New Road In Alaska

[Mustangs Rule]

It’s disappointing that I’ve seen a decent number of Alaska resident hunters arguing in favor of this road. They say it will “increase access to the area for hunters without airplanes.” They must have overlooked the fact that this is planned as a private industrial toll road with no access for the public.

That fact aside, the road will almost certainly lead to a decrease in the game populations in the area. Tags that were OTC previously will probably go to a draw, and hunting opportunities will likely decrease for everyone.

I have a story to tell.

Happened in the super high country in Peru, called the Altiplano.

I made two trips there almost a decade apart. First trip there was abundant wildlife, great hunting for the few hearty souls that went there,

Then came the energy companies exploring. They built a road, did all the exploration found nothing of value to extract, left, left the road. Ten years later, with access for all, 99 % of the game animals were gone.

Read Andy Russel, the great sheep guide from Canada. Once the roads come in, there are a few banner years of hunting, then the habitat loss, the bozo's come in, some corporations make huge money and the game is gone.

 

[SilentBirdHunter]

The Alaska Industrial Development and Export Authority that is tasked with building and maintaining the road has stated it will not be open to the public. They plan to recoup the $2 billion needed to build the road from truck tolls.

As for the effect on the animals, especially caribou, the Red Dog Mine Road further west near Kotzebue could be a predictor. The Western Arctic herd has been on a steady decline since the Red Dog Mine road was constructed, and their migration path has shifted to avoid that road. The Red Dog Mine road runs east-west, and so will the Ambler road. Biologists in Alaska have stated that the east-west road direction presents a greater disturbance to the caribou which are generally migrating north to south or vice versa. The Haul Road obviously runs north-south so doesn’t have that more disruptive orientation.

It will be interesting to see how this evolves. The Haul Road originally was a private road,
but since it was built with state funds, the court ruled it had to be opened to the public.
If the state is investing $2 billion in construction costs, the same type of court ruling may happen.

 

[cgasner1]

It will be interesting to see how this evolves. The Haul Road originally was a private road,
but since it was built with state funds, the court ruled it had to be opened to the public.
If the state is investing $2 billion in construction costs, the same type of court ruling may happen.

In my small mind I see it being closed to public during the construction of it. I highly doubt it would remain that way after but what do I know

 

[MTGomer]

I’m pretty pro mining but mining companies can finance their own roads. If it’s not feasible, the project isn’t feasible.

I too have seen Alaskans talking about how it will give access to those that can’t afford an air taxi.

Since when did air taxis become expensive? If you can afford the time off work to drive clear the F up there will your fancy truck, all your gear and probably your atv or Argo or whatever, you can afford to just fly.

 

[Big Sky Guy]

Would be interested to see a comparison of what the return for taxpayers would be if market rate royalties were paid vs. just purchasing the 10% stake. I realize it depends on how much/what is actually mined so could do a couple worst/best case scenarios and maybe not something you could put numbers too but would be curious.

 

[BearLakeHunter]

And Copper mining has been notably clean and never once produced any pollution that has ended up in a SuperFund site...

Can’t have batteries for all the EV’s, computers, phones, etc. without precious metals. Can’t have precious metals without mines. I’m not sure what you do.

 

[morley.tyler]

Can’t have batteries for all the EV’s, computers, phones, etc. without precious metals. Can’t have precious metals without mines. I’m not sure what you do.

You make a good point, and I'll admit that this is a Nimby issue. As an outdoorsman who grew up near the Silver Valley (Idaho) and Butte (America), I've seen how these things often end up (as have most people on this site). Overregulation during Democratic administrations lead to making the process too expensive to be profitable, and extreme deregulation under Republican administrations lead to gross pollution and eventual Superfund sites.
I also watched Bull Trout go from abundant to endangered between my ages of 6 & 20.

I'm not anti-extraction, I'm not anti-industry, I'm not anti-exploration. I am anti-ruining the last best places we have. And I am 'pro' having an honest conversation before lobbyists buy our politicians.

 

[SAJ-99]

Would be interested to see a comparison of what the return for taxpayers would be if market rate royalties were paid vs. just purchasing the 10% stake. I realize it depends on how much/what is actually mined so could do a couple worst/best case scenarios and maybe not something you could put numbers too but would be curious.

You bring up a good question on royalties. Mathematically it shouldn't matter as long as the extraction is still profitable. At baseline, mining is expensive so any extra cost is going to make it harder to be profitable. History has shown mining companies are not the most efficient users of capital. The historical pattern is the owners get rich, a few get jobs for the time the mine is open, and the rest of us are left to clean up the mess. Another way to think about it - the government already has a vested interest in the success of every company. It's called taxes. A company's value is a matter of the present value of future earnings, so owning 10% of a company and taxing it an extra 10% are equal, in theory. The difference is timing. Note that the market would have reacted much differently had the Government said it was going to levy a 10% tax on annual EBITDA of these companies. The difference is taking 10% stakes in companies gives an immediate benefit to the "people that matter", which is the company owners/shareholders. It front-loads the future earnings to today and gives a free insurance policy against the company going out of business (any future administration will find it hard to get rid of the stake or not throw some extra funds at the company).

You make a good point, and I'll admit that this is a Nimby issue. As an outdoorsman who grew up near the Silver Valley (Idaho) and Butte (America), I've seen how these things often end up (as have most people on this site). Overregulation during Democratic administrations lead to making the process too expensive to be profitable, and extreme deregulation under Republican administrations lead to gross pollution and eventual Superfund sites.
I also watched Bull Trout go from abundant to endangered between my ages of 6 & 20.

I'm not anti-extraction, I'm not anti-industry, I'm not anti-exploration. I am anti-ruining the last best places we have. And I am 'pro' having an honest conversation before lobbyists buy our politicians.

Agree 1000%. I'm not opposed to any mine, but would rather there be some honesty about the cost/benefit. I also don't like the narrative when it is shoved down our throat to own the "libs" or "environmentalist" or whomever is the enemy of the week. There needs to be some discussion to make sure it is done right, because we will all end up with the bill. But like I said, I don't believe any of this is about benefitting the whole.

 

[Big Sky Guy]

A company's value is a matter of the present value of future earnings, so owning 10% of a company and taxing it an extra 10% are equal, in theory. The difference is timing.

But don’t the government/taxpayers only “win” if those shares are sold at a profit? Whereas a tax is a “win” regardless as long as it’s paid?

If these mines end up not producing I guess I don’t see what benefit to the general public there will be? Similarly if they do end up producing how does an increased stock price help the taxpayer/public unless it is actualized by being sold and in theory those funds benefiting the public in some way?

I guess that’s what I was also trying to convey. If we just charged fair market royalties would these companies sharpen their pencils and be more likely to do more diligence on what is beneath the surface and less likely to just start mining and taking on what is perhaps more risk/cost than reward/benefit to the general public?

I agree with most on here that have mentioned I am very pro resource extraction but at this point in my life and learning of the failures of historic government agencies and private companies to do the right things when needed and and hold those in charge accountable I really do not know if there is a path forward where that actually happens. Which then has caused me to be come across as anti resource extraction because I basically have no trust in anyone anymore lol.

 

[Bambistew]

So much to consider on both sides of this. It always seems to be either an all or nothing option.

The road corridor was specifically set aside at statehood to provide access to this mining district, with was well known about over 70 years ago. A right-of-way was established through a small part (like 6 miles, of a small peninsula of the Gates of the Arctic NP which was established at statehood, along with restricting over 60% of Alaska to all development). 60% isn't enough? There is more public land locked up in Alaska than all of the L48 combined.

The only reason Alaska was allowed to become a state, is because we argued that we could be self sustainable by utilizing our natural resources. We didn't have any other industries, or opportunities. Otherwise we'd still be a territory, and US tax payers would be paying even more for us to live here.

The Haul Road was promoted as an industrial road, and now it's one of the most popular destinations for hunters in and coming to Alaska. Populations of game have not declined due to access. You can hunt on an OTC tag, with restrictions of weapon or access to limit over harvesting game. 1000s of people use it every year.

The Pogo mine industrial road (60 miles long through the "40 Mile Country") is a closed to public use. The explosion of hunting popularity in the surrounding area is fueled by social media influencers, and word of mouth. 20 years ago 40 Mile Air couldn't sell all their hunts, today there is a waiting list and they sell out in about an hour. Game populations have not been negatively affected by the road, they have been affected by weather. Hunting pressure has never been higher in this area, much of it via air taxi and argo/atvs and its proximity to a highway and larger towns. The amount of game you see along the Pogo road is staggering because access via other means is challenging.

I'm in favor of this road, for many reasons. Once built and no long needed for industrial purposes it will provide access to country that is virtually inaccessible now unless you have a plane or boat, even then most of it is difficult to access. We have very few roads unlike the lessor 48 where people can spread out. I'm 100% in favor of limiting NR hunting pressure instead of the free-for-all we have now.

This area in question sees very little hunting pressure because it's so remote, and game populations are naturally low. THe people that do use it, figured it out yers ago and have a playground all to themselves. Its not someone is going to find an air taxi to take them there. Moose have only recently (last 50 years or so) invaded the area. Caribou have declined worldwide and isn't due to hunting, or roads.

The cost of the road won't be $2B unless they build it to highway standards, if its a single lane industrial road, it will cost far less. The engineers estimates put it around $350-400M plus maintenance costs. Much of that cost are for bridges.

The mining district has potential for about 4-5 mines, with only one being advanced, the others are in early exploration stages. One mine can not support the cost of this road, hence the reason it hasn't been built. Can't have a road without the mine(s) can't have a mine(s) without the road.

The "State" isn't paying for shit. It will be built by AIDEA which is a quasi-private entity within the state that was set up specifically to fund development projects such as this. It was originally capitalized with $160M in state funds in the late 70's. Through investments in development and returns on that development such as the Red Dog road (many failed investments too), they now manage around $1.5B. Show me a state agency that was appropriated money that turned it into 10x return... there isn't a single program in the US that has done that. Not one. There are many people in this state that get rabid about the fact that AIDEA has such a large amount of cash to use, and they think they should get their hands on it to pay for things they can't pay for, but once that money is gone its gone. They can't handle the fact that a government "agency" has money to spare vs always asking for a handout.

"Are air taxies that expensive?" Pretty easy to say when a guy can drop muli-1000s for a vacation and then compare it to people who just want to fill their freezers. Should elk hunts in montana require you to spend $3-4000 just to access your area? Yes they're expensive, and getting more so every year, to the point of unaffordable to most people who live here. I know very few people that fly out to hunt, most can't afford it. Many drop moose hunts have gone from $1500 to $10-12,000 in the last 15 years. Air taxi/transporter hunts are getting stupid expensive for a few reasons, one is a seemingly endless supply of people with deep pockets to drop on a OIL hunt. The guys that want to do it every year or ever other year are getting priced out for good. Sound familiar to what's happening in the L48?

Alaska needs jobs to survive, we can't rely on 2 months of tourism and fishing.

Alaska is pimped out for everyone but Alaskans... Tourism, mining, fishing, oil, timber. All of which are headquartered in some other state or nation and owned/traded for profit. This road is no different than any of the projects that have come before it.

Virtue signaling of preserving the earth, while utilizing every modern convenience and relying 100% on mining products is always interesting to me.

 

[SAJ-99]

But don’t the government/taxpayers only “win” if those shares are sold at a profit? Whereas a tax is a “win” regardless as long as it’s paid?

If these mines end up not producing I guess I don’t see what benefit to the general public there will be? Similarly if they do end up producing how does an increased stock price help the taxpayer/public unless it is actualized by being sold and in theory those funds benefiting the public in some way?

I guess that’s what I was also trying to convey. If we just charged fair market royalties would these companies sharpen their pencils and be more likely to do more diligence on what is beneath the surface and less likely to just start mining and taking on what is perhaps more risk/cost than reward/benefit to the general public?

I agree with most on here that have mentioned I am very pro resource extraction but at this point in my life and learning of the failures of historic government agencies and private companies to do the right things when needed and and hold those in charge accountable I really do not know if there is a path forward where that actually happens. Which then has caused me to be come across as anti resource extraction because I basically have no trust in anyone anymore lol.

Completely agree and guess that 'yes' is the answer to everything you said. There are some subtleties from that viewpoint that complicate the pay-off math. The taxpayer "wins" on the sale if the company is worth more. A tax is a "win" if the company makes money in any year (but of course the current tax accounting will make it easy for these companies to have huge tax-loss carry forwards that will reduce taxes for a loooong time). A royalty is a "win" once something is extracted, regardless of how bad the company might be managed. From the individual American's point of view, take the fair-market royalty for quickest and most reliable payoff and leave the upside risk to those willing/able to take it? But if that means it can't be extracted profitably, then it won't be extracted.

The need for these resources is huge, but that is dwarfed by the desire of the average American to not want to pay the true price for anything. The answer has always been "kick the can". Eventually we end up with huge Superfund sites like Anaconda and smaller problems like Colstrip toxic ash. Will probably need higher reclamation bond amounts, but that will make the projects less profitable.

Eventually there may be easier/better ways to get some of these minerals. If that happens, pretty easy to see that a lot of the holes in the ground will just be abandoned.

Researchers Explore ‘Biomining’ Seaweed for Critical Minerals

Seaweed could be a new source of critical minerals for electronics, vehicles, and buildings.

www.pnnl.gov

 

[cgasner1]

So much to consider on both sides of this. It always seems to be either an all or nothing option.

The road corridor was specifically set aside at statehood to provide access to this mining district, with was well known about over 70 years ago. A right-of-way was established through a small part (like 6 miles, of a small peninsula of the Gates of the Arctic NP which was established at statehood, along with restricting over 60% of Alaska to all development). 60% isn't enough? There is more public land locked up in Alaska than all of the L48 combined.

The only reason Alaska was allowed to become a state, is because we argued that we could be self sustainable by utilizing our natural resources. We didn't have any other industries, or opportunities. Otherwise we'd still be a territory, and US tax payers would be paying even more for us to live here.

The Haul Road was promoted as an industrial road, and now it's one of the most popular destinations for hunters in and coming to Alaska. Populations of game have not declined due to access. You can hunt on an OTC tag, with restrictions of weapon or access to limit over harvesting game. 1000s of people use it every year.

The Pogo mine industrial road (60 miles long through the "40 Mile Country") is a closed to public use. The explosion of hunting popularity in the surrounding area is fueled by social media influencers, and word of mouth. 20 years ago 40 Mile Air couldn't sell all their hunts, today there is a waiting list and they sell out in about an hour. Game populations have not been negatively affected by the road, they have been affected by weather. Hunting pressure has never been higher in this area, much of it via air taxi and argo/atvs and its proximity to a highway and larger towns. The amount of game you see along the Pogo road is staggering because access via other means is challenging.

I'm in favor of this road, for many reasons. Once built and no long needed for industrial purposes it will provide access to country that is virtually inaccessible now unless you have a plane or boat, even then most of it is difficult to access. We have very few roads unlike the lessor 48 where people can spread out. I'm 100% in favor of limiting NR hunting pressure instead of the free-for-all we have now.

This area in question sees very little hunting pressure because it's so remote, and game populations are naturally low. THe people that do use it, figured it out yers ago and have a playground all to themselves. Its not someone is going to find an air taxi to take them there. Moose have only recently (last 50 years or so) invaded the area. Caribou have declined worldwide and isn't due to hunting, or roads.

The cost of the road won't be $2B unless they build it to highway standards, if its a single lane industrial road, it will cost far less. The engineers estimates put it around $350-400M plus maintenance costs. Much of that cost are for bridges.

The mining district has potential for about 4-5 mines, with only one being advanced, the others are in early exploration stages. One mine can not support the cost of this road, hence the reason it hasn't been built. Can't have a road without the mine(s) can't have a mine(s) without the road.

The "State" isn't paying for shit. It will be built by AIDEA which is a quasi-private entity within the state that was set up specifically to fund development projects such as this. It was originally capitalized with $160M in state funds in the late 70's. Through investments in development and returns on that development such as the Red Dog road (many failed investments too), they now manage around $1.5B. Show me a state agency that was appropriated money that turned it into 10x return... there isn't a single program in the US that has done that. Not one. There are many people in this state that get rabid about the fact that AIDEA has such a large amount of cash to use, and they think they should get their hands on it to pay for things they can't pay for, but once that money is gone its gone. They can't handle the fact that a government "agency" has money to spare vs always asking for a handout.

"Are air taxies that expensive?" Pretty easy to say when a guy can drop muli-1000s for a vacation and then compare it to people who just want to fill their freezers. Should elk hunts in montana require you to spend $3-4000 just to access your area? Yes they're expensive, and getting more so every year, to the point of unaffordable to most people who live here. I know very few people that fly out to hunt, most can't afford it. Many drop moose hunts have gone from $1500 to $10-12,000 in the last 15 years. Air taxi/transporter hunts are getting stupid expensive for a few reasons, one is a seemingly endless supply of people with deep pockets to drop on a OIL hunt. The guys that want to do it every year or ever other year are getting priced out for good. Sound familiar to what's happening in the L48?

Alaska needs jobs to survive, we can't rely on 2 months of tourism and fishing.

Alaska is pimped out for everyone but Alaskans... Tourism, mining, fishing, oil, timber. All of which are headquartered in some other state or nation and owned/traded for profit. This road is no different than any of the projects that have come before it.

Virtue signaling of preserving the earth, while utilizing every modern convenience and relying 100% on mining products is always interesting to me.

Phenomenal response thank you

 

[Gulf of America]

So much to consider on both sides of this. It always seems to be either an all or nothing option.

The road corridor was specifically set aside at statehood to provide access to this mining district, with was well known about over 70 years ago. A right-of-way was established through a small part (like 6 miles, of a small peninsula of the Gates of the Arctic NP which was established at statehood, along with restricting over 60% of Alaska to all development). 60% isn't enough? There is more public land locked up in Alaska than all of the L48 combined.

The only reason Alaska was allowed to become a state, is because we argued that we could be self sustainable by utilizing our natural resources. We didn't have any other industries, or opportunities. Otherwise we'd still be a territory, and US tax payers would be paying even more for us to live here.

The Haul Road was promoted as an industrial road, and now it's one of the most popular destinations for hunters in and coming to Alaska. Populations of game have not declined due to access. You can hunt on an OTC tag, with restrictions of weapon or access to limit over harvesting game. 1000s of people use it every year.

The Pogo mine industrial road (60 miles long through the "40 Mile Country") is a closed to public use. The explosion of hunting popularity in the surrounding area is fueled by social media influencers, and word of mouth. 20 years ago 40 Mile Air couldn't sell all their hunts, today there is a waiting list and they sell out in about an hour. Game populations have not been negatively affected by the road, they have been affected by weather. Hunting pressure has never been higher in this area, much of it via air taxi and argo/atvs and its proximity to a highway and larger towns. The amount of game you see along the Pogo road is staggering because access via other means is challenging.

I'm in favor of this road, for many reasons. Once built and no long needed for industrial purposes it will provide access to country that is virtually inaccessible now unless you have a plane or boat, even then most of it is difficult to access. We have very few roads unlike the lessor 48 where people can spread out. I'm 100% in favor of limiting NR hunting pressure instead of the free-for-all we have now.

This area in question sees very little hunting pressure because it's so remote, and game populations are naturally low. THe people that do use it, figured it out yers ago and have a playground all to themselves. Its not someone is going to find an air taxi to take them there. Moose have only recently (last 50 years or so) invaded the area. Caribou have declined worldwide and isn't due to hunting, or roads.

The cost of the road won't be $2B unless they build it to highway standards, if its a single lane industrial road, it will cost far less. The engineers estimates put it around $350-400M plus maintenance costs. Much of that cost are for bridges.

The mining district has potential for about 4-5 mines, with only one being advanced, the others are in early exploration stages. One mine can not support the cost of this road, hence the reason it hasn't been built. Can't have a road without the mine(s) can't have a mine(s) without the road.

The "State" isn't paying for shit. It will be built by AIDEA which is a quasi-private entity within the state that was set up specifically to fund development projects such as this. It was originally capitalized with $160M in state funds in the late 70's. Through investments in development and returns on that development such as the Red Dog road (many failed investments too), they now manage around $1.5B. Show me a state agency that was appropriated money that turned it into 10x return... there isn't a single program in the US that has done that. Not one. There are many people in this state that get rabid about the fact that AIDEA has such a large amount of cash to use, and they think they should get their hands on it to pay for things they can't pay for, but once that money is gone its gone. They can't handle the fact that a government "agency" has money to spare vs always asking for a handout.

"Are air taxies that expensive?" Pretty easy to say when a guy can drop muli-1000s for a vacation and then compare it to people who just want to fill their freezers. Should elk hunts in montana require you to spend $3-4000 just to access your area? Yes they're expensive, and getting more so every year, to the point of unaffordable to most people who live here. I know very few people that fly out to hunt, most can't afford it. Many drop moose hunts have gone from $1500 to $10-12,000 in the last 15 years. Air taxi/transporter hunts are getting stupid expensive for a few reasons, one is a seemingly endless supply of people with deep pockets to drop on a OIL hunt. The guys that want to do it every year or ever other year are getting priced out for good. Sound familiar to what's happening in the L48?

Alaska needs jobs to survive, we can't rely on 2 months of tourism and fishing.

Alaska is pimped out for everyone but Alaskans... Tourism, mining, fishing, oil, timber. All of which are headquartered in some other state or nation and owned/traded for profit. This road is no different than any of the projects that have come before it.

Virtue signaling of preserving the earth, while utilizing every modern convenience and relying 100% on mining products is always interesting to me.

I'm sorry, I appreciate a local opinion chiming in, but this is just chalk full of contradictions. Also, I don't think most people flying up to Alaska (or even residents) are doing the haul road "just to fill their freezers."

 

[Mustangs Rule]

You make a good point, and I'll admit that this is a Nimby issue. As an outdoorsman who grew up near the Silver Valley (Idaho) and Butte (America), I've seen how these things often end up (as have most people on this site). Overregulation during Democratic administrations lead to making the process too expensive to be profitable, and extreme deregulation under Republican administrations lead to gross pollution and eventual Superfund sites.
I also watched Bull Trout go from abundant to endangered between my ages of 6 & 20.

I'm not anti-extraction, I'm not anti-industry, I'm not anti-exploration. I am anti-ruining the last best places we have. And I am 'pro' having an honest conversation before lobbyists buy our politicians.

You make a good point, and I'll admit that this is a Nimby issue. As an outdoorsman who grew up near the Silver Valley (Idaho) and Butte (America), I've seen how these things often end up (as have most people on this site). Overregulation during Democratic administrations lead to making the process too expensive to be profitable, and extreme deregulation under Republican administrations lead to gross pollution and eventual Superfund sites.
I also watched Bull Trout go from abundant to endangered between my ages of 6 & 20.

I'm not anti-extraction, I'm not anti-industry, I'm not anti-exploration. I am anti-ruining the last best places we have. And I am 'pro' having an honest conversation before lobbyists buy our politicians.

So one party hurts our national wealth, and the other hurts our national wealth and hurts our national health

 

[Bambistew]

I'm sorry, I appreciate a local opinion chiming in, but this is just chock full of contradictions. Also, I don't think most people flying up to Alaska (or even residents) are doing the haul road "just to fill their freezers."

What did I contradict? Didn’t take your side so I’m wrong?

Easy to take a stand when you have unlimited road access in MT and 10s of 1000s of public land accessible from said roads. Lots of whining by lessor 48ers about landlocked public lands. Pretty similar situation here just locked out by virtue of access. Many taxis and transporters lock up areas all to themselves and clients. They carve out little areas all for their own businesses and run the competition off.

More caribou are hunted from the haul road via vehicle access than all other areas of the state combined, and most people are happy to fill their tags with whatever they can get. This is without a doubt the easiest meat hunt in the state. It's a pretty cheap hunt for a resident. A couple tanks of gas and a long drive.

When unit 13 was open for caribou the hunting participation via road access was double the Haul Road, but the bou population has since crashed due to bad winters and deep snow.

It's always fun to hear tourist hunters thoughts on what hunting is like in Alaska. Many come here and donate the meat and only take the trophies home. I get it, it’s an experience, and for most it’s OIL. Happy for them, but don't pretend you're doing us a favor by coming here, or preserving your experience for anyone else but yourself. NR hunting pressure has has basically zero net benefit. we can pretend that the few jobs it creates is supporting our economy, or the tag fees really do something, it doesn’t here or any other state. The money spent on NR tags doesn't even cover the heating bill of ADFG headquarters. The amount of country ruined by influencers grows exponentially every year. How many people on this site have come to AK based on Randy’s videos and sharing? It’s a bunch, same with Renella et al.

Making Alaska their own personal playground and pimp out wildlife for profit, just another form of colonization.

 

[Gulf of America]

What did I contradict? Didn’t take your side so I’m wrong?

Easy to take a stand when you have unlimited road access in MT and 10s of 1000s of public land accessible from said roads. Lots of whining by lessor 48ers about landlocked public lands. Pretty similar situation here just locked out by virtue of access. Many taxis and transporters lock up areas all to themselves and clients. They carve out little areas all for their own businesses and run the competition off.

More caribou are hunted from the haul road via vehicle access than all other areas of the state combined, and most people are happy to fill their tags with whatever they can get. This is without a doubt the easiest meat hunt in the state. It's a pretty cheap hunt for a resident. A couple tanks of gas and a long drive.

When unit 13 was open for caribou the hunting participation via road access was double the Haul Road, but the bou population has since crashed due to bad winters and deep snow.

It's always fun to hear tourist hunters thoughts on what hunting is like in Alaska. Many come here and donate the meat and only take the trophies home. I get it, it’s an experience, and for most it’s OIL. Happy for them, but don't pretend you're doing us a favor by coming here, or preserving your experience for anyone else but yourself. NR hunting pressure has has basically zero net benefit. we can pretend that the few jobs it creates is supporting our economy, or the tag fees really do something, it doesn’t here or any other state. The money spent on NR tags doesn't even cover the heating bill of ADFG headquarters. The amount of country ruined by influencers grows exponentially every year. How many people on this site have come to AK based on Randy’s videos and sharing? It’s a bunch, same with Renella et al.

Making Alaska their own personal playground and pimp out wildlife for profit, just another form of colonization.

I bolded some of the portions of your original post that I thought contradicted each other, not contradicting my opinion. And you can ask any Montana hunter here how we feel about our abundance of roads - they sure as hell aren’t doing the animal populations any favors. Everyone is doing everything they can to get a little further away from roads but around here it’s hard to go a mile in any direction without running into another road.

You state that the Pogo Mine industrial road is closed to public use, but then talk about all the hunting opportunities along the road. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I don't see how those two work together. You also state that the game populations on the proposed road are low, so I don't see how that's going to make a big impact spreading out hunting pressure compared to areas where game populations are greater.

 

[SO7mm]

So much to consider on both sides of this. It always seems to be either an all or nothing option.

The road corridor was specifically set aside at statehood to provide access to this mining district, with was well known about over 70 years ago. A right-of-way was established through a small part (like 6 miles, of a small peninsula of the Gates of the Arctic NP which was established at statehood, along with restricting over 60% of Alaska to all development). 60% isn't enough? There is more public land locked up in Alaska than all of the L48 combined.

The only reason Alaska was allowed to become a state, is because we argued that we could be self sustainable by utilizing our natural resources. We didn't have any other industries, or opportunities. Otherwise we'd still be a territory, and US tax payers would be paying even more for us to live here.

The Haul Road was promoted as an industrial road, and now it's one of the most popular destinations for hunters in and coming to Alaska. Populations of game have not declined due to access. You can hunt on an OTC tag, with restrictions of weapon or access to limit over harvesting game. 1000s of people use it every year.

The Pogo mine industrial road (60 miles long through the "40 Mile Country") is a closed to public use. The explosion of hunting popularity in the surrounding area is fueled by social media influencers, and word of mouth. 20 years ago 40 Mile Air couldn't sell all their hunts, today there is a waiting list and they sell out in about an hour. Game populations have not been negatively affected by the road, they have been affected by weather. Hunting pressure has never been higher in this area, much of it via air taxi and argo/atvs and its proximity to a highway and larger towns. The amount of game you see along the Pogo road is staggering because access via other means is challenging.

I'm in favor of this road, for many reasons. Once built and no long needed for industrial purposes it will provide access to country that is virtually inaccessible now unless you have a plane or boat, even then most of it is difficult to access. We have very few roads unlike the lessor 48 where people can spread out. I'm 100% in favor of limiting NR hunting pressure instead of the free-for-all we have now.

This area in question sees very little hunting pressure because it's so remote, and game populations are naturally low. THe people that do use it, figured it out yers ago and have a playground all to themselves. Its not someone is going to find an air taxi to take them there. Moose have only recently (last 50 years or so) invaded the area. Caribou have declined worldwide and isn't due to hunting, or roads.

The cost of the road won't be $2B unless they build it to highway standards, if its a single lane industrial road, it will cost far less. The engineers estimates put it around $350-400M plus maintenance costs. Much of that cost are for bridges.

The mining district has potential for about 4-5 mines, with only one being advanced, the others are in early exploration stages. One mine can not support the cost of this road, hence the reason it hasn't been built. Can't have a road without the mine(s) can't have a mine(s) without the road.

The "State" isn't paying for shit. It will be built by AIDEA which is a quasi-private entity within the state that was set up specifically to fund development projects such as this. It was originally capitalized with $160M in state funds in the late 70's. Through investments in development and returns on that development such as the Red Dog road (many failed investments too), they now manage around $1.5B. Show me a state agency that was appropriated money that turned it into 10x return... there isn't a single program in the US that has done that. Not one. There are many people in this state that get rabid about the fact that AIDEA has such a large amount of cash to use, and they think they should get their hands on it to pay for things they can't pay for, but once that money is gone its gone. They can't handle the fact that a government "agency" has money to spare vs always asking for a handout.

"Are air taxies that expensive?" Pretty easy to say when a guy can drop muli-1000s for a vacation and then compare it to people who just want to fill their freezers. Should elk hunts in montana require you to spend $3-4000 just to access your area? Yes they're expensive, and getting more so every year, to the point of unaffordable to most people who live here. I know very few people that fly out to hunt, most can't afford it. Many drop moose hunts have gone from $1500 to $10-12,000 in the last 15 years. Air taxi/transporter hunts are getting stupid expensive for a few reasons, one is a seemingly endless supply of people with deep pockets to drop on a OIL hunt. The guys that want to do it every year or ever other year are getting priced out for good. Sound familiar to what's happening in the L48?

Alaska needs jobs to survive, we can't rely on 2 months of tourism and fishing.

Alaska is pimped out for everyone but Alaskans... Tourism, mining, fishing, oil, timber. All of which are headquartered in some other state or nation and owned/traded for profit. This road is no different than any of the projects that have come before it.

Virtue signaling of preserving the earth, while utilizing every modern convenience and relying 100% on mining products is always interesting to me.

This is well done. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

@Bambistew with back-to-back homeruns.