MT Legislature - Week 6

[mtmiller]

I'm thinking that if they require the antlers last there's a 100% percent chance people will go back after their loads of meat.

I can see why you guys think it's a pain in the butt but I imagine it would help deter or prevent the scum bags that leave everything because they are too lazy to return.

How about we make a law where everyone has to check there meat with the department before it is taken to their residence? Maybe we should introduce that in 2013 instead.

As was already mentioned, if I am just planning on keeping the horns/antlers, this isn't going to keep me from breaking the law.

 

[BuzzH]

Lawnboy,

That warden that spoke to your boys class is clueless and doesnt understand the law.

A friend of mine, a FS L.E.O., was cited while hunting elk in the bighole doing exactly what that warden recommended.

He packed a quarter of a cow to his truck, threw the hind quarter in the truck and went to find his brother and dad to help with the rest. The warden stopped him, looked at the quarter and asked where the tag was. He said, with the other 3 quarters, got a ticket for transporting game without a permit. The warden told him he would have been fine if he would have left the quarter he packed laying in the brush, but once you put it in your vehicle, its then being transported and MUST have a tag.

Cost him IIRC, $135...didnt bother to fight it as the cost of going to court, a day off work, would have been more.

What these new laws are doing is creating more heart-ache for everyone and doing something that I see all the time...making easy $hit difficult.

 

[MHMT]

Re:Warden rolls up to find rack, back straps, and loins. Hunters response, ya, were going to hike back in for the rest in a bit... Warden looks on and knows, Bullshit.
With this new measure, Warden rolls up... same situation... presto - no dicking around with word games - they are fined, etc.

My scenario: I kill something, but my pack is full, no room for meat, but I can throw antlers over my shoulders on the first load out, come back with an empty pack to pack out the rest. this way I don't have an awkward and heavy load at the same time, and probably saves a little time packing. The game warden can accompany me back to the kill site if he wants.

 

[Point Creep]

Anybody who supports this one clearly has not crated much stuff out of the hills. If somebody's going to whack off an animals head and leave a bunch of meat in the hills, this isn't going to change those people or how they operate. Before you know it, we'll be required to pack out all the bones so we can throw them in our dumpster when we get home.

 

[Sytes]

My scenario: I kill something, but my pack is full, no room for meat, but I can throw antlers over my shoulders on the first load out, come back with an empty pack to pack out the rest. this way I don't have an awkward and heavy load at the same time, and probably saves a little time packing. The game warden can accompany me back to the kill site if he wants.

Ya, I agree with the basis for packing as Jones mentioned earlier. I understand such convenience...
However, based on the limited number of Wardens... I would want to get the most enforcement - effective management from them as possible... The hours used to hike in and verify 1 person's game is a poor time managed use of such resources.
The idea of packing in one fashion on the first, would it not be just as easy to make that the last pack? Same pack of items... same rack hanging over... etc. I understand the simple pack light weight to make one trip then the larger frame pack... I assume that is the advantage...

The more camps, parties wardens can visit the more opportunity to smack some of these punks that are violating the law... not to take nature walks to verify what could easily be verified with a rack packed out last...

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[Drake4]

The more camps, parties wardens can visit the more opportunity to smack some of these punks that are violating the law... not to take nature walks to verify what could easily be verified with a rack packed out last...

People who are whacking off horns and leaving meat to rot aren't hanging out in camps. Like it has been said numerous times before...this stupid bill won't stop one person from wasting meat. If someone wants to shoot a 6 point bull only for the horns, they won't pack out 1 ounce of meat anyways.

 

[MHMT]

The idea of packing in one fashion on the first, would it not be just as easy to make that the last pack? Same pack of items... same rack hanging over... etc.

I use the same pack for hunting and packing, so my pack is full of stuff, no room for meat. so I have to go back to my truck to unload it before packing the meat out, but I would be able to carry the rack out on the first load. This way, if I was carrying large awkward antlers I wouldn't have to carry it while trying to carry a heavy load of meat, otherwise I would have to make an extra trip to take the rack out last.

I suppose I could leave all of my stuff at the kill site, but I don't really want to leave my coat, gps, gun, sleeping bag and such out in the elements.

Not really a big deal, but I feel like it wouldn't really be doing much good, just making things a little more inconvenient.

 

[tjones]

I have made a lot of trips out with a head and antlers over the shoulder, with rifle and no pack. Then back with with proper gear and help. Come out after shooting it empty handed and you will have a hard time finding help the next time.

 

[Lawnboy]

Lawnboy,

That warden that spoke to your boys class is clueless and doesnt understand the law.

A friend of mine, a FS L.E.O., was cited while hunting elk in the bighole doing exactly what that warden recommended.

He packed a quarter of a cow to his truck, threw the hind quarter in the truck and went to find his brother and dad to help with the rest. The warden stopped him, looked at the quarter and asked where the tag was. He said, with the other 3 quarters, got a ticket for transporting game without a permit. The warden told him he would have been fine if he would have left the quarter he packed laying in the brush, but once you put it in your vehicle, its then being transported and MUST have a tag.

Cost him IIRC, $135...didnt bother to fight it as the cost of going to court, a day off work, would have been more.

What these new laws are doing is creating more heart-ache for everyone and doing something that I see all the time...making easy $hit difficult.

I thought the same thing when he told us that. Yeah right you'd be fine with my truck half full of meat and no tag I didn't argue just thought I'd let you know what they said.
I agree with Miller the poachers are going to do whatever they want to anyway. I would think that the smart ones aren't doing this kind of stuff in the daylight either(after hours).

Greenhorn that's exactly what my dad had to do with his moose in Alaska. Haul the quarters with the bones in them. Sucked royally. I'm thinking Alaska went this route because of the all the horn hunters leaving the meat. Not sure though.

 

[Point Creep]

Sytes, how many bull elk with antlers have you backpacked out of the mtns?

 

[Sytes]

So it seems to boil down to the convenience factor as the adverse position towards this proposed modification to a current regulation.
Understandable. I typically have a shoulder hip pack on for my hunts with the meat bags and p-cord inside, along with the usuals. I have packed my racks out first on some occasions and on others they came out on the sled atop a couple meat bags, or last pack out with the smaller of the meat bags...

Usually solo, I find hanging my rack off a high limb (if in griz country or any like concerns) better than leaving it in my truck to continue more trips... where my truck has more access to others than my game.

I suppose to each his or her own... For myself, when weighing occasional convenience vs the following:
1. More entry / other hunter from the start directing for packing meat out
2. More discouragement for those joes who lazily tire from 1 or 2 trips of meat packing leaving a good chunk behind because they already have their rack...
3. More potential to catch via hunter poach reported & Warden camp / party inspection those that head hunt purely...
4. Enable Wardens to more productively use their time to work investigations / inspections vs treking hour(s) each way to verify for one possible...

I am currently for HB474... Unless something aside from convenience is presented. Seems much more can be gained than lost from such a modification of a current regulation.

As it seems, the convenience factor is well supported here. Though we all have our considerations.

Ben Lamb, What is MWF's position on this one and the reasoning for the opinion?

Apologies, was away while in post mode... revised edit:

Sytes, how many bull elk with antlers have you backpacked out of the mtns?

I hate to admit it, especially when being asked by a hunter of mass amounts monster treasures...
I have solo (2) packed out.... 4 elk with racks.
Helped many friends with theirs... but, just 4 racked elk for myself.
Time to find my fire suit... I have a feeling this one is going to be a roaster... HAHA!

 

[Point Creep]

Nice sarcasm. Did the order of the pieces you brought out ever matter? I've found sometimes if I'm smart about it, I can pack out an animal in fewer trips if I do it in the right order. Sometimes I leave my rifle and other gear at the kill. I'm suprised anyone who's packed animals out in pieces finds this sensible at all. I've left meat in the hills for over a week, and suppose most think I deserve a ticket..

 

[Sytes]

Nice sarcasm. Did the order of the pieces you brought out ever matter? I've found sometimes if I'm smart about it, I can pack out an animal in fewer trips if I do it in the right order. Sometimes I leave my rifle and other gear at the kill. I'm suprised anyone who's packed animals out in pieces finds this sensible at all. I've left meat in the hills for over a week, and suppose most think I deserve a ticket..

No sarcasm intended... I know you know your stuff! Otherwise, I need to find your photo fixing pro... I just figured you were setting me up with a direct question to post a roasting response.

In response though, I try to be efficient. I have left meat as much as 2 nights with the 3rd day returning for the remainder... due to other issues resulting beyond hunting.

The specifics... I usually wear a shoulder strapped hip pack. I now carry my alaskan meat bags and p-cord, along with the usuals. I have a thin canvas tarp (emerg. cover / box hitch)that I have attached to the shoulder straps before. I don't have a fancy badlands or mystery pack with those harnesses. Though hope to for this next year. I have a large lowe alpine internal frame pack I keep at camp for return trip use along with a sled.
Order does matter - though I easily pack a good amount my first trip as I do the next set of trips... I am all open for a thread on best practices if I am fubaring myself... Never been the best Tetris player... Haha!

 

[onpoint]

This meat/antler packing legislation is ridiculous, no doubt. But am I the only one that finds it sad (ly humorous) that this dork of a bill seems to have people more upset than some potentially changing- life- as -we- know- it- in- Montana legislation. Really? Antlers and meat is a more upsetting topic than loss of stream access or all hunting licenses being taxed to fund mitigation of loss of livestock to wolves?? I hope for all of our sakes that I'm not the only one a little concerned....By the way, I do the no gut method on about everything except tasty little whitetail does that expire a couple hundred yards from my truck.

 

[exponentialpi]

HB 537 Repeal I-161

Nice to see that if you don't like how the voters vote, just introduce a law to will overturn it.

UGH!

 

[Point Creep]

onpoint, you're 100% right. As odd as many of these ideas are, it's at least clear when the outfitters want unlimited tags or ranchers want to suck money out of hunters. Some like this are more confusingly pointless.

 

[Big Fin]

After reading my emails tonight, I think I need to get back to drinking. Even in a state of extreme intoxication, I would struggle to make sense of some of these bills, who is pushing them, and why they are pushing them.

Will try to not make too long of a post tomorrow, but some of these have got to die a quick death.

And, don't forget the anti-hunters who sponsored these bills and voted for these bills, when it comes election time in 2012. Some of these guys need to be "Un-elected."

 

[onpoint]

If I read HB 362 right (as if that's possible), the nutcases could meet EVERY year....read it and weep. It's not only that we have to fight them when they meet-we also may have to fight to keep them to keep from meeting. Somebody else read that bill and tell me I can't read....please. I'm glad I never bred, forcing my offspring to endure what may be to come. I'm also glad my dog doesn't get involved in stupid people stuff....

 

[drahthaar]

HB 470. Who the heck is Christy Clark? A republican that wants to dig in hunters wallets because wolves eat cattle? We can't hunt them, so punish hunters for it! I shouldn't read this stuff before bed.

 

[cowboy]

And, don't forget the anti-hunters who sponsored these bills and voted for these bills, when it comes election time in 2012. Some of these guys need to be "Un-elected."

Any individual or organization keeping track or tally of who is really submitting all these ridiculous proposals - there are so many I can't keep track of who drank what the previous night up there in Helena. Someone in the know needs to establish a score board at the end of this session and post it for all of us. PS: Probably not a good idea to use cross hairs with their pictures like the Tea Party did.