MT Civil Trespass Bill

[earthwalker]

earthwalker, you're the reason the rest of us have to put up with trespiss laws.

If only we could forgive those who trespiss against us and be forgiven for our trespisses.

 

[Dinkshooter]

Yep, trespassing and pissing on private property comes at a cost. In 1986, I was caught taking a leak in the alley behind the Bison Bar in Miles City and it wound up costing me $575. -According to the officers' testimony, there was a chase involved and a struggle ensued, but to this day, I don't recall much about the event.

Post of the year already in March? Even beat Greenhorn's.

 

[1_pointer]

Post of the year already in March? Even beat Greenhorn's.

I concur! Great story. Heck, just being able to retell that story for a lifetime would probably be worth $575 to me...

 

[howler]

Yep, trespassing and pissing on private property comes at a cost. In 1986, I was caught taking a leak in the alley behind the Bison Bar in Miles City and it wound up costing me $575. -According to the officers' testimony, there was a chase involved and a struggle ensued, but to this day, I don't recall much about the event.

Yep I can relate to this, post of the year so far anyway

 

[JMG]

earthwalk, your lucky you didn't end up with a Fish & Game violation for trolling with that grub-worm for some rancher's/outfitter's daughter. :hump:

 

[noharleyyet]

Yep, trespassing and pissing on private property comes at a cost. In 1986, I was caught taking a leak in the alley behind the Bison Bar in Miles City and it wound up costing me $575. -According to the officers' testimony, there was a chase involved and a struggle ensued, but to this day, I don't recall much about the event.

Post often......

 

[RobG]

The bill SB299 (Montana) will be heard tomorrow in House Agriculture. Please comment here: http://leg.mt.gov/css/Sessions/63rd/legwebmessage.asp

I listed to the hearing in the Senate Judiciary committee. They were focused on oil-workers. etc trespassing on their land. No mention of fisherman, hunters, or little kids playing. There were ZERO, that is none, zippo, people testifying against this bill.

I can't go tomorrow, is anyone going to speak in front of the committee? Another poor showing and this one will zip on through. $1500 will buy a lot of trail cams and many lands, especially along streambanks, are difficult to determine if they are posted or not.

 

[earthwalker]

The bill SB299 (Montana) will be heard tomorrow in House Agriculture. Please comment here: http://leg.mt.gov/css/Sessions/63rd/legwebmessage.asp

I listed to the hearing in the Senate Judiciary committee. They were focused on oil-workers. etc trespassing on their land. No mention of fisherman, hunters, or little kids playing. There were ZERO, that is none, zippo, people testifying against this bill.

I can't go tomorrow, is anyone going to speak in front of the committee? Another poor showing and this one will zip on through. $1500 will buy a lot of trail cams and many lands, especially along streambanks, are difficult to determine if they are posted or not.

SB 299 is, likely, to pass. If you're law abiding, you have nothing to worry about. If you're not, watch for trail cams.
I watched the video. A committee member brought up the corner crossing issue and how it would relate to SB 299. There was an indication of opposition in his questioning and general demeanor. Another committee member expressed support and shared personal anecdotes about being unable to recover damages to property because current trespass issues are a low priority amongst law enforcement agencies.

 

[RobG]

SB 299 is, likely, to pass. If you're law abiding, you have nothing to worry about. If you're not, watch for trail cams.
I watched the video. A committee member brought up the corner crossing issue and how it would relate to SB 299. There was an indication of opposition in his questioning and general demeanor. Another committee member expressed support and shared personal anecdotes about being unable to recover damages to property because current trespass issues are a low priority amongst law enforcement agencies.

Sorry, I disagree there. If you are law abiding you still have to fear paying a huge price for a tiny mistake, perhaps even by your kids. $1500 for a tiny mistake is insane, especially considering the lack of proof required.

The other committee member (Fielder, now there is an interesting person:http://mtcowgirl.com/2012/10/10/gop-candidate-has-militia-ties/) complained about a utility worker who came on her property to work on a power line and damaged a tree. Her story is bogus - her lack of compensation for the damage had nothing to do with the current trespass law - she knew who the person was but failed to bring the person to court to collect damages.

 

[RobG]

How would a landowner falsely entrap an individual hunting/fishing/trapping on private property? The law is clear that permission is required to hunt/fish/trap on private property, posted or not.

Actually you can fish or hike if it isn't posted. (And up until a few years ago you could bird hunt if it wasn't posted but the Legislature changed that.) This creates a bit of a problem for fisherman as it can be pretty easy to miss a sign.

 

[earthwalker]

Sorry, I disagree there. If you are law abiding you still have to fear paying a huge price for a tiny mistake, perhaps even by your kids. $1500 for a tiny mistake is insane, especially considering the lack of proof required.

The other committee member (Fielder, now there is an interesting person:http://mtcowgirl.com/2012/10/10/gop-candidate-has-militia-ties/) complained about a utility worker who came on her property to work on a power line and damaged a tree. Her story is bogus - her lack of compensation for the damage had nothing to do with the current trespass law - she knew who the person was but failed to bring the person to court to collect damages.

As I've written previously, I don't believe the intent of the legislation is to catch a five year old who wanders above the high water mark. Unless a landowner recognized an individuals' image captured by a trail cam, who would they sue? You need names, license plate numbers, addresses, and positive i.d. etc. to sue. That kind of info. is hard to gather in a one time incident.
I believe the legislation is directed at problematic/habitual offenders who've been emboldened by lack of enforcement and small criminal penalties.
As for the members of the committee, anytime you have lawmakers who wear bolo ties, strange things are bound to happen.

 

[RobG]

As I've written previously, I don't believe the intent of the legislation is to catch a five year old who wanders above the high water mark. Unless a landowner recognized an individuals' image captured by a trail cam, who would they sue? You need names, license plate numbers, addresses, and positive i.d. etc. to sue. That kind of info. is hard to gather in a one time incident.
I believe the legislation is directed at problematic/habitual offenders who've been emboldened by lack of enforcement and small criminal penalties.
As for the members of the committee, anytime you have lawmakers who wear bolo ties, strange things are bound to happen.

That may be the intent of the legislator (I doubt it since the fine includes the 1st offense); however, it is up to the landowner to decide how it will be used. If the landowner wants to collect from the five-year-old's father I believe the judge is obligated to make the award.

Anyway, the bill is being heard today in, get this, House Agriculture (not House Judiciary): http://leg.mt.gov/css/Sessions/63rd/legwebmessage.asp

 

[earthwalker]

Eric Moore was a no show at the hearing, Austin Knutsen stood in his place. Bill was amended- the $1500 penalty was dropped to $500.

 

[Wapiti Warrior]

What about someone photo chopping a picture of you and make it look like you are on their land? This is a BAD bill, I have contacted the legislatures and voiced my opinion!

John

 

[Gevock]

This bill was amended to make the fine $500. A person who wants to pursue it would still have to get a lawyer, so it's difficult to determine what effect it will have. It allows a photo to be proof of trespassing. The bill passed out of House Ag today and will head to the House floor soon.

Nick Gevock
Montana Wildlife Federation

 

[RobG]

Well looking at the testimony by the opponents, which was zero, it doesn't seem like many people care about it. I feel better that it is now $500.

The sponsor's stand-in said that an attorney isn't required for civil cases.

 

[RobG]

Died in the House this morning 41-59.

 

[earthwalker]

Congrats, Rob. I thought this one would be a slam dunk. -You wanna buy some game cameras?

 

[Big Fin]

Died in the House this morning 41-59.

Yes! Yes! Yes!

I am in Bismarck for a presentation to the ND Bowhunters Association. They just heard me let out a whoop upon reading this new and all looked at me.

Worth a little embarrassment to shout out to those who worked so hard to kill it. Thanks to so many.

 

[shoots-straight]

Rob,

MSA worked hard on this bill, we hit the reps with mailings and called many that would listen.

We didn't have any available people to testify on the day of the hearing. We are spread a little thin right now. The session can't come to an end soon enough.