Mule Deer Population trends

[Irrelevant]

What about the barren doe that do not reproduce ? I say take them from the population so more forage for breeding deer.

And we know it's a barren doe because...?

Fact Checker: Do Old Whitetail Does Go “Dry?”

Myths, lies and old wives’ tales loom large in the outdoor pursuits. Here at MeatEater, we’re dedicated to separating facts from bullsh*t, so we created this series to examine suspect yarns. If there’s a belief, rumor or long-held assumption you’d like us to fact check, drop us a note at...

www.themeateater.com

 

[Deleted member 18333]

And we know it's a barren doe because...?

They typically own many cats.

 

[BackofBeyond]

What about the barren doe that do not reproduce ? I say take them from the population so more forage for breeding deer.

It’s the old dominant does you want to keep around. They know all the hots spots for food, water, migration etc.

 

[88man]

Hum
CWD> no real solid solution presently or in the pipeline. All a big guess in the name of science
ELK > the 800 pound elephants in the room, the premier species ha ha> we keep bragging about how elk populations are increasing and doing so well in the non traditional areas just happen to be the areas the deer are now doing so poorly in????? (our corner crossing hotspot elk mt) in the 70's 80's very early 90's a certain ranch would kill 30 plus bucks a year over 24inches to 30 plus and maybe 2 elk. Snapshot early 2000's said ranch would kill 20 plus elk a year and on a good year 2 bucks. This story is told by ranchers all over wyoming and colorado
Predators> more coyotes/bears/cats and wolves than the 80's glory days
People> more cars killing deer, subdivisions on some of the best habitat, etc more people issues

The deer numbers of the glory days are not coming back> the people are not going away and we are not gonna manage elk down to the 1980s population numbers in the non traditional habitat units that had few if any elk 40 years ago and these units now provide some of the best trophy and opportunity elk hunts " we are proud of that management". We are years/decades away from any true solid advancements in controlling cwd. 1/2 the hunters seem to have become pro predator. More big cats/coyotes/wolves & bears mean less deer lower fawn survival numbers.

Just waiting to hear its because of global warming.

 

[FairWeather]

Just waiting to hear its because of global warming.

I’m positive it is one of the many reasons things are going as they are.

The US has been experiencing more frequent intense droughts, heatwaves, and wildfires in the summers, cold fronts, winter storms, and flooding in the winter months. These are all things that will affect herds.

 

[88man]

I’m positive it is one of the many reasons things are going as they are.

The US has been experiencing more frequent intense droughts, heatwaves, and wildfires in the summers, cold fronts, winter storms, and flooding in the winter months. These are all things that will affect herds.

tell that to the folks who lived in Wyoming in the 1880's thru 1910. Lost it all to cold and snow in the 1880's and then to heat and drought the turn of the century. People have less tolerance and need to place blame on mother nature and gods work today. Early 1960's 40 plus days consecutive above 90 degrees and a alltime high of 116 degrees in basin wyoming. I think there are reports of it being above 100 degrees 10 days in a row at the turn of the century in eastern wyoming. Just think if that happened today.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I flat don’t see how folks can discount climate change as a factor in mule deer trends.

If nothing else, the fire cycle frequency and vast expanses of cheat grass across much of the west has to factor into the equation.

 

[MtnElk]

I flat don’t see how folks can discount climate change as a factor in mule deer trends.

If nothing else, the fire cycle frequency and vast expanses of cheat grass across much of the west has to factor into the equation.

Because climate change was invented by the George Soros and the Illuminati, man

 

[rwc101]

 

[Irrelevant]

I flat don’t see how folks can discount climate change as a factor in mule deer trends.

If nothing else, the fire cycle frequency and vast expanses of cheat grass across much of the west has to factor into the equation.

Wait... I've gained 16 days? When can I use them?

 

[BackofBeyond]

Wait... I've gained 16 days? When can I use them?

Call your boss and put in for that PTO right away! Your WY tag just got WAY better!

 

[88man]

I flat don’t see how folks can discount climate change as a factor in mule deer trends.

If nothing else, the fire cycle frequency and vast expanses of cheat grass across much of the west has to factor into the equation.

Agree cheat grass is bad news. However its a naturalized invader from Asia?

 

[rwc101]

Call your boss and put in for that PTO right away! Your WY tag just got WAY better!

16 Washington days is only equal to 10 Wyoming days, per the map. Empirically proving Wyoming > Washington.

 

[Irrelevant]

Call your boss and put in for that PTO right away! Your WY tag just got WAY better!

Funny story, I just found out that I'll be getting 5 bonus days of PTO the day I take off for WY as part of some new gimmick strategy to keep staff around by celebrating and rewarding their work milestones. I was totally against the plan (as it's going to be a negative to my bonus and stock payout) but I think I'll start my push back after I use my time.

 

[brockel]

Hum
CWD> no real solid solution presently or in the pipeline. All a big guess in the name of science
ELK > the 800 pound elephants in the room, the premier species ha ha> we keep bragging about how elk populations are increasing and doing so well in the non traditional areas just happen to be the areas the deer are now doing so poorly in????? (our corner crossing hotspot elk mt) in the 70's 80's very early 90's a certain ranch would kill 30 plus bucks a year over 24inches to 30 plus and maybe 2 elk. Snapshot early 2000's said ranch would kill 20 plus elk a year and on a good year 2 bucks. This story is told by ranchers all over wyoming and colorado
Predators> more coyotes/bears/cats and wolves than the 80's glory days
People> more cars killing deer, subdivisions on some of the best habitat, etc more people issues

The deer numbers of the glory days are not coming back> the people are not going away and we are not gonna manage elk down to the 1980s population numbers in the non traditional habitat units that had few if any elk 40 years ago and these units now provide some of the best trophy and opportunity elk hunts " we are proud of that management". We are years/decades away from any true solid advancements in controlling cwd. 1/2 the hunters seem to have become pro predator. More big cats/coyotes/wolves & bears mean less deer lower fawn survival numbers.

Just waiting to hear its because of global warming.

For my little spot in Montana our human population is declining, the land that most mule deer frequent hasn’t went through much changing in the last 30 years, there is more elk than then but they are in isolated pockets not across the entire mule deer habitat. Yet our mule deer numbers are still lower than in the past. Only constant has been fwp 3+ month long season with otc tags,a generous amount of mule deer doe tags and more hunters heading this direction

 

[DFS]

Unfortunately I was just told that the numbers in this part of Montana are great and they speak for themselves. No reason to change anything when the counts are so good. Exactly opposite from what I’ve seen, but that’s all anecdotal.

 

[brockel]

Unfortunately I was just told that the numbers in this part of Montana are great and they speak for themselves. No reason to change anything when the counts are so good. Exactly opposite from what I’ve seen, but that’s all anecdotal.

#lacethemuptighter

 

[DFS]

I would go as far as to say I see 1/10 of the deer I used to maybe less. I felt bad for the wildlife managers and biologists getting rolled on elk management. But if they are that out to lunch then goodbye, find another job. They literally said we are hitting it out of the park with mule deer management.

 

[SAJ-99]

Just to see if I’m following this thread correctly, are Montana elk getting blamed for mule deer declines now too?

 

[Mrc]

A few years back I read an article about Boone and Crocket whitetail. States bordering major river systems were the biggest producers. But not all states.Game management made the difference. Ohio and West Virginia border the Ohio River. Ohio produces way more quality bucks right across the river. Ohio has good game management.Short shotgun only season after the rut. West Virginia three week rifle season starting mid November. Iowa and Missouri same with Iowa killing way more big bucks.
Are western states all managing the same? I hunted Colorado unit 55 third season this year. Between 2nd,3rd,and 4th season someone was after those bucks most of November.Plus massive amounts of oct elk hunters. How about a ten day season the last ten days of Oct. for the same amount of hunters combined.Eliminate the otc elk hunters for that period. Can you name the game management of any western state that the others should copy?