue (conservatives who focus on the root of an issue) while another has good policy solutions (NHS, free college) but because we'd rather yell at each other, we'd not get to the point of recognizing each other's wisdom.

 

[mtmuley]

Off topic, but "free" college? How? mtmuley

 

[Shangobango]

GOA is far, far right & not well liked outside of the hardcore 2a crowd. Their rhetoric falls in with some of the militias we see.

This is what the bit of research I did today says to me.

The search continues.