New NM Gov. asks for Game Comish resignations

[hank4elk]

NM residents don't want all the tags. We want NRs to continue to pay over 50% of the license revenues. We actually want them to give MORE NR tags by getting rid of outfitter tags and increasing the NR pool to a Western industry standard 10%.

We also don't mind LO tags...but we want science-based management rather than NM-style corruption to decide which ranches are entitled to a reasonable amount of tags.

I was no fan of the previous anti-public land anti-public access commission. But I suspect I will soon miss the devil I knew...replaced by the anti-hunting, anti-science commission which will soon ban predator hunting and trapping.


Time for serious reform to the Game Commission. NMDGF is self-funded and should be self-governed by science-based policy leaders with the sole interest of wildlife management...not political hacks! Why have a Commission if they are so uninsulated from the Gov's bidding.

This is spot on. Except resident expectations...TIC.
I'll get slammed by my outfitter guide buds, but the pool sucks & always has been a welfare program that is not needed.
90/10 has been standard in west. Dreaming of living amongst the wildlife of the west with opportunity has been on many folks minds.

All too happy to see science used finally & grading of the ranches in the E-PLUS program.
I know I will be denied on face value of acreage used in my unit & have to appeal We're the 1st one going thru the new process.1200ac is new baseline based on total acerage of public & private. But will hopefully remain in program after appeal, with a couple tags ,after spending several thousand $'s to keep providing water for wildlife recently. Water is #1 grade denier. I have lots of water.
No more 40 ac ranches getting tags is good. All the tags going to the same large landholders is wrong. They also become void of elk in daylight a lot of the time. Overgrazing is more than common here. Overhunting drives them elsewhere too...small inholdings become golden.
Will be more than happy to see ranches gates open & a map online in the UW program........I'll believe it when I see it.

Actually all hunts are opportunity hunts. Some just cherry pick their opportunity or quarry. Elk are probably on any place here,at night.....lol Gotta be quick in AM! LOL

Ranchers still have huge backing in NM. It is the West. Science should always be used, not just cherry picked.
I agree trapping & predator hunting is in crosshairs of new admin....hunting next.
The Govoner does not run the NMG&F Dept. Yet. She can only replace the head & now we find out the whole commish...?
I think it will be taken to court & find she can only replace part & for just cause.
I only hope NMG&F remains independent of the rest of the state dept's as it has.
I think all birders,hikers,dogwalkers & the like, should pay in to the $ pool that we provide for all to see & enjoy.

 

[LopeHunter]

NM delivered a strong message a few years back to NR who want to hunt on their own. You can now count sheep draw tags on one hand. No cow elk tags in draw. Can't hunt state lands. I heard you loud and clear, NM. So now some chaos is going on? Such a pity. A real pity, NM. I will have your back on this to the same extent you had my NR back.

 

[Labman]

1200ac is new baseline based on total acerage of public & private

Hank-where is the above written into the new policy?

40 acre stuff does qualify under SCR rules, heck so does 1 acre stuff if they meet the point based guidelines. With all the guys likely being given the boot in the SCR category I would think that the tags for those that qualify will be easier to obtain, assuming they hit the 7 point mark.

 

[bobbydean]

I believe the New Mexico draw is fair. NR get screwed. But the main problem is too many outfitters tags and Land owner tags. Fix that and New Mexico would be great. No points and no money buying points. It is fair. Everyone, has a chance.

That being said, I drew an elk tag once in 35-40 years. Deer is easier, but I get older I am not enjoying killing a deer. Oryx is fun, but hard. Drawn more than the odds allow me.

The new regs with having to buy a nonrefundable license to apply sucks, but comparable to other states.

Take a chance or not. Your choice.

I am at a age that my hunts in the future are few and I miss the days that I decided on Friday and hunted on Saturday. Usually fun hunts!

 

[WapitiBob]

If I was Gov for a day I'd fire every one of them too. I haven't seen a Game Commission in any state where the majority had even the slightest clue as to wth was going on in their state. First thing I'd do is make them pass a test. Then I'd make every applicant pass the same test before you get to apply.

 

[TLowell02]

What kind of questions would be on your test?

 

[hank4elk]

1200ac is new baseline based on total acerage of public & private

Hank-where is the above written into the new policy?

40 acre stuff does qualify under SCR rules, heck so does 1 acre stuff if they meet the point based guidelines. With all the guys likely being given the boot in the SCR category I would think that the tags for those that qualify will be easier to obtain, assuming they hit the 7 point mark.

That acerage was figured from total public & private & tags allotted in my unit,12. Is different in different units. Most of the smaller ranches will fall into SCR(Small Contributing Ranch) now ,after grading. Those will be UW tags distributed in a lottery. Any tags not converted in UW program will roll into the pool of SCR the next year...or so they say.
The SCR program has been plagued by the same ranches getting the tags year after year,even tho they are supposed to give everyone tags evenly. I know folks who have not gotten 1 tag in 10 years in 16a with water year round.

Our LO tags were cut big time & the draw tags tripled.
I hope to remain in program,stand alone RO.
Talked to warden today & he said most of the ranches have been graded & SW sector will be last. Notices due in April. They have been capturing calves for future data here. 50 calves with sensors & each will be replaced as needed. Nice to see some real science for a change we agreed. I did not ask about inhouse scuttlebutt....we are friends & I want that to remain so...lol

 

[BuzzH]

If I was Gov for a day I'd fire every one of them too. I haven't seen a Game Commission in any state where the majority had even the slightest clue as to wth was going on in their state. First thing I'd do is make them pass a test. Then I'd make every applicant pass the same test before you get to apply.

I agree, every deck needs a good shuffling once in a while.

 

[hank4elk]

I might have to agree as I met a few & after talking to them,I was confused.
How are they there? LOL How did they qualify?
Maybe a basic biology course or spending a couple days with some biologists...
I do think some from local BHA are on list....rumor.

 

[Labman]

It will be interesting to see how many landowner tags are in 12 this year that will go UW. Interested to see the price too if guys sell em. I was under the impression any tags not converted to licenses will go into SCR drawing the following year, not just UW. I would imagine UW tag conversion rate is high compared to RO tag conversion.

Concerning the folks you mentioned in 16a...were they skipped in the rotation? With so few tags available for the SCR draw in that unit it wouldn’t be surprising for it to take that long to go through all the ranches on the list. Under the old rules it was 1st in 1st out...now totally random, with weight given to higher ranking properties. With year round water they should do well, assuming that isn’t all they have going for them and they are totalling a 7 or more on the grading scale.

 

[hank4elk]

Unit 12 is in the Gila COER & is UW ,now. It was not before. So any ranch over a section with water,cover & feed might be UW...or 1200ac as a few of us with adding machine & half a brain...
I could not give away a tag 8 yrs ago...was offered $3k for a bull tag last year. Heard of $5-8k per bull last year for some ranches....so....it is on the radar now.
I gave 2 away & used 1 cow tag last year myself. I will probably score 7-8 on new grading scale.....giving me atta boys I scored 10....lol.
I will be glad to see bare overgrazed,say 40 ac of land with no water receive no tags. The grading system is long over due.....but,If cattle did not eat it the elk did. Most likely last night.

You are correct on the TO the SCR roll over FROM unconverted UW tags. This is on the assumption that many RO tags were not converted .
That is an untrue assumption, IMHO. I know of a handful of ranchers who do not use cow tags or a few bull tags . Most sold any they could, to anyone.
That is how they re-coop the $ lost to elk feeding, drinking & fences down. This is cattle country still.
The main purpose of program & to support elk herd growth.....so until I see a full list of tags used, which I have never seen for 12 ,with mandatory harvest reports uncomplete...the theory that they are given tags they can sell & don't sell them, is odd to say the least. So they can sit on them? To spite other NM citizens & hunters? Outfiitters signing ranches up, buying the LO tags & NOT selling them?

Totally aware of the 1st in 1st out in SCR...again, I have talked to the ranchers who have NEVER gotten tags in SCR program. The old boy school is on the radar now too.....

 

[Labman]

Black mountain is always trying to sell some tags in late Dec for 12, I don’t know if they just eat em or if they actually get em used. There are some unique ranches in some of the units out there, like the HH next door to you. They don’t use all of the 100 or so ES archery/bull muzz tags they get. If they use a single digit number I would be surprised. At $700 and change plus the associated base license G&F is losing out on big money for those unconverted licenses. A good change they made for sure.
The SCR list in 15 to the south of you used to be a full 3 pages of ranches. I wonder how trimmed down that will be this year.

 

[hank4elk]

BMO is charging way too much for hunts & one of the problem outfitters in NM, IMHO He still owes me for my tags from 4 years ago. Took the co-op I put together too. He gets most of the good ranches now because he offered so much more than the local outfitters could ever pay. He stated in public here he would put every local outfitter out of business too ,I heard. Guy is a dick. Enough ...more credit than he deserves.

The ranch list will decrease with the grading system, if it is implemented as stated in guidelines. This is a good thing, IMHO. All the programs, particularly the SCR discrepencies.

I do hope the E-Plus program stays & improves.
I hope the outfitter pool goes away.
I hope we get some decent folks on Commish. ........rumor of a BHA member & such.
I hope I draw a tag.
I hope it is not too much of a cluster in 12 this year too.....but I doubt it.

 

[Khunter]

What is wrong with UW tags? It opens up a ton of ground for the average sportsman. They are required to allow access. If they don’t they get kicked out of the program. They finally entered the modern era and maps will be available online starting this year.

I thought i heard only ranch only maps would be more readily available, which is ass backwards if true. Hope it isn’t. And only ranch only properties would now have to be posted, similarly ass backward. In the field you need to see which ranches are unit wide given many properties are not even enrollled so you cant take not being posted as ranch only as tacit permission to access the land.


I paid a pretty penny for UW ranch maps last year via open records request and it was a horrendous mess of crappy and in many cases incomplete and missing xeroxed maps. hand drawn scribbles in some cases.
Required a monumental amount of time to merge that ‘data’ onto a BLM map for reference. Which I did and ultimately that paid off during the hunt. Oh the joy of telling a lying POS landowner to go #&@* themselves when they ‘caught’ me hunting their ranch only land that was in fact unit wide. And another theft of resources resolved when I reported a landowner for letting some hunters drive in for miles while others had to walk.

But make no mistake, landowners arent getting kicked out for breaking the rules and they know it.

NM G&f needs to produce a single, navigable, map of entire unit showing UW property allwing landowners to turn in a wild array of crap posing as ‘maps’ needs to stop. Hope it does.

 

[WapitiBob]

I got maps 10+ years ago and they were a joke.

Until the person in charge of the LO program has the authority to shut down a ranch, nothing will change. And it'll only take a 15 second ass chewing from a LO to the Commission to put the brakes on that.

 

[Labman]

I thought i heard only ranch only maps would be more readily available, which is ass backwards if true. Hope it isn’t. And only ranch only properties would now have to be posted, similarly ass backward. In the field you need to see which ranches are unit wide given many properties are not even enrollled so you cant take not being posted as ranch only as tacit permission to access the land.


I paid a pretty penny for UW ranch maps last year via open records request and it was a horrendous mess of crappy and in many cases incomplete and missing xeroxed maps. hand drawn scribbles in some cases.
Required a monumental amount of time to merge that ‘data’ onto a BLM map for reference. Which I did and ultimately that paid off during the hunt. Oh the joy of telling a lying POS landowner to go #&@* themselves when they ‘caught’ me hunting their ranch only land that was in fact unit wide. And another theft of resources resolved when I reported a landowner for letting some hunters drive in for miles while others had to walk.

But make no mistake, landowners arent getting kicked out for breaking the rules and they know it.

NM G&f needs to produce a single, navigable, map of entire unit showing UW property allwing landowners to turn in a wild array of crap posing as ‘maps’ needs to stop. Hope it does.

NM has a hunter harassment law. Hit record on your phone and put it back in your pocket. Landowners who don’t comply with the rules should think twice in the modern era of technology. I think if you provide hard proof they are abusing the system there is no discussion, they are booted. Without hard proof there isn’t even an argument. Maps will be available for UW properties online this yr. I’ve done the public records request too and it is totally unnecessary in the world we live in. Looking forward to see how it comes out.

 

[bobbydean]

To the original question, the game commissioners should not resign and make the governor fire them.

 

[Rzrbck918]

Hank, earlier you mentioned 1200 acres was the baseline public and private. What does that mean? Does it refer to adjacency?

 

[hank4elk]

Hank, earlier you mentioned 1200 acres was the baseline public and private. What does that mean? Does it refer to adjacency?

This is what they came up with for acerage minimum in unit 12 now for LO program. I varies in each unit as to how much land is private & how much public(BLM/State) & that will be determining baseline as to how many tags go to LO's & into draw. 12 is about 60% private & 40 public,checkerboarded. Some huge public blocks with little to no tree cover besides PJ's & almost no water. Some good access. Tags will now be about 50/50 they say.

 

[hank4elk]

NM has a hunter harassment law. Hit record on your phone and put it back in your pocket. Landowners who don’t comply with the rules should think twice in the modern era of technology. I think if you provide hard proof they are abusing the system there is no discussion, they are booted. Without hard proof there isn’t even an argument. Maps will be available for UW properties online this yr. I’ve done the public records request too and it is totally unnecessary in the world we live in. Looking forward to see how it comes out.

I keep my GPS up & running, all maps on hand, a camera & cell, & local law & G&F on speed dial......and a pistol & 30-30....usually with me daily here. I have called many a jerks bluff.
The fact that NM was online ahead of everybody else with G&F and maps are not right there to print now is beyond stupid........any intern could have this up & running in a week. I found out they have lost most of the maps ,Sat. maps ,description of my place in my file .
My county, Catron, is only one in state without the owners data in onxmaps database too...the greater Gila. I can find out cause I know how to do property checks & survey,but it is a pain.
Add to this the fact most wardens have 2500sq mi to cover, solo.