MT: Gianforte vs Quist

[ChrisS]

Big difference between them and what the DNC has decided is a good direction for their dying party.

Well, to be fair, that dying party has won a plurality of votes for president in six out of the last seven elections. Their biggest problem is that they're hamstrung by an archaic election system where states with smaller populations have disproportionately more legislative power. The 2nd biggest obstacle is that the DNC hasn't cribbed from the GOP playbook and targeted local state legislative elections first and foremost in a bottom-up method.

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz,

For him it would be like you picking up a $50 bar tab, no stretch at all. He has plenty in his checking account. It's time to move on period, I am tired of the ads and we still ended up with a choice of either a Shit sandwich or shit taco, on the inside they are both the same.

I realize that, he'll make the reporter a good enough offer so nothing goes to court.

I would find it way more satisfying to hire an MMA fighter to grab that New Jersey jack wagon by the scruff of the neck, body slam him, and try to punch a hole in his liver...but not many agree with my brand of justice on how to deal with a bully.

So, we settle for scribbling checks.

 

[2ski]

Quist was all hat and no cattle. Plus he was truth challenged. Gianforte's name was out there for nearly two years and Quist threw his hat in the ring late in the game. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

It an election of one seat in the House, it changes nothing on either side of aisle and wouldn't have changed anything if Quist won. As for Tester's race in 2018, I wouldn't be so fast to write off his chances of winning that race depending on which Republican runs against him. There will be many, many more days and months to watch Trump step on his dick and by Nov. of 2018 the buyers remorse most likely will have deepened. Also Zinke moving up to be Sec. of Interior removed one of the biggest threats to Tester.



Nemont

I agree. We have a history of keeping incumbents. Sure, if a D and R are running for a vacated seat, I would normally give the advantage to the R, but now that a D is there, I see it staying Tester. How many terms was Baucus elected for? We realize its beneficial to us to have someone there a few terms so they can work their way up in seniority, getting better committee assignments and its more advantageous for MT. What was Baucus he last term at one point? Chair of the most or 2nd most powerful committee in DC? I don't remember what the specific one was. Energy maybe?

 

[MTGomer]

Well, to be fair, that dying party has won a plurality of votes for president in six out of the last seven elections. Their biggest problem is that they're hamstrung by an archaic election system where states with smaller populations have disproportionately more legislative power. The 2nd biggest obstacle is that the DNC hasn't cribbed from the GOP playbook and targeted local state legislative elections first and foremost in a bottom-up method.

They are hamstrung by believing they can win with the loud but tiny minority of social justice warrioring, angry feminist middle aged cat ladies that rant on vlogs about veganism, mansplaining, white privilege, cultural appropriation and pretending there's more than two genders while pretending to care about science.
The 'archaic' founding principles of our republic are the least of their worries.
They laughed Jim Webb, Who would have made the most qualified president since Eisenhower, right out of the primary so early you might not even know who he is

More Webb, Schweitzer, Tester, Heinrich etc. less Pelosi, Maxine Waters, Lena Dunham, Chuck schumer etc.

 

[katqanna]

YOU have the power to do that to...hold the SOB's responsible in the primaries by running people that DO share you values, that do support the things that are important to you, and represent your State! Its up to YOU!

Its not my fault you allowed the R's and D's to pick two total dog-chit candidates...YOU LET THEM, and DONT DEMAND BETTER.

You are correct Buzz. I was upset with the Democratic primary process, hearing rumors of not running Curtiss, who had been properly vetted before, had name recognition and governmental experience without the reputation of corruption because she was a woman, and because Schweitzer promoted Quist.

I looked into who voted for the primary candidates, because it wasn't the people, it was county democratic party representatives and county elected legislators, because of the special election. I know two of those county democratic reps - from different counties. From the rural county, I also heard from others across the state who spoke with that rep, expressing their support for Curtiss, only to be dismissed and told by the rep that those in the political know wanted Quist and he was voting Quist.

From Gallatin County, the 7 votes from here mostly went to Curtiss.

Just like legislative scorecards, I wanted to point out who these county reps were. Here they are. It would be nice if we could find out who voted for who in that meeting.

When I grew up, my father had a saying, "Don't do a half assed job." Being a graphically minded person, I couldn't figure out as a very young girl, why a phrase would develop with a one cheeked person in relation to labor effort. As I got older and had ag experience, I figured it had to do with a team of asses for labor.

So here is the kicker, the Democrats have 28 counties with committees, that is literally HALF of the 56 counties in Montana.

How the hell is a state party (again, I am not partisan) supposed to function half assed?

So with one party having state and federal party planks on transferring federal public lands to the states and the other operating half assed, is it any wonder why we are having the cognitive dissonance in the this state concerning our outdoor recreation values that we are having?

 

[1_pointer]

They are hamstrung by believing they can win with the loud but tiny minority of social justice warrioring, angry feminist middle aged cat ladies that rant on vlogs about veganism, mansplaining, white privilege, cultural appropriation and pretending there's more than two genders while pretending to care about science.
The 'archaic' founding principles of our republic are the least of their worries.
They laughed Jim Webb, Who would have made the most qualified president since Eisenhower, right out of the primary so early you might not even know who he is

More Webb, Schweitzer, Tester, Heinrich etc. less Pelosi, Maxine Waters, Lena Dunham, Chuck schumer etc.

Thank you! I especially agree with the pointing out that the "archaic problems" really aren't.

 

[Sytes]

This is another classic problem...blame the other side for not picking a better candidate that represents your values. I'm sick of excuses...start making a difference.

YOU have the power to do that to...hold the SOB's responsible in the primaries by running people that DO share you values, that do support the things that are important to you, and represent your State! Its up to YOU!

Its not my fault you allowed the R's and D's to pick two total dog-chit candidates...YOU LET THEM, and DONT DEMAND BETTER.

Look in the mirror...there's the problem...and also the solution if you get with the program.

I imagine you are using "you" for the purpose of speaking specific to the Democrat and Republican constituents. I am neither. However, IF the Democrats or the Republicans seek to cater the "other" voters support of their candidate... They, or "you" Democrat/Republican constituents need to provide candidates worth two shits... <that is a 'wink, btw... not a smiley face for ya.>

 

[MTGomer]

A good example of the out of touchness I'm talking about... I just started a new job where the hourly employees are in the United Steelworkers Union. If you would have told someone during the Reagan days that in 35 years, you could walk through a parking lot full of union workers and see the campaign slogan of the Republican presidential candidate next to the local steelworkers union bumper sticker, nobody would believe you. They've lost the vote of a lot of hard working people that go to work, do real labor for a fair wage, every day, and pay 25-39.5% right off the top, don't want to be coddled and taken care of, but expect government to do its basic job. Republicans may not like their union, but they wouldn't snap their fingers and eliminate their employer and entire industry if given the chance.

On the flip side- like you see on this page- republicans have the same issue with their gun rights base favoring the lands they use guns on. But we are the minority compared to the labor movement switching sides. There are millions upon millions of voters in this country thatare both Republican and Democrat that are entirely unaware of the public lands issue, and don't even understand what a national forest is.

 

[Sytes]

Quist was all hat and no cattle. Plus he was truth challenged. Gianforte's name was out there for nearly two years and Quist threw his hat in the ring late in the game. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

It an election of one seat in the House, it changes nothing on either side of aisle and wouldn't have changed anything if Quist won. As for Tester's race in 2018, I wouldn't be so fast to write off his chances of winning that race depending on which Republican runs against him. There will be many, many more days and months to watch Trump step on his dick and by Nov. of 2018 the buyers remorse most likely will have deepened. Also Zinke moving up to be Sec. of Interior removed one of the biggest threats to Tester.

Nemont

The Quist angle, I agree. It would not have changed anything aside from one less Congressional vote in support of vacating Federal lands. vs one additional vote, Gianforte's, for such an act.

Curious on the Governor perspective - to any: Does Montana, a primarily Republican Presidential voting state, vote come a tad bit weighted for Democrat Governors due to the Farm subsidy perspective? Not saying it is the cause though it would seem this could be one of the heavier weighted points that give the Ds a bit of an edge in that race?

 

[BuzzH]

Sytes, no, I'm speaking to YOU...don't expect others to pack your water. Read Katqanna's post...twice.

Its not my place to find Montana decent candidates, its YOUR place to do so. If you aren't participating in the primaries, you have nothing to complain about regarding who the parties choose...keep voting for one of two crap candidates you let them nominate.

I used to be an "I" as well, until I realized that not voting in a primary can have dire consequences, so registered as an "R".

 

[HSi-ESi]

Does Montana, a primarily Republican Presidential voting state, vote come a tad bit weighted for Democrat Governors due to the Farm subsidy perspective? Not saying it is the cause though it would seem this could be one of the heavier weighted points that give the Ds a bit of an edge in that race?

MT Republican Governors are still trying to dig out from Judy Martz.

 

[Sytes]

I see your point, Buzz however I have a different take on it. I am in support of a 3rd party, as done in the Presidential General election. I despise the two party country we currently embrace, thus my registered 'I' status is of value... very little ~ little value though more than zero value registering as an R or D simply to resign myself to a two party country. The more the registered I's build, the more the 3rd party gains in strength. This is hampered by I's gong to the D's or R's for support or counter support.
In this case, I was not in support of the Libertarian (3rd party) due to the same reason I was not in support of Gianforte... Public Land. And again, I believe if the R's or D's want the I's vote, they need to present their position with a person that holds some reasonable value.
I expect you may disagree and believe it is better to register where you can do the most "immediate" impact and I would agree it may be a long way until a 3rd party has a fair run at it... though again, I would share, if they want I's vote for them, they should take a bit more interest in the positions taken and the person nominated to present those issues.

Edit added: Hsi-Esi... ya, that was a tough pill for R's with her plummet in ratings. Yeesh! Though there has to be more underlying reasons. heh!

 

[katqanna]

Sytes, I am fully with you on the Independent party, I am an "I". My frustrations with an Independent party in MT are even worse than my frustrations with Democrats. Some of the "I"s in MT are more fractured.

I sent a letter to the national Green Party this last election and told them that so long as they ran Stein for a presidential or vice-presidential candidate, I would not vote for them.

And I agree, so long as libertarians want to sell our federally stewarded PUBLICLY owned lands to pay off debts, I will not vote libertarian, ever.

 

[MTGomer]

Sytes, no, I'm speaking to YOU...don't expect others to pack your water. Read Katqanna's post...twice.

Its not my place to find Montana decent candidates, its YOUR place to do so. If you aren't participating in the primaries, you have nothing to complain about regarding who the parties choose...keep voting for one of two crap candidates you let them nominate.

I used to be an "I" as well, until I realized that not voting in a primary can have dire consequences, so registered as an "R".

Montana has open primaries.

 

[BuzzH]

Montana has open primaries.

Correct, and even less of an excuse to not demand better candidates.

 

[ChrisS]

They are hamstrung by believing they can win with the loud but tiny minority of social justice warrioring, angry feminist middle aged cat ladies that rant on vlogs about veganism, mansplaining, white privilege, cultural appropriation and pretending there's more than two genders while pretending to care about science.
The 'archaic' founding principles of our republic are the least of their worries.
They laughed Jim Webb, Who would have made the most qualified president since Eisenhower, right out of the primary so early you might not even know who he is

More Webb, Schweitzer, Tester, Heinrich etc. less Pelosi, Maxine Waters, Lena Dunham, Chuck schumer etc.

That's a lot of angry rage. More white men and fewer minorities, gotcha. Everyone is an common sense middle of the road American as long as the road passes directly between their feet. And I don't see how union workers voting for politicians who are anti-union make any sense at all. That's just being intellectually dishonest with themselves.

The system is archaic because 240 years ago, population differences between states weren't as vast. Fact, a voter in any mid- or western state has more clout per vote. It's not spin, it's just math. Schumer, for example, to take one of your boogymen, has one vote in the senate to represent more American citizens than WY, MT, ID, SD, ND, AK, and NE combined.. Electorally, voters from small states are overrepresented. Twice in two decades, a GOP candidate won the presidency, but lost the popular vote.

Full disclosure. I'm a US active duty military veteran with a BS in environmental science and there isn't a GOP candidate for any level of government I've come across that espouses anything resembling a coherent understanding of science.

 

[RobG]

Correct, and even less of an excuse to not demand better candidates.

Because of the special election these candidates were chosen by their party, not by primary election. At the decision time Quist seemed like the strongest candidate. He didn't turn out so great. Gianforte was a weird choice and will lose in 2018 if the Dems can produce any sort of viable candidate, which is not to suggest he is going to lose.

 

[MTGomer]

That's a lot of angry rage. More white men and fewer minorities, gotcha. Everyone is an common sense middle of the road American as long as the road passes directly between their feet. And I don't see how union workers voting for politicians who are anti-union make any sense at all. That's just being intellectually dishonest with themselves.

The system is archaic because 240 years ago, population differences between states weren't as vast. Fact, a voter in any mid- or western state has more clout per vote. It's not spin, it's just math. Schumer, for example, to take one of your boogymen, has one vote in the senate to represent more American citizens than WY, MT, ID, SD, ND, AK, and NE combined.. Electorally, voters from small states are overrepresented. Twice in two decades, a GOP candidate won the presidency, but lost the popular vote.

Full disclosure. I'm a US active duty military veteran with a BS in environmental science and there isn't a GOP candidate for any level of government I've come across that espouses anything resembling a coherent understanding of science.

Oh the type writer and musket argument.
Your use of the internet is not allowable. The first Amendment is archaic and never could have predicted such technology. Get a quill and ink to express your thoughts!

And I'm not angry and definitely not racist.


Who should union pipeline welder vote for? It's not the democrats that are owned by BNSF rail oil shipper Warren Buffet.

Who should a union coal miner vote for? It's not "put a lot of coal miners out of business" Clinton.

Who should a union worker at lumber mill vote for? It's not supporters of NAFTA and bad Canadian softwood lumber agreements.


A former Detroit auto worker?


Not everything is black and white. Just like all the people on this page that have AR-15s, own a business and are in the top tax bracket, vote D because public lands are important to them.


You're really stuck on the popular vote thing, which I'm not sure where you're going with. Our country is not and was never intended to be a pure democracy. I'm sure you know that and are fairly well versed in the constitution considering you are in the military.

 

[BigHornRam]

Oh the type writer and musket argument.
Your use of the internet is not allowable. The first Amendment is archaic and never could have predicted such technology. Get a quill and ink to express your thoughts!

And I'm not angry and definitely not racist.


Who should union pipeline welder vote for? It's not the democrats that are owned by BNSF rail oil shipper Warren Buffet.

Who should a union coal miner vote for? It's not "put a lot of coal miners out of business" Clinton.

Who should a union worker at lumber mill vote for? It's not supporters of NAFTA and bad Canadian softwood lumber agreements.


A former Detroit auto worker?


Not everything is black and white. Just like all the people on this page that have AR-15s, own a business and are in the top tax bracket, vote D because public lands are important to them.

Damn Gomer! For a young dude you have a pretty good take on how the political world spins.

 

[BigHornRam]

Because of the special election these candidates were chosen by their party, not by primary election. At the decision time Quist seemed like the strongest candidate. He didn't turn out so great. Gianforte was a weird choice and will lose in 2018 if the Dems can produce any sort of viable candidate, which is not to suggest he is going to lose.

I told you from the get go Quist was a bad choice, Rob. You didn't listen.