RobG
Well-known member
3+ hours later and still not off 313....
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:W::W::W::W:
MT Shoulder Season Public Comment
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Nameless Range
Well-known member
katqanna
Well-known member
I had to leave before they got back to elk shoulder season, Kalispell deer archery discussion was still going on, it would be getting dark soon and I was walking home. The whole meeting was frustrating.
Kinkies request for cow tags in 313 because of brucellosis was utter bullsh*t. There has not even been cattle brucellosis in that HD and the cattle brucellosis north of that is from cattle transmission. Clearly this is landowner/outfitter driven.
Kinkies request for cow tags in 313 because of brucellosis was utter bullsh*t. There has not even been cattle brucellosis in that HD and the cattle brucellosis north of that is from cattle transmission. Clearly this is landowner/outfitter driven.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
For sure and for certain. Luckily I had grandpa duties and quit listening at 1 PM. Conversation with my first grade granddaughter made much more sense than the rhetoric and seemingly forgone decisions of that commission meeting.
I'll send one too. Overdue anyway from his time in the Root. Wish I could have listened, but I'm getting the idea of what happened. mtmuley
Gerald Martin
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2009
- Messages
- 8,360
When I quit listening I was under the impression they were going to adopt a general season that was three weeks long instead of five. Brow-tine bull only with 30 cow permits and 30 youth only cow permits.
I think they are doing away with the unlimited permits since they deduced it actually drew more attention and focus to the unit instead of limiting the amount of people. Sounds like more people hunted when they went to unlimited that what did when it was general.
I heard 350 bulls killed in 313 in 2014 and over 400 in 2015. No wonder the number of bulls after the season is 1.8 per 100 cows.
RobG
Well-known member
I think the main thing was making the last two weeks of the season permit only, with 50 permits issued. This would protect the bulls migrating out of the park, unless we have an early winter, but that never happens
. They also expanded the zone they could close off. Not sure what they settled on with the cow and youth permits. By the time they got to the stuff I wanted to hear I had to help my son with his homework, but I did hear 4-500 elk harvest in this year's shoulder hunt. I'm not sure how many they historically got with their game damage hunts.
Drake4
Well-known member
I think the main thing was making the last two weeks of the season permit only, with 50 permits issued. This would protect the bulls migrating out of the park, unless we have an early winter, but that never happens
Protect the bulls migrating out of the Park?? Those bulls got hammered this year during the 2nd and 3rd week of rifle season. Now every general elk license in the state is going to be legal to hunt there...going to be a total slaughter on bulls again. All it's going to do to the dumbass outfitter is make him cram even more hunters into the first 3 weeks of the season. I bet his hunter numbers don't decrease at all. If their goal was to protect mature bulls, then this stupid idea is a total fail. I predict numbers will be even worse next year with this dumb change.
Chucknduck
Member
If the elk start migrating early like this year they should just shut it down.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
However, it will likely be too late to reduce the mature bull harvest. It's amazing how fast the word gets out once the elk head north in any significant numbers.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
The outfitters would scream bloody murder then. They book clients around a year in advance. They would call in their legislative buddies for more help then.
I'll give Scott Boulanger credit here. He outfitted out of the West Fork of the Root, and called for a Elk hunting shut down when we went through this. We are still at a min. limited draw to bring the elk back there.
Chucknduck
Member
Wildlife commission approves shoulder seasons despite concerns
http://billingsgazette.com/news/sta...cle_9cc8cb88-3905-58c4-a804-a827a48d84b9.html
Done deal. Pretty bad when the commission is against it but forced by bad legislation to approve these hunts. We really need to do something about elk objective numbers.
http://billingsgazette.com/news/sta...cle_9cc8cb88-3905-58c4-a804-a827a48d84b9.html
Done deal. Pretty bad when the commission is against it but forced by bad legislation to approve these hunts. We really need to do something about elk objective numbers.
RobG
Well-known member
I agree. This was definitely a concession to them and the local people. It needs to get worse before it will get better, and then they will blame the wolves anyway. The bios didn't think the herd was in danger, the loss would be the quality of the bulls.The outfitters would scream bloody murder then. They book clients around a year in advance. They would call in their legislative buddies for more help then.
Note, this is just the impression I got listening to the meeting as I don't know the area well. I went down there to hunt once and decided "them's not my people."
thecrittergitter
Well-known member
You can thank the outfitter for that. Look at his website how he boasts about the thousands of Bulls he guides his clients to.........
I know the FWP proposed this 50 bulls only the last part of season thinking that is when the slaughter usually happens........however, Drake is exactly right, this past year when our weather hit hard first part of season, I just hung my head and said, "well, there goes the rest of the gardiner elk herd". Bulls were dropping like flies from day 1 of rifle.......
Guaranteed the stupid ass outfitter is the one that they are trying to cater to here......plus of course the few guys that have the mentality that buzz said, can't think past the season right in front of them.
FWP needs to realize, their responsibility is NOT to the outfitters in this state. It is to the wildlife. Decisions need to start coming from biology, not politics. Part of running a business that is based on a public resource, is understanding the risk that you may not be in business if you manage it selfishly.........
I also agree with Drake on another comment..............we have both spent enough time around the outfitter there to know, it is all about numbers. He is going to cram just as many people in that first three weeks as possible. He and I had one morning hunt there where we passed 9 of his trucks and trailers hauling guys out ready to put the slaughter on. Guaranteed, that now will be 15 trucks hauling guys and horses ready to hammer every branch antlered bull that shows hair.........
Pretty bad when wolves are having less impact on elk than our FWP management.......
katqanna
Well-known member
I pointed out that the outfitters were going to the focus to the archery, knowing the first week of rifle would be hard as well.
I think Stucker was the only one advocating for the biological concerns, but none of the others would second his amendments. He asked a question about getting the check station going, but Vore didnt explain the right information. I asked Howard Burt to explain why that wouldnt work, he said he had to be asked. so on one of my public comments I asked that they ask him, Vermillion dismissed it.
The check station would have to be manned and kept open 24/7 to record what is coming out. Even though RMEF said they would help contribute, the check station would not record all the kills because the outfitters process their own hunts for their clients - before the check station.
I think Stucker was the only one advocating for the biological concerns, but none of the others would second his amendments. He asked a question about getting the check station going, but Vore didnt explain the right information. I asked Howard Burt to explain why that wouldnt work, he said he had to be asked. so on one of my public comments I asked that they ask him, Vermillion dismissed it.
The check station would have to be manned and kept open 24/7 to record what is coming out. Even though RMEF said they would help contribute, the check station would not record all the kills because the outfitters process their own hunts for their clients - before the check station.
BuzzH
Well-known member
The outfitters didn't make a concession at all.
Like Critter said, they'll just cram the same number of hunters into 3 weeks.
Its funny that in WY outfitters can run successful business's with 7-10 day general antlered elk hunting...with only a couple thousand NR general tags.
Yet, in Montana with 17,000+ NR elk tags and 5 weeks, they barely stay in business????
OK.
Like Critter said, they'll just cram the same number of hunters into 3 weeks.
Its funny that in WY outfitters can run successful business's with 7-10 day general antlered elk hunting...with only a couple thousand NR general tags.
Yet, in Montana with 17,000+ NR elk tags and 5 weeks, they barely stay in business????
OK.
