NRA On The Hot Seat - Exposed or Attacked?

[nontyp]

This is their version of what is happening. Deception upon deception.

 

[2ski]

The article I read mentioned recently the NRA said they are better financially than they ever have been. So how can they file for bankruptcy?

 

[Jbotto]

The article I read mentioned recently the NRA said they are better financially than they ever have been. So how can they file for bankruptcy?

I can’t believe that they aren’t hurting. Been a long time since I’ve heard someone proud to carry their card around in their wallet. I’m a life member. They haven’t got a dime from me in probably five years.

 

[Cornell2012]

The NRA was sued in August by New York Attorney General Letitia James, who accused LaPierre and other senior leaders of self-dealing and mismanagement, and said the group’s activities violated state laws governing nonprofits.

James said NRA officials diverted millions of dollars to fund luxury lifestyles, including vacations and private jets, and to buy the silence and loyalty of former employees, costing the group $64 million over three years.

National Rifle Association files for bankruptcy, seeking to escape New York lawsuit

The National Rifle Association on Friday filed for bankruptcy, a sudden development that could help the gun rights group escape a lawsuit by New York's attorney general seeking its dissolution.

www.reuters.com

The National Rifle Association acted as a "foreign asset" for Russia in the period leading up to the 2016 election, according to a new investigation unveiled Friday by Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore.

Drawing on contemporaneous emails and private interviews, an 18-month probe by the Senate Finance Committee's Democratic staff found that the NRA underwrote political access for Russian nationals Maria Butina and Alexander Torshin more than previously known — even though the two had declared their ties to the Kremlin.

NRA Was 'Foreign Asset' To Russia Ahead of 2016, New Senate Report Reveals

Emails and interviews detail the extent to which the National Rifle Association helped two of Moscow's agents ahead of the election, Senate Finance Committee Democrats say.

www.npr.org

Strategy:
1. Build large membership base
2. Work with government employees of a hostile country
3. Shadily spend money
4. Claim bankruptcy and reincorporate under the guise of political persecution
5. ???
6. Profit

This screams of corruption at the highest levels. If this is the primary group that we have defending the 2A, we're in trouble.

 

[rtraverdavis]

I’m sure it’s been asked before, but is there a legitimate alternative pro-2A group that does the job the NRA should be doing without all the slimeball corruption shit and heavy handed fear mongering?

 

[Trial153]

I’m sure it’s been asked before, but is there a legitimate alternative pro-2A group that does the job the NRA should be doing without all the slimeball corruption shit and heavy handed fear mongering?

So if the answer is no. The questions begs to ask how it helps our cause to be in bed with crooks? Is that the image we want? Does that change hearts and minds of people on the fence?

 

[rtraverdavis]

So if the answer is no. The questions begs to ask how it helps our cause to be in bed with crooks? Is that the image we want? Does that change hearts and minds of people on the fence?

Never been an NRA member, just to clarify. Not that it matters. If there’s not a legitimate alternative, there should be.

 

[Dsnow9]

I

I’m sure it’s been asked before, but is there a legitimate alternative pro-2A group that does the job the NRA should be doing without all the slimeball corruption shit and heavy handed fear mongering?

I have heard GOA, gun owners of America is good, but I do not know first hand.

 

[mxracer317]

GoDaddy removes gun forum website AR15.com from its servers | Fox News Video

Site owner Pete Brownell joins 'Tucker Carlson Tonight' to discuss censoring conservative content

video.foxnews.com

This is getting out of control.

I’m taking a stand and not supporting companies that do stuff like this.

Just permanently deleted my Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. I’m out.

Gonna be spending a lot more time on Hunt Talk, so all y’all better be posting more or I’m gonna go nuts

 

[Little Canyon Creek]

If there’s not a legitimate alternative, there should be.

I remember a 2015 PBS Frontline episode where they talk about how the NRA was working with Joe Manchin on passing some very modest gun control legislation in the wake of the Sandy Hook shootings. But some groups that were even more hardline than the NRA caught wind of this and started making noise that the NRA wasn't really sticking up for people's 2A rights. Not wanting to lose membership dollars to these other groups, they pulled out of negotiating with Manchin and came out against the legislation they had been working on. The legislation obviously died as they weren't going to get enough GOP senators to clear the filibuster or enough GOP representatives to sign onto the bill to pass the House with the NRA opposing it.

So I think the phrase "a legitimate alternative" could be taken a lot of different ways. My guess is that it would be really easy to find other 2A groups that would oppose any and all gun control legislation. It is easy to set up activist groups that preach no compromise rhetoric in the age of asymmetric polarization. If you think a legitimate alternative is a 2A group that works across the aisle so that Ruger 10/22s don't get caught up in AR-15 legislation, then I think finding a group like that would be a lot harder. How many NRA members would join a group that preached "We like guns, but we also like compromise." My guess is not many.

When I think about the NRA corruption scandals, I get really frustrated. They were too afraid of what would have likely been a momentary dip in membership levels to actually try and productively solve some problems. And why was that? Because losing member dollars threatened their ability to keep buying fancy clothes and flying to the Bahamas.

 

[rtraverdavis]

I remember a 2015 PBS Frontline episode where they talk about how the NRA was working with Joe Manchin on passing some very modest gun control legislation in the wake of the Sandy Hook shootings. But some groups that were even more hardline than the NRA caught wind of this and started making noise that the NRA wasn't really sticking up for people's 2A rights. Not wanting to lose membership dollars to these other groups, they pulled out of negotiating with Manchin and came out against the legislation they had been working on. The legislation obviously died as they weren't going to get enough GOP senators to clear the filibuster or enough GOP representatives to sign onto the bill to pass the House with the NRA opposing it.

So I think the phrase "a legitimate alternative" could be taken a lot of different ways. My guess is that it would be really easy to find other 2A groups that would oppose any and all gun control legislation. It is easy to set up activist groups that preach no compromise rhetoric in the age of asymmetric polarization. If you think a legitimate alternative is a 2A group that works across the aisle so that Ruger 10/22s don't get caught up in AR-15 legislation, then I think finding a group like that would be a lot harder. How many NRA members would join a group that preached "We like guns, but we also like compromise." My guess is not many.

When I think about the NRA corruption scandals, I get really frustrated. They were too afraid of what would have likely been a momentary dip in membership levels to actually try and productively solve some problems. And why was that? Because losing member dollars threatened their ability to keep buying fancy clothes and flying to the Bahamas.

I honestly don’t know where I’m at as far as compromise goes these days. I used to be much more on the side of compromising, but am far less so now. There are a lot of absolutely asinine gun control proposals that would do nothing to address the root causes of gun violence, and would only serve to create headaches for legal shooters.

I guess I’d just like to see a 2A group handle the whole PR thing differently than the NRA has. Rather than creating this fire and brimstone, us vs. them narrative, work to educate the public on the causes of gun violence (mostly poverty and people feeling marginalized as far as I can see) being the problem that really needs addressing, and showing that responsible gun ownership is a benefit to society.

I’m sure there’s a whole lot that I don’t understand and am naive about, but I didn’t own my own gun until my late 20s and I can remember prior to becoming an engaged hunter and gun owner being incredibly turned off by the NRA’s rhetoric.

 

[Little Canyon Creek]

I honestly don’t know where I’m at as far as compromise goes these days. I used to be much more on the side of compromising, but am far less so now. There are a lot of absolutely asinine gun control proposals that would do nothing to address the root causes of gun violence, and would only serve to create headaches for legal shooters.

I guess I’d just like to see a 2A group handle the whole PR thing differently than the NRA has. Rather than creating this fire and brimstone, us vs. them narrative, work to educate the public on the causes of gun violence (mostly poverty and people feeling marginalized as far as I can see) being the problem that really needs addressing, and showing that responsible gun ownership is a benefit to society.

I’m sure there’s a whole lot that I don’t understand and am naive about, but I didn’t own my own gun until my late 20s and I can remember prior to becoming an engaged hunter and gun owner being incredibly turned off by the NRA’s rhetoric.

I think you could make an argument that when actual knowledgeable gun owners aren't at the table when legislation is written, it can make for not very good legislation. I don't think the NRA has done a good job representing the long term interests of gunowners by always opposing these efforts.

 

[Pmacc60]

This is all so disheartening , when we need to stand up to the biggest threat we ever faced with Joe Biden and both Congress and the Senate in his favor! We needed the NRA to be strong and they let us down, yes I’m a member. I fear for our future generations , they may never know this right we all so much cherish. The first and second amendments aren’t 1 and 2 by chance , our forefathers knew one was protected by the other. Looks like we are having both attacked at the same time. I wonder and I hope I’m wrong if hunt talk will be shut down because we are deemed controversial ? This is the challenge we are facing in the future. Stand against censorship and stand up for each other’s legal right to own and shoot firearms. Don’t give an inch !!!! Our future depends on us standing together!

 

[runningmt]

This is all so disheartening , when we need to stand up to the biggest threat we ever faced with Joe Biden and both Congress and the Senate in his favor! We needed the NRA to be strong and they let us down, yes I’m a member. I fear for our future generations , they may never know this right we all so much cherish. The first and second amendments aren’t 1 and 2 by chance , our forefathers knew one was protected by the other. Looks like we are having both attacked at the same time. I wonder and I hope I’m wrong if hunt talk will be shut down because we are deemed controversial ? This is the challenge we are facing in the future. Stand against censorship and stand up for each other’s legal right to own and shoot firearms. Don’t give an inch !!!! Our future depends on us standing together!

There is no threat from Biden. Just Fox News Fear Tactics. The only President to pass ANY anti-gun legislation in the last 25 years is Donald J Trump.

Truth is truth. Don’t believe the fear mongers.

GW expanded gun rights.

Obama expanded gun rights.

 

[Hunting Wife]

The “don’t give an inch” rhetoric is exactly why the NRA failed to stay relevant. More and more gun owners do not fit the traditional demographic of this country, and that message doesn’t appeal to people who want their guns, but also are capable of acknowledging and actually discussing that there is a problem with gun violence in this country and we need to figure it out.

Refusing to even enter the building is no way to inject your agenda into the discussion (NRA). If you show up and demonstrate a capacity to engage in a serious, thoughtful conversation, people will value what you have to say. We need a group that does that for 2A.

 

[MTGomer]

The NRA has supported most gun control that is in effect.

We should be repealing the NFA and the DOJ should be prosecuting people that violate the constitution in regards to gun (and all other) rights.

Instead the NRA tells us we must vote for “take the guns now, due process later” Trump, while his ATF-which shouldn’t even exist- keeps on making arbitrary rules about stupid things like pistol braces.

The NRA obnoxiously acts like this big, tough, no compromise, F the commie libs organization, but reality seems to be a bit different.
If the NRA actually didn’t give an inch that would be fine. I won’t support any organization that will. The NRA is all talk and their talk is obnoxious. Their messaging is terrible.

I bet LaPierre bought some dope ties with our money though.

 

[runningmt]

The “don’t give an inch” rhetoric is exactly why the NRA failed to stay relevant. More and more gun owners do not fit the traditional demographic of this country, and that message doesn’t appeal to people who want their guns, but also are capable of acknowledging and actually discussing that there is a problem with gun violence in this country and we need to figure it out.

Refusing to even enter the building is no way to inject your agenda into the discussion (NRA). If you show up and demonstrate a capacity to engage in a serious, thoughtful conversation, people will value what you have to say. We need a group that does that for 2A.

Very well said

 

[Ben Lamb]

We should be repealing the NFA and the DOJ should be prosecuting people that violate the constitution in regards to gun (and all other) rights.

Just pointing out that repealing the NFA would allow for anyone to purchase fully automatic weapons during a time in our nation when both extremist factions are uparming for the revolution of dunces.

 

[MTGomer]

when both extremist factions are uparming for the revolution of dunces.

Let them kill each other.

If you can afford a belt fed, I want you to be able to buy one.(as long as you let me shoot it)

 

[Big Fin]

Imagine if you were given a brand to build a business around (with "business" being how successful non-profits operate) and you drove it into the ground during a period when 7 million new customers were handed to you, in addition to the existing 70 million customers that exist of which you have penetrated less than 5% of that existing market.

That is what the NRA has done. In the last two years we have 7 million new gun owners, guns and ammo sales are at all-time highs, a scarcity exists in all parts and components, yet the NRA has to file bankruptcy. They and their marketing message have only been able to appeal to 5% of existing gun owners.

The NRA has been given the baton of a Constitutional right under 2A, and they still can't make a go of it in an environment with virtually no competition. They have failed. No other way to say it. The NRA had nothing but tailwinds and a downhill grade from a business standpoint, and they ran it off the rails and we now see a pile of smoldering wreckage that is our interest in 2A.

If that was a corporation the entire Board of Directors, all senior management, and all trusted consultants/advisors would be gone. This is completely unacceptable. House cleaning is far more necessary than the irresponsible bankruptcy route that only passes the financial burden onto groups who helped keep the NRA afloat to this point. Vendors, contractors, others who the NRA owes money to will get screwed.

Next time the NRA tells me they support conservative principles, I'm gonna ask them when stiffing folks who do good work is a conservative principle. Most all reading this pay their bills, live within their budgets/means, and take responsibility. Yet the NRA is wanting a bail out, to not be held accountable for their financial malfeasance, displaying the antithesis of responsibility and the conservative principles they claim to support.

I've given them my opinions when the opportunity was presented. I know many much higher up in the shooting and hunting industry have given them an earful. I know some larger donors have voiced concerns. Yet, those who hold the reins of power, mostly the Executive Committee of the Board, the Board Nominating Committee, and the Senior Executive staff are all deaf to the calls for change. Given how much ignorance and arrogance is on display at the NRA, the only remaining path is to watch it implode and take a few more generations to rebuild an organization worthy of the trust gun owners have placed in the NRA.

Yes, at the time when representation on gun issues is at a premium, those who we have entrusted with that cause have failed us gun owners and members. A lot of ground might be lost due to the ineptitude of those leading the NRA. It is a reality. It is a lesson to be learned. This failure is not the fault of those promoting gun restrictions. The NRA had every possible benefit, every advantage in numbers and financing, every possible legal benefit of a constitutionally protected cause.

And here we are, watching the place burn down while those in charge take their grifting ways to a new location, asking the court to screw over the many people who they owe money, and let them hit the reset button for a new start without even the slightest demand for change or reform.

As an Endowment Life Member, the NRA and the current cadre of crooks will never get another dime from me. I will continue to advocate for gun ownership and do what I can to speak up for my rights under 2A. Giving money and the responsibility for this cause to the NRA is a proven path to failure.

Odds are we will not have another organization to replace the NRA. The NRA has damaged the trust gun owners have placed in them, making it unlikely a replacement group can overcome the scars the NRA has struck. It will be incumbent on each of us to speak up, to write, call, email our elected officials and make our voices heard. That is a far more effective manner than sending money, and the implied trust and responsibility that goes with money, to the NRA. The current ship of fools has proven time and again that they are not worthy of our trust.

A sad day, for sure. The sooner we face the reality and quit pretending the situation will change, the sooner gun owners will be started down a better path.

I better go shovel some snow. This entire fiasco, watching it unfold over the last five years, pisses me off to no end. If I typed what I really want to say, I would have to ban myself from Hunt Talk.