It would remove the cap on NR deer and elk tags and they figure it to be roughly 3000 outfitted clients who didn't draw.
Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)
- Thread starter Big Fin
- Start date
- Status
What are the odds this happens and as a NR will my voice help? I have an email typed up.
T
timmy
Guest
One in a million
Andrew Posewitz
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2020
- Messages
- 28
This breaks my heart, it really does. At $5,000 per guided hunt (intentionally conservative) this just resulted in $15,000,000 of revenue to use to lease up land and keep you off. At $15m with 400ish guides, it is roughly $38k per outfitter. No more complaints about the $1200 stimulus please.
The bill sponsor referred to something like bumbling out of staters should be with a guide, that should piss you off to your core, it does me. The flip side is they upped by $7,500 the payments for those few (less than 20) landowners maxed out and providing public access in block management. You do the math on that, compare it to the numbers above and see who values public access and public land and who doesn’t.
My grieving is officially over. Here are some things we can do:
Remember who did this to you today. Not just for the day, and not just for tomorrow, next week or next month, but for the next two years and the years after that. If this matters to you, vote like it, otherwise stop being mad.
The cards have never been more clearly laid on the table than they were today. This bill was dead for a month, shoved in on the next to last day of the session, voted the same day it was introduced by both houses in a bill that had nothing to do with outfitters. None of this is an accident and they are counting on you to not notice and not remember. Prove them wrong or stop being mad.
You all likely belong to organizations that are related to the outdoors. Find out who went to battle on this, really went to battle. Ask the others you belong to why they didn’t. If they are no longer serving you as a member, get them to change, leave, or stop being mad.
My vote and your vote will not be enough, we each have to change 5 votes, or even 10. What happened today is evidence that they don’t care about public hunting, they don’t care about you and they certainly don’t think you will change your votes. Prove them wrong or stop being mad.
I have seen my Dad’s rules for leadership bouncing around these chat rooms. Here are the two I will hold close for a while:
5. When you talk to your people, preach hope and possibility. Eric Hoffer said revolution is built on hope, not despair. The conservation community is terrible for wailing on the peril of things – that inspires no one.
6. Make everything work for you, the good and bad. The best example is how the conservation movement used James Watt to rebuild their movement.
The bill sponsor referred to something like bumbling out of staters should be with a guide, that should piss you off to your core, it does me. The flip side is they upped by $7,500 the payments for those few (less than 20) landowners maxed out and providing public access in block management. You do the math on that, compare it to the numbers above and see who values public access and public land and who doesn’t.
My grieving is officially over. Here are some things we can do:
Remember who did this to you today. Not just for the day, and not just for tomorrow, next week or next month, but for the next two years and the years after that. If this matters to you, vote like it, otherwise stop being mad.
The cards have never been more clearly laid on the table than they were today. This bill was dead for a month, shoved in on the next to last day of the session, voted the same day it was introduced by both houses in a bill that had nothing to do with outfitters. None of this is an accident and they are counting on you to not notice and not remember. Prove them wrong or stop being mad.
You all likely belong to organizations that are related to the outdoors. Find out who went to battle on this, really went to battle. Ask the others you belong to why they didn’t. If they are no longer serving you as a member, get them to change, leave, or stop being mad.
My vote and your vote will not be enough, we each have to change 5 votes, or even 10. What happened today is evidence that they don’t care about public hunting, they don’t care about you and they certainly don’t think you will change your votes. Prove them wrong or stop being mad.
I have seen my Dad’s rules for leadership bouncing around these chat rooms. Here are the two I will hold close for a while:
5. When you talk to your people, preach hope and possibility. Eric Hoffer said revolution is built on hope, not despair. The conservation community is terrible for wailing on the peril of things – that inspires no one.
6. Make everything work for you, the good and bad. The best example is how the conservation movement used James Watt to rebuild their movement.
BuzzH
Well-known member
I see this as the best option moving forward.
Carnage2011
Well-known member
Talk about a kick in the nuts to the people of Montana. The outfitting community can look in the mirror next time things don’t go their way...greedy, self serving fuks.
MTLabrador
Well-known member
Don’t worry folks, I’m sure the outfitters will be back on to remind us that this wasn’t MOGA’s bill and that they really care about the resource and know what’s best.
What an absolute joke.
What an absolute joke.
JEL
Well-known member
Hell we shut down game farms with a ballot initiative. Maybe we should approach MOGA the same way. I mean if that’s the way they want to play it.
HSi-ESi
Well-known member
I've been holding off on emails, after the vote because I don't want to torch any bridges - even though it would feel good right now - I know it would not be productive.
I just have to leave it at that for now.
I just have to leave it at that for now.
HSi-ESi
Well-known member
Also, WTF is an "inedible moose"? and how am I entitled to another tag?
BuzzH
Well-known member
I hate to say it...but stick a fork in Montana...its done.
Wildlife has no chance and a dim future, IMO.
It's all about money, outfitters, and landowners and nobody gives a flying f&*k about anything else. IF they truly did, they wouldn't have voted for these assholes from the get-go.
Seriously, who is shocked about this? You could see this coming from 100 miles out.
Wildlife has no chance and a dim future, IMO.
It's all about money, outfitters, and landowners and nobody gives a flying f&*k about anything else. IF they truly did, they wouldn't have voted for these assholes from the get-go.
Seriously, who is shocked about this? You could see this coming from 100 miles out.
Over the last couple months I had offered to every legislator who would listen, to any outfitter who would listen, and many of the landowner groups that I, and many other hunters, were interested in meeting over the next couple of years to try address concerns that could solve problems that actually existed (not manufactured problems). Things unfolding at the last minute, in this manner, makes it pretty hard to think that any future offers for discussion would be with people you feel deal in good faith.
With the sour taste of this bill, some may not see all the hunting, access, and conservation that was protected from really bad bills, but I'd ask all of you to take a look at the really bad bills that were killed this session. The overwhelming odds of how this legislature was stacked mirrored the Finns versus the Russians in the Winter War of 1939.
It not seem that way right now, but measured against the onslaught of anti-hunting, anti-access, anti-conservation, hunters and anglers represented themselves very well. Don't let one bill, however bitter, passed at the last hour, discount how much was protected.
Lots of assessment to make from this session and mount a better strategy going forward. It has become more obvious than ever who can be trusted, who is on the side of the average hunter, and whose prioritizes wildlife and the resource.
Hopefully, the many disengaged hunters and anglers who use their dislike of politics as reason to not be involved will see ask questions when they see some of this mess unfold. And when they ask the question, "How did this happen?" they will resolve to not let it happen again.
It has been a draining few months. So many worked so hard this session and many worked frantically the last few days when word came that this mess might be served up at the last minute. I cannot thank all of you for the work you did. It is remarkable to see how effective you were, doing so much with so little. I got to meet some of you in person and that was worth the trips and miles traveled.
Let's resolve to play some offense in the coming years. SISU!
With the sour taste of this bill, some may not see all the hunting, access, and conservation that was protected from really bad bills, but I'd ask all of you to take a look at the really bad bills that were killed this session. The overwhelming odds of how this legislature was stacked mirrored the Finns versus the Russians in the Winter War of 1939.
It not seem that way right now, but measured against the onslaught of anti-hunting, anti-access, anti-conservation, hunters and anglers represented themselves very well. Don't let one bill, however bitter, passed at the last hour, discount how much was protected.
Lots of assessment to make from this session and mount a better strategy going forward. It has become more obvious than ever who can be trusted, who is on the side of the average hunter, and whose prioritizes wildlife and the resource.
Hopefully, the many disengaged hunters and anglers who use their dislike of politics as reason to not be involved will see ask questions when they see some of this mess unfold. And when they ask the question, "How did this happen?" they will resolve to not let it happen again.
It has been a draining few months. So many worked so hard this session and many worked frantically the last few days when word came that this mess might be served up at the last minute. I cannot thank all of you for the work you did. It is remarkable to see how effective you were, doing so much with so little. I got to meet some of you in person and that was worth the trips and miles traveled.
Let's resolve to play some offense in the coming years. SISU!
T
timmy
Guest
The best thing that could have happened was allowing the original bill to pass. It will diminish hunting in Montana further. Show me one time when it’s gotten better. It simply isn’t going to happen.
BuzzH
Well-known member
I guess if nothing else, let what's happening in Montana be a warning to other States...
Complacency and elections have consequences of the dire kind.
Complacency and elections have consequences of the dire kind.
Schaaf
Well-known member
That awkward moment when you thought your Representative you voted for from Fort Benton was going to get the border wall built and find out what was on Hunter Biden’s laptop but all he did was try and kill every single elk in the state and help give socialism to the outfitting industry 
Last edited:
shoots-straight
Well-known member
So does anyone have the actual version that was passed?
Brad W
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2021
- Messages
- 222
Wow...I got back from four days in the mountains last night and woke up to this. So much for protecting the resource or respecting the will of the people. Dirty politics at its worst with no real chance for public input.
- Status
