NRA On The Hot Seat - Exposed or Attacked?

[BrentD]

I wasn’t referring so much to you but others who posted on me. Yes I get you can carry in some national parks but Romberg he raised the taxes on ammunition .a gun isn’t worth much if you can’t afford the ammo. I bought 100 rounds of REM 204 at the local gun shop for $12.98 per box of twenty after Obama raise the tax $24.98

I am unware of any new taxes Obama applied to ammo. Can you explain this with some references?

The NRA has never ever been interested in solving or saving gun rights issues. They are only interested in making money. If they ever solved gun rights issues, they would be out of business (not that this is why the NRA was formed in the first place, mind you).

In the end, the NRA's only real goal is to move dollars from your pockets to their pockets. Sadly, I'm a member, and I'm not sure why any more.

 

[Irrelevant]

I am unware of any new taxes Obama applied to ammo. Can you explain this with some references?

The NRA has never ever been interested in solving or saving gun rights issues. They are only interested in making money. If they ever solved gun rights issues, they would be out of business (not that this is why the NRA was formed in the first place, mind you).

In the end, the NRA's only real goal is to move dollars from your pockets to their pockets. Sadly, I'm a member, and I'm not sure why any more.

I still don't see why people get all worked up about the existence or lack their of, of the NRA.
If someone asked you about, say protections for hunting, what would be the best thing you could ask for to legally protect that right?
Would you answer a bunch of lobbyists, or a constitutional amendment, something else? Because in my mind, we already have the greatest form of protection allowable by our government,

 

[Big Fin]

I wasn’t referring so much to you but others who posted on me. Yes I get you can carry in some national parks but Romberg he raised the taxes on ammunition .a gun isn’t worth much if you can’t afford the ammo. I bought 100 rounds of REM 204 at the local gun shop for $12.98 per box of twenty after Obama raise the tax $24.98

You have a link to that?

I'm a CPA. I read every tax bill that comes out, including excise taxes for our clients in the outdoor space subject to P-R/D-J taxes. We subscribe to some large tax services that give us notices on anything that has a tax consequence. I just logged in and did a search of increases to P-R taxes under the Obama Administration. Nothing came up. I researched any changes to the forms or tax rates. Nothing came up.

Unless I was sleeping at the switch, the rate remains 11% on almost all items in hunting and 10% on all fishing items.

One thing you will find on this forum. If you want to be fast and loose with facts, odds are you will be asked for evidence to support claims such as you made.

 

[westbranch]

Fed excise tax when I get home I will see if I have the boxes to show the difference

Pretty sure the only excise tax on ammo has been unchanged since 1919. If you see the tax listed separately, it would most likely be due to the retailer listing it separately. This article may help explain that:

Do You Need to Worry About Excise Tax?

Knowing the basics of FAET is worth it for anyone in the industry as you may be incurring liabilities without knowing it.

www.nssf.org

 

[Wildabeest]

Fed excise tax when I get home I will see if I have the boxes to show the difference

I’m sure that price increase had NOTHING to do with hoarding. And that the hoarding had NOTHING to do with the NRAs fear mongering. It was all Obama’s fault.

a gun isn’t worth much if you can’t afford the ammo

See above. A gun isn’t worth much if you can’t FIND the ammo either. I guess we’ll blame Biden for the current hoarding as well.

 

[AlaskaHunter]

You have a link to that?

I'm a CPA. I read every tax bill that comes out, including excise taxes for our clients in the outdoor space subject to P-R/D-J taxes. We subscribe to some large tax services that give us notices on anything that has a tax consequence. I just logged in and did a search of increases to P-R taxes under the Obama Administration. Nothing came up. I researched any changes to the forms or tax rates. Nothing came up.

Unless I was sleeping at the switch, the rate remains 11% on almost all items in hunting and 10% on all fishing items.

One thing you will find on this forum. If you want to be fast and loose with facts, odds are you will be asked for evidence to support claims such as you made.

It is interesting to see how politics works sometime.
On the surface, it seems weird that Obama would sign a bill that allowed guns in National Parks.

Long story short, the 2009 Senate majority leader, Harry Reid accepted that amendment because
the bill was a credit card restrictions bill that was very important to most senators and passed 90-5.

 

[JustinsDad]

If you're talking about the Protect the Harvest group, I'd move right on past that group of Bundy sympathizers.

That’s the one. I don’t know much about Protect the Harvest but there has to be something better than what the NRA has turned into.

 

[Jwill]

That’s the one. I don’t know much about Protect the Harvest but there has to be something better than what the NRA has turned into.

We've got a state based group that's pretty good on 2A.

 

[Pmacc60]

You have a link to that?

I'm a CPA. I read every tax bill that comes out, including excise taxes for our clients in the outdoor space subject to P-R/D-J taxes. We subscribe to some large tax services that give us notices on anything that has a tax consequence. I just logged in and did a search of increases to P-R taxes under the Obama Administration. Nothing came up. I researched any changes to the forms or tax rates. Nothing came up.

Unless I was sleeping at the switch, the rate remains 11% on almost all items in hunting and 10% on all fishing items.

One thing you will find on this forum. If you want to be fast and loose with facts, odds are you will be asked for evidence to support claims such as you made.

I was wrong about it being excise tax that pushed the price of ammo up in 2008. I talk to my gun shop owner and he pointed out my mistake. Obama in a rally said he was going to raise the tax on ammo 500% but that cause a run on ammo and prices to go up. When I ask him why the big increase he said because of the tax. Delaware has no sales tax so I got it wrong . My apology for the misinformation .

 

[Pmacc60]

I’m sure that price increase had NOTHING to do with hoarding. And that the hoarding had NOTHING to do with the NRAs fear mongering. It was all Obama’s fault.

See above. A gun isn’t worth much if you can’t FIND the ammo either. I guess we’ll blame Biden for the current hoarding as well.

This shortage was due to hoarding because of COVID and rioting , I was wrong on the excise tax , my apology .

 

[Pmacc60]

Pretty sure the only excise tax on ammo has been unchanged since 1919. If you see the tax listed separately, it would most likely be due to the retailer listing it separately. This article may help explain that:

Do You Need to Worry About Excise Tax?

Knowing the basics of FAET is worth it for anyone in the industry as you may be incurring liabilities without knowing it.

www.nssf.org

You are correct I was wrong

 

[mtmuley]

[QUOTE="Wildabeast, post: 3135237, member: I guess we’ll blame Biden for the current hoarding as well.
[/QUOTE]
Not directly to blame maybe, but certainly a factor. And I'm not so sure there is a lot of "hoarding" going on either. Guys that shoot are buying what they need to do so. Some casual shooters were caught on their heels. Oh well. I'm a little nervous about the next four years and how my ability to have access to what I need will be affected. So, I buy anything I can find that I need, but will use it and not hoard it. mtmuley

 

[grizzly63]

The “don’t give an inch” rhetoric is exactly why the NRA failed to stay relevant. More and more gun owners do not fit the traditional demographic of this country, and that message doesn’t appeal to people who want their guns, but also are capable of acknowledging and actually discussing that there is a problem with gun violence in this country and we need to figure it out.

Refusing to even enter the building is no way to inject your agenda into the discussion (NRA). If you show up and demonstrate a capacity to engage in a serious, thoughtful conversation, people will value what you have to say. We need a group that does that for 2A.

Please stop referring to it as "gun violence" It is "people violence" by people who just happen to be using guns to perpetrate it.

 

[Hunting Wife]

Please stop referring to it as "gun violence" It is "people violence" by people who just happen to be using guns to perpetrate it.

Call it what you want. Does not change the perceived problem or need to discuss the underlying cause and how best to address whatever that is.

 

[grizzly63]

Call it what you want. Does not change the perceived problem or need to discuss the underlying cause and how best to address whatever that is.

You are personifying inanimate objects. Kind of like the talking Bambi character. Lets call it what it is and not keep perpetuating that the guns are the problem. I understand there exist problems. I think you are going to see the coming administration bring about more changes than we can handle. Maybe they can address some of the issues you are referring to. Remember, nothing comes for free. Expect more taxes. Hopefully the supreme court holds them from going to far. If they go too nuts, the pendulum might swing the other way in four years.

 

[Hunting Wife]

You are personifying inanimate objects. Kind of like the talking Bambi character. Lets call it what it is and not keep perpetuating that the guns are the problem. I understand there exist problems. I think you are going to see the coming administration bring about more changes than we can handle. Maybe they can address some of the issues you are referring to. Remember, nothing comes for free. Expect more taxes. Hopefully the supreme court holds them from going to far. If they go too nuts, the pendulum might swing the other way in four years.

I’m not personifying anything. Again, someone is injecting added meaning to what I wrote. I am simply discussing a well-established line of thought and how the NRA could more effectively insert the views of law-abiding gun owners into the discussion.

We sit on the sidelines arguing semantics and definitions instead of getting into the meat and potatoes of the discussion. This right here is another area where 2A advocates are failing. It feels like a deflection or an excuse to keep from engaging in a real conversation with people who don’t share our views. To what end?

In the meantime, our failure to engage meaningfully allows the anti-2A folks to run the table. We need a better strategy that better articulates our point of view and educates the non-gun owning majority. Similar to the shift in dialogue surrounding hunting that has begun taking place over the last few years.

I feel like we’re losing sight of the forest for the trees here.

 

[Pmacc60]

Call it what you want. Does not change the perceived problem or need to discuss the underlying cause and how best to address whatever that is

I’m not personifying anything. Again, someone is injecting added meaning to what I wrote. I am simply discussing a well-established line of thought and how the NRA could more effectively insert the views of law-abiding gun owners into the discussion.

We sit on the sidelines arguing semantics and definitions instead of getting into the meat and potatoes of the discussion. This right here is another area where 2A advocates are failing. It feels like a deflection or an excuse to keep from engaging in a real conversation with people who don’t share our views. To what end?

In the meantime, our failure to engage meaningfully allows the anti-2A folks to run the table. We need a better strategy that better articulates our point of view and educates the non-gun owning majority. Similar to the shift in dialogue surrounding hunting that has begun taking place over the last few years.

I feel like we’re losing sight of the forest for the trees here.

Hunting wife , I’m not replying to be antagonistic so that being said I must tell you you are wrong. Here in the East we are not sitting on the side lines we have peaceful demonstrations , active conversation and contacting our state reps and it goes on daily. Virginia gun owns put on a demonstration to protest new gun legislation , thousands of gun owners with their guns made a show of force and it was peaceful and no violence. The Governor said they were going for with the legislations the protest did not matter ! MD has many groups taking on this fight I am a member of Maryland shooters I get sent emails weekly letting me know what’s going on. Even though the local law-enforcement came out and support of not using the new LQL,( long gun qualification lic ) sheriffs said they would not enforce the new law and it did nothing. January 4 they introduced a bill again to try to push it through . Gary Devine of New Jersey has fought bad gun laws and Black bear hunting laws with facts and figures along with his fellow resident hunters and shooters all to no avail !

Your fellow hunters and gun owners are out there in force but whether you see it or not we are against a stack deck. 2A is constantly being misinterpreted and as a high school junior with a library card I found meaning our forefathers of the 2 amendment . Most importantly liberals on the East and west coast are setting to agenda and controlling the dialogue through misinformation , social media and the press. How many times do I have to see acts of liberal violence , rioting , anarchy , burning and people who are will to commit crimes on national news. I don’t want to loose my right to hunt or own firearms so I won’t engage like many of us in that extremism ! That’s why we will lose this fight , some liberals will go to extremes to stop your rights while the rest of us will go to work and support our families . The NRA understood that back the 70’s and developed bully tactics in Washington , that’s one of the few liberal truths. Now they have adopted the same tactics openly.

Hunting Wife , your comments remind me of what it must have been like back in the 1800’s when northern Americans said slavery is wrong and all we need to do is get southerners in meaningful conversation and we can change their culture. Why not slavery was wrong on every level , how did that work out ?

The NRA is broken and it’s time may be over , it should be because without credibility it’s useless. That being said we are on peril as hunters and gun owners and we need advocates in Washington. The press , social media and the newly elected administration are against us. This is hard fact , so my long winded post comes down to , what are your ideas on going forward ? I respectfully ask that you add to the conversation your thoughts. I’m not your enemy or anyone else I am your fellow American , I will fight for your rights as well as my own. We all need each other ! My point has to be explain in detail because you all do not know me ! I hate politics I just want to talk rifles , calibers and hunting and fishing but unless I get my head out of the sand I may not get to do that in the near future . Big tech is already working to shut down site like this ! So I ask for meaningful ideas , what are you suggestions , I am here to listen! Who knows you may be the inspiration to get a new advocate group started !

 

[Hunting Wife]

Hunting wife , I’m not replying to be antagonistic so that being said I must tell you you are wrong. Here in the East we are not sitting on the side lines we have peaceful demonstrations , active conversation and contacting our state reps and it goes on daily. Virginia gun owns put on a demonstration to protest new gun legislation , thousands of gun owners with their guns made a show of force and it was peaceful and no violence. The Governor said they were going for with the legislations the protest did not matter ! MD has many groups taking on this fight I am a member of Maryland shooters I get sent emails weekly letting me know what’s going on. Even though the local law-enforcement came out and support of not using the new LQL,( long gun qualification lic ) sheriffs said they would not enforce the new law and it did nothing. January 4 they introduced a bill again to try to push it through . Gary Devine of New Jersey has fought bad gun laws and Black bear hunting laws with facts and figures along with his fellow resident hunters and shooters all to no avail !

Your fellow hunters and gun owners are out there in force but whether you see it or not we are against a stack deck. 2A is constantly being misinterpreted and as a high school junior with a library card I found meaning our forefathers of the 2 amendment . Most importantly liberals on the East and west coast are setting to agenda and controlling the dialogue through misinformation , social media and the press. How many times do I have to see acts of liberal violence , rioting , anarchy , burning and people who are will to commit crimes on national news. I don’t want to loose my right to hunt or own firearms so I won’t engage like many of us in that extremism ! That’s why we will lose this fight , some liberals will go to extremes to stop your rights while the rest of us will go to work and support our families . The NRA understood that back the 70’s and developed bully tactics in Washington , that’s one of the few liberal truths. Now they have adopted the same tactics openly.

Hunting Wife , your comments remind me of what it must have been like back in the 1800’s when northern Americans said slavery is wrong and all we need to do is get southerners in meaningful conversation and we can change their culture. Why not slavery was wrong on every level , how did that work out ?

The NRA is broken and it’s time may be over , it should be because without credibility it’s useless. That being said we are on peril as hunters and gun owners and we need advocates in Washington. The press , social media and the newly elected administration are against us. This is hard fact , so my long winded post comes down to , what are your ideas on going forward ? I respectfully ask that you add to the conversation your thoughts. I’m not your enemy or anyone else I am your fellow American , I will fight for your rights as well as my own. We all need each other ! My point has to be explain in detail because you all do not know me ! I hate politics I just want to talk rifles , calibers and hunting and fishing but unless I get my head out of the sand I may not get to do that in the near future . Big tech is already working to shut down site like this ! So I ask for meaningful ideas , what are you suggestions , I am here to listen! Who knows you may be the inspiration to get a new advocate group started !

I’ve stated repeatedly what my ideas are going forward, and you’ve repeatedly followed me here and elsewhere to tell me I’m wrong. I’m not sure why you seem to have a problem with me in particular, but my point is not to “win” or be right. My point is to get people thinking about how better to participate in the dialogue, because it’s going to happen with or without us. I agree, the NRA is broken. That’s why I’m discussing ways we can engage without them. You clearly feel attempting to engage is futile. Noted. I disagree. Let’s move on.

I feel like you’ve spent a lot of time focusing on who’s from where, and making assumptions and judgements about individuals based on nearly zero actual information. If this is how you approach critical conversations, I can see why you believe constructive discussion with “others” is impossible.

 

[Treeshark]

Generally do not wade into these on here...

Pmac- after being proven wrong about the Obama Tax issue you mentioned earlier, has it occurred to you that perhaps it’s possible that some of your other hard and firm stances are based on things that may not be exactly how you see them?

I think of this Mark Twain quote when I feel myself getting headstrong:

“It Ain’t What You Don’t Know That Gets You Into Trouble. It’s What You Know for Sure That Just Ain’t So.”​

 

[Pmacc60]

Generally do not wade into these on here...

Pmac- after being proven wrong about the Obama Tax issue you mentioned earlier, has it occurred to you that perhaps it’s possible that some of your other hard and firm stances are based on things that may not be exactly how you see them?

As Mark Twain put it...

“It Ain’t What You Don’t Know That Gets You Into Trouble. It’s What You Know for Sure That Just Ain’t So.”​

No it was not a hard stance on Obama , I had no qualms with him as president as a matter of fact I was proud we elected a black man . I felt this country had turned the corner. I was wrong however getting back to you and your point ! I was wrong and I owned it and said as much . I didn’t hide or go away . My opinion is that .... opinion , going forward I will not engage what I’m not positive about , lesson learned .