Non-political Make ICE hate make sense to me. Can it be civil?

[cgasner1]

Funny enough.
Im for deportation of illegal immigrants.
But I happen to believe in the constitution and the bill of rights.
So why do I dislike what is going on?
In short I believe every human should be treated humanly in accordance to our constitution.
People are arguing to give up their own constitutional rights because it's not currently happening to them. People are stupid.

Longer but not complete version.

The administration is.
Not allowing a judge to decide if someone is a citizen. (Thats unconstitutional.)

You either have papers and citizenship or you don’t what is there to decide? I can either go sheep hunting or I can’t it’s pretty black and white

The administration is.
Going after anyone who publicly speaks out against it including the media. (Thats unconstitutional.)

This is politics in general you can’t just blame one side.

The administration is.
Not obeying the orders of numerous judges on the subject.
(Thats unconstitutional.)

Pretty sure I don’t get to vote on these judges and they are sitting in their seats till they die or their party of choice is back in power. Seems kinda unconstitutional for them to have the day over someone that was voted in

The administration is.
Wanting to deport US citizens based on skin colorand or political beliefs(Thats unconstitutional.)

I’ve seen numbers with people of all races being deported but most news won’t show you that. Believe it or not they are sending white people back to places also

The administration is.
Saying that I cant have a holstered gun at a protest despite there being a long standing president that I can. (Thats unconstitutional.)

A big difference in having a gun and a permit and standing back than pushing a le if any kind

The administration is.
Saying anyone who is recording Ice or observing is a domestic terrorist(Thats unconstitutional.)

All sorts of videos of them just asking people to stand back. Kinda same theory as don’t let the buffalo.

The administration is.
Saying that Ice agents have full and complete immunity. (Thats unconstitutional.)

I haven’t seen anything about this

The administration is.
Obviously using a states political leaning to decide how aggressively it is going to enforceimmigration. Thats political retribution(Thats unconstitutional.)

Seems odd the issues are only coming out of one state and the governor isn’t a vp

The administration has shown it will do whatever it takes to achieve its goals.
No law or document will stand in its way that's dangerous and lord help us the pendulum keeps swinging further each way. Trump has written the playback on how to go around the constitution of the United States and things will be different from now on.

 

[Elkmagnet]

You either have papers and citizenship or you don’t what is there to decide? I can either go sheep hunting or I can’t it’s pretty black and white

This is politics in general you can’t just blame one side.

Pretty sure I don’t get to vote on these judges and they are sitting in their seats till they die or their party of choice is back in power. Seems kinda unconstitutional for them to have the day over someone that was voted in

I’ve seen numbers with people of all races being deported but most news won’t show you that. Believe it or not they are sending white people back to places also

A big difference in having a gun and a permit and standing back than pushing a le if any kind

All sorts of videos of them just asking people to stand back. Kinda same theory as don’t let the buffalo.

I haven’t seen anything about this

Seems odd the issues are only coming out of one state and the governor isn’t a vp

Im not addressing everyone's opinions on my perspective but you really don't see anywhere that people's rights have been violated? Wow Trump 2028!

 

[TOGIE]

 

[cgasner1]

Im not addressing everyone's opinions on my perspective but you really don't see anywhere that people's rights have been violated? Wow.

That is not at all what I said. But also are my right being violated when I show a game warden my hunting license or tag?

 

[SAJ-99]

Being allowed to break the law for 5,10 or 20 years doesn't grant you anything.

As someone who hired someone with a fake SS prior to there being verifications possible the 1099 I sent him was rejected and I believe I was ultimately responsible for the taxes as it was added to my income. That was a very long time ago. So the penalty I suppose is you are then responsible for the taxes. A W2 employee gets verified. But alot in our area are 1099's. Not sure how much that gets verified. And I have also seen them provide LLC's. Which complicates things.

As someone else pointed out, your problems shows the system is broken. And no political party will fix it until Americans demand it be fixed. But thats starts with being a little more open minded than what I quoted in original post. Just being hard headed and refusing to negotiate a position is how we got here.

 

[cgasner1]

Think a bunch of you guys need to write muley freak an apology letter. All he really did was hope a fence in hopes of making his hunting better

 

[Forkyfinder]

That is not at all what I said. But also are my right being violets when I show a game warden my hunting license or tag?

Yeah this is a good question. Would love for some of you to say why you don't comply when a game warden asks for your "papers"

My feeling is that it's based on some implicit trust that he's there to do a job you respect.

 

[cgasner1]

Yeah this is a good question. Would love for some of you to say why you don't comply when a game warden asks for your "papers"

Ow that dead elk in my truck? #*^@#* you and your your racism I don’t need to show you my tag

 

[Nuts]

Im not addressing everyone's opinions on my perspective but you really don't see anywhere that people's rights have been violated? Wow.

Is there an issue with stop and identify? These you tubers open carrying or video taping areas where they know will raise a stir. Refuse to identify because they didn't do anything wrong.

Yeah this is a good question. Would love for some of you to say why you don't comply when a game warden asks for your "papers"

My feeling is that it's based on some implicit trust that he's there to do a job you respect.

I never would have a problem with being asked to identify. I did nothing wrong who cares. Identifying yourself goes all the way back to the constitution. I have never heard a legitimate argument against it IMO.

 

[Steiny77]

The boss is gonna shut this thread down

 

[Nuts]

The boss is gonna shut this thread down

been pretty civil. Were grown men. There is no reason a civil conversation cant happen. One of my best friends grew up opposite of me politically. I always tell him we are not as far apart as you think. Which is likely the case with the avg American. Of course when one party does something stupid a text flies but its all good. Its possible to disagree and be mature about it

 

[TOGIE]

Yeah this is a good question. Would love for some of you to say why you don't comply when a game warden asks for your "papers"

My feeling is that it's based on some implicit trust that he's there to do a job you respect.

Unless you are being lawfully detained you don't have to produce identification, generally. That's just how the law works, for the benefit of the people. Last I checked, skin color wasn't a constitutional reason to be detained. It seems there are verifiable accounts of this happening on numerous occasions in Minn.

You don't have to produce your hunting papers when asked, in theory, but if you don't that implies you're hunting illegally and then you can/will be detained. One can choose to ruin their hunting trip or not over something so silly.

Pretty apples and oranges.

 

[Elkmagnet]

That is not at all what I said. But also are my right being violated when I show a game warden my hunting license or tag?

You already stated you picked your side constitution be damed. Being deported without habeas corpus is the same as a license violation and a court date. Its disingenuous at best.

 

[Elkmagnet]

View attachment 400085

I haven’t seen anything about this

 

[cgasner1]

You already stated you picked your side constitution be damed. Being deported without habeas corpus is the same as a license violation and a court date. Its disingenuous at best.

You picked my side. Last ballot I turned in was purple.

 

[Nunjagottam]

I jumped in a rabbit hole trying to make sense of why the ICE hate. Please do not make this political finger pointing. I genuinely cant make sense of it. Here is what I found

• 100's of websites set up to track and harass ICE
• Very little if any opportunities to support law enforcement without being a target yourself
• All news reporting is biased
• Obama deported more then Trump
• There is a portion of illegal immigrants that have deportation orders
• There is a portion of illegal immigrants that have committed crimes outside of being illegally here
• There is a portion of illegal immigrants who do vote and a portion who do obtain benefits only available to citizens. Also resources are or were used to bring them here and take care of them with tax payer money
  • 1 side will say that some of the above is not possible
  • 1 side will say it absolutely is happening
  • There is a portion of anti-ice folks who lack common decency and are "victims" when held accountable
• There is a portion of ICE and LEO who are done with nonsense and react accordingly

So my initial take.

• Folks are here illegally and should not be. They should be deported. They made the decision to come. Being allowed to break the law for 5,10 or 20 years doesn't grant you anything.
• The anti-ice folks are the loudest so some think that everyone agrees with them
• The everyday American has mixed feelings or supports ICE
  • I 100% agree with removal
  • I feel bad for the families who are established here. However they are here illegally. If they have been here a while they made no steps to become legal
  • Wages have 100% been affected by illegal immigrants here. I have experienced this personally and in my opinion is why a lot of the trades are hurting for labor. Americans wont do the trades job for the same amount your grocery store pays. Wages are suppressed by 25 years of illegal immigrants doing the work. So yes Americans wont do it but they would start if the rates was worth it. I know drywall. In my area I hire company A (Legal) They charge me $75 an hour. They hire company B (legal) who charges A $30-$40 an hour. They hire company C (illegal) who charges B $25-$35 an hour. By the time it gets to the guy doing the work its at $15-$25. And often there is then a Company D. Now imagine if company A or B had the workforce. They could pay $30-$40 fairly easy and someone could live off that somewhat. Which they do not because they cant find men willing to do the work as 25 years ago they got run out.

So what is the opposition to ICE about? I used to flash my lights at a cop ahead. I was told to knock it off. You don't know who you are saving from getting pulled over and what else they might be up to. (Still did it) Here we have people giving criminals a heads up the LE is headed there way. And its not for speeding. Why is that ok?

Yout drywall analogy is spot on. All of this circus is meant to score political points. If employers were fined and imprisoned for breaking the law by employing illegals this shit would be over in 2wk.
As for the masked thugs living out thier fantasy like Eric Cartman; not a good look. Unfortunately, Law Enforcement attracts authoritarian personalities. If the state and local governments would uphold the law and hand over ANYONE found to be in violation of our immigration laws. None of this shit would be happening. We're being played folks!

 

[Nuts]

Unless you are being lawfully detained you don't have to produce identification, generally. Last I checked, skin color wasn't a constitutional reason to be lawfully detained. It seems there are verifiable accounts of this happening on numerous occasions in Minn.

You don't have to produce your hunting papers when asked, in theory, but if you don't that implies you're hunting illegally and then you can be detained. One can choose to ruin their hunting trip or not over something so silly.

Pretty apples and oranges.

Constitution writing time frame: Documents were required and verified simply to see who you were. I am not a Constitution expert but what in all this makes identifying yourself unconstitutional when at the time of writing it was common practice. So if you are doing something that draws attention to yourself why not. And if you are simply walking down the street why not? They did it back then. While I say that I don't think it should be misused to harass people. So that argument may have more standing with me then a Constitutional argument. Or I am just a dumb hick that didn't pay attention in school and is trying to catch up to late in life and isn't tracking

 

[Elkmagnet]

Is there an issue with stop and identify? These you tubers open carrying or video taping areas where they know will raise a stir. Refuse to identify because they didn't do anything wrong.

I never would have a problem with being asked to identify. I did nothing wrong who cares. Identifying yourself goes all the way back to the constitution. I have never heard a legitimate argument against it IMO.

So where does it stop? What about coming in your home without a warrant?

Immigration officers assert sweeping power to enter homes without a judge's warrant, memo says

An Immigration and Customs Enforcement memo obtained by The Associated Press reveals that the agency allows immigration officers to forcibly enter homes to make arrests without a judicial warrant.

apnews.com

Why not let law enforcement in without a warrant you aren’t doing anything illegal right?
YOU are arguing to give up YOUR rights and YOU are happy to do it. Will you be happy to do it when it's Kamala Harris run Ice in your bedroom without a warrant asking if you have a permit for that?

 

[Forkyfinder]

You don't have to produce your hunting papers when asked, in theory, but if you don't that implies you're hunting illegally and then you can/will be detained. One can choose to ruin their hunting trip or not over something so silly.

Let me see if I got this right.

1. Not showing your hunting license when asked (when you are hunting) is grounds for a GF agency to assume you are hunting illegally.
2. Not showing your ID when asked to identity is perfectly legit and no assumptions can be made.

Just the kind of logical consistency I expected.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

The issue is bad business owners hiring illegals and never held accountable....The issue is both sides of the isle suck.....The issue is the way they went about "capturing" the illegals/bad people...The issue is look at all the fraud...The issue is the money the rioter/"protesters" get is directly/indirectly form the US grants from the government...The list goes on and on...

I'm more afraid of AI these days....I said to my wife last night I hope I don't loose my job to AI....maybe we need to open a daycare? LOL