MT Civil Trespass Bill

[shoots-straight]

Again, not saying I'm supporting the bill, I just don't like the broad paint brushing of all landowners as anti-sportsmen.

You can thank the sponsor of this bill for that. What did you expect would come from a bill like this? It pits sportsman against the landowners right or wrong.

Most landowners are good people. In fact most landowners I know are very tolerant of trespassing. Most, understand the problems, and know that mistakes happen. MOST!

I was with a large landowner in the Big Hole Valley, we rode sleds into his house one winter to check on the ranch.
Half the town of Wisdom, was there on his private pond fishing. (he had planted Kamloops rainbows for $2 each) He asked how the fishing was? They said oh great caught like 50 yesterday, and that number again today. There was around 10 people fishing. The rancher asked who gave out the permission to be there, and the original guy fishing gave some BS name for permission. The rancher told the guy fishing that it was BS cause that guy didn't own the pond or the ranch. The guy fishing asked how did he know? The rancher told him it's because he owned it.

Anyway he never made anybody pay for the fish, just told them to leave. I think he restocked the pond that following year. I don't think I would have been as tolerant.

A first offense of $135 is not BS. It was a min of $25. How about thinking about kids that accidentally trespass. I think that x-box and staying at home is a better risk for them. They will too.

You want to teach them right from wrong, but not deter them from hunting and fishing. We already are fighting a loosing battle with our youth as it is now.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Would this apply to folks living in the Cities (i.e., Great Falls, Kalispell, Missoula, Bozeman, Billings, etc.) for say someone who walks through your yard when they have been asked repeatedly not too? OR someone's dog who craps in your yard on a regular basis?

It just seems this could be used in a "broader" sense and could result in a lot of "trespass" claims for "civil" reasons.

Now the grumpy old man on the corner can hit up the local 4th graders for cash when the cut across his lawn

 

[FishN4Eyes]

You can thank the sponsor of this bill for that. What did you expect would come from a bill like this? It pits sportsman against the landowners right or wrong.

Most landowners are good people. In fact most landowners I know are very tolerant of trespassing. Most, understand the problems, and know that mistakes happen. MOST!

I was with a large landowner in the Big Hole Valley, we rode sleds into his house one winter to check on the ranch.
Half the town of Wisdom, was there on his private pond fishing. (he had planted Kamloops rainbows for $2 each) He asked how the fishing was? They said oh great caught like 50 yesterday, and that number again today. There was around 10 people fishing. The rancher asked who gave out the permission to be there, and the original guy fishing gave some BS name for permission. The rancher told the guy fishing that it was BS cause that guy didn't own the pond or the ranch. The guy fishing asked how did he know? The rancher told him it's because he owned it.

Anyway he never made anybody pay for the fish, just told them to leave. I think he restocked the pond that following year. I don't think I would have been as tolerant.

A first offense of $135 is not BS. It was a min of $25. How about thinking about kids that accidentally trespass. I think that x-box and staying at home is a better risk for them. They will too.

You want to teach them right from wrong, but not deter them from hunting and fishing. We already are fighting a loosing battle with our youth as it is now.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

I have no idea why anyone would be tolerant of trespassers though and kids should respect private property owners right just like adults.

I completely understand that true trespass accidents happen and I doubt most landowners would enact the civil penalty in those cases. But for the really serious, ugly incidents I'm all for it.

I'll also admit I'm no where near educated on the bill so I'm talking out my azz a bit in regard to the specifics of it, just have had ugly trespass experiences that I would have liked to have a little more teeth in the penalties.

Totally respect your opinion.

I've read enough of your posts to understand you're passionate about sportmen's issues but I just don't see this as much of an infringement on the right's of sportsmen, at least law-abiding ones.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Why not just put some mandatory prison time in there as well? Law abiding sportsman shouldn't have a thing to worry about.

Meanwhile, let's make sure the public can't get to anything that's locked up by a corner, make sure we can't have any wildlife around that could carry a disease, make sure we can shoot any big game animal on sight that poses a threat, make it so we can kick some ass limitless guiding operations and attact an unlimited amount of customers since we're shooting for tens of thousands of surplus tags for every species available to any non-resident. And, oh, if something doesn't go how we want it, let's make sure our buddy, who's the county commissioner can override any solid biological advice from a professional wildlife manager.

Screw you guys.

 

[shoots-straight]

Why not just put some mandatory prison time in there as well? Law abiding sportsman shouldn't have a thing to worry about.

Meanwhile, let's make sure the public can't get to anything that's locked up by a corner, make sure we can't have any wildlife around that could carry a disease, make sure we can shoot any big game animal on sight that poses a threat, make it so we can kick some ass limitless guiding operations and attact an unlimited amount of customers since we're shooting for tens of thousands of surplus tags for every species available to any non-resident. And, oh, if something doesn't go how we want it, let's make sure our buddy, who's the county commissioner can override any solid biological advice from a professional wildlife manager.

Screw you guys.

Can you show up in Helena for testimony on the 5th?

 

[earthwalker]

Can you show up in Helena for testimony on the 5th?

...maybe put on a buttstroking demonstration?

 

[FishN4Eyes]

Why not just put some mandatory prison time in there as well? Law abiding sportsman shouldn't have a thing to worry about.

Meanwhile, let's make sure the public can't get to anything that's locked up by a corner, make sure we can't have any wildlife around that could carry a disease, make sure we can shoot any big game animal on sight that poses a threat, make it so we can kick some ass limitless guiding operations and attact an unlimited amount of customers since we're shooting for tens of thousands of surplus tags for every species available to any non-resident. And, oh, if something doesn't go how we want it, let's make sure our buddy, who's the county commissioner can override any solid biological advice from a professional wildlife manager.

Screw you guys.

Nothing like painting everyone with a broad brush.

FWIW, I favored the corner crossing bill and am all for increased public access as that helps me and most other people out.

I'm not accepting of people trespassing on private property without permission and think that the penalties for that should be more severe. That's all I'm saying and not saying this particular bill is the answer.

I am tired of people intentionally hunting private property and getting lightly spanked when they do it.

Screw you too, you'd probably have a different opinion if you'd had some of the experiences we had with so-called sportsmen.

Kidding about the screw you too, but it can be frustrating for landowners just like it can be for sportsmen and I'm both a landowner (albeit small) and sportsman.

There are a lot of good people who are not Ted Turner-types out there.

I was born and raised in Montana and have never left and spend all my free time hunting, fishing, hiking and enjoying public and private land alike.

And hell, I'm even a Bobcat, circa 1997.

Again, kind of lost the focus of the Bill in this so I'll try to refrain from straying off topic.

 

[shoots-straight]

I am tired of people intentionally hunting private property and getting lightly spanked when they do it.

OK, you post my public lands, you lose your lease, and pay a $1500 min civil fine.

You try to intimidate me to turn around on a public road: You get fined statutorily and lose $1500 min in civil case.

You lease your lands to outfitters, you pay "commercial" land use, property tax.

You run more cow calf pairs than the lease says, you lose it, and pay a fine of $500 per cow per month over.

All landowners should also then have to survey their lands, and put up signage.

Then, I don't give a rats ass what the fine is. You don't have to fence it just mark.

Same with easements. They should be clearly spelled out and marked. All access points should be clearly marked so there's no confusion.

Sportsman don't want to trespass, and most believe in property rights.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

OK, you post my public lands, you lose your lease, and pay a $1500 min civil fine.

You try to intimidate me to turn around on a public road: You get fined statutorily and lose $1500 min in civil case.

You lease your lands to outfitters, you pay "commercial" land use, property tax.

You run more cow calf pairs than the lease says, you lose it, and pay a fine of $500 per cow per month over.

All landowners should also then have to survey their lands, and put up signage.

Then, I don't give a rats ass what the fine is. You don't have to fence it just mark.

Same with easements. They should be clearly spelled out and marked. All access points should be clearly marked so there's no confusion.

Sportsman don't want to trespass, and most believe in property rights.

Looks good to me, the sword cuts both ways.:hump:

 

[FishN4Eyes]

OK, you post my public lands, you lose your lease, and pay a $1500 min civil fine.

You try to intimidate me to turn around on a public road: You get fined statutorily and lose $1500 min in civil case.

You lease your lands to outfitters, you pay "commercial" land use, property tax.

You run more cow calf pairs than the lease says, you lose it, and pay a fine of $500 per cow per month over.

All landowners should also then have to survey their lands, and put up signage.

Then, I don't give a rats ass what the fine is. You don't have to fence it just mark.

Same with easements. They should be clearly spelled out and marked. All access points should be clearly marked so there's no confusion.

Sportsman don't want to trespass, and most believe in property rights.

Agree 100% with your comments.

Believe me, I'm on the same side as you, Greenhorn and others who have posted.

I also believe in private property owner's rights just like I do the public's (which is me most of the time).

 

[RobG]

Just curious, the fine dollar amount is a minimum so with the existing law how many times are blatant trespassers given the minimum fine?

(Also be aware that the $1500 penalty is also a minimum).

 

[Anyfish]

I am concerned about the legal precedence this would set. Typically a Civil judgement would be in line with damages incurred that are not being reimbursed under the criminal laws. How are they coming up with a landowner's damage amount of $1500? I can see this getting abused by guys in the stream access arena. Step above the high water mark to take a leak and you cost yourself $1500.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I had a juicy dream the other night that I was hunting bison in eastern Montana. I waited along the county road while my buddy jumped a corner pin and started a stampede. In no time at all, the herd was dragging 5 rolls worth of barbed wire and steel posts across the prairie. We were we able to nail a couple of the large bison bulls on the recently purchased Missouri Breaks state WMA, while the remainder of the herd ravaged though John Brendan's cousin's pasture, leaving a trail of brucellosis infected slime. A local guide tried to kick us off public land, but we got a photo of him crying and were eventually able to have him convicted of felony hunter harassment. The guide was later hung by the neck until dead, only after paying a minimum $1500 fine and losing his license to earn his only source of income, taking douchebags from the east coast hunting elk in the breaks. Good times!

 

[Dinkshooter]

I had a juicy dream the other night that I was hunting bison in eastern Montana. I waited along the county road while my buddy jumped a corner pin and started a stampede. In no time at all, the herd was dragging 5 rolls worth of barbed wire and steel posts across the prairie. We were we able to nail a couple of the large bison bulls on the recently purchased Missouri Breaks state WMA, while the remainder of the herd ravaged though John Brendan's cousin's pasture, leaving a trail of brucellosis infected slime. A local guide tried to kick us off public land, but we got a photo of him crying and were eventually able to have him convicted of felony hunter harassment. The guide was later hung by the neck until dead, only after paying a minimum $1500 fine and losing his license to earn his only source of income, taking douchebags from the east coast hunting elk in the breaks. Good times!

HA! You may have missed insulting someone, I'm gonna read it 5 times and find out who was missed!

Nicely done.

 

[mdunc8]

HA! You may have missed insulting someone,

SFW maybe?

 

[noharleyyet]

I had a juicy dream the other night that I was hunting bison in eastern Montana. I waited along the county road while my buddy jumped a corner pin and started a stampede. In no time at all, the herd was dragging 5 rolls worth of barbed wire and steel posts across the prairie. We were we able to nail a couple of the large bison bulls on the recently purchased Missouri Breaks state WMA, while the remainder of the herd ravaged though John Brendan's cousin's pasture, leaving a trail of brucellosis infected slime. A local guide tried to kick us off public land, but we got a photo of him crying and were eventually able to have him convicted of felony hunter harassment. The guide was later hung by the neck until dead, only after paying a minimum $1500 fine and losing his license to earn his only source of income, taking douchebags from the east coast hunting elk in the breaks. Good times!

Like.....

 

[bow-n-head]

I hope someone catches his son/grandson whoever relative of his cutting through their lawn in town. He should be happy to pay the 1500. I'm putting up surveillance cameras one ticket will pay for them.

 

[earthwalker]

I am concerned about the legal precedence this would set. Typically a Civil judgement would be in line with damages incurred that are not being reimbursed under the criminal laws. How are they coming up with a landowner's damage amount of $1500? I can see this getting abused by guys in the stream access arena. Step above the high water mark to take a leak and you cost yourself $1500.

Yep, trespassing and pissing on private property comes at a cost. In 1986, I was caught taking a leak in the alley behind the Bison Bar in Miles City and it wound up costing me $575. -According to the officers' testimony, there was a chase involved and a struggle ensued, but to this day, I don't recall much about the event.

 

[earthwalker]

I had a juicy dream the other night that I was hunting bison in eastern Montana. I waited along the county road while my buddy jumped a corner pin and started a stampede. In no time at all, the herd was dragging 5 rolls worth of barbed wire and steel posts across the prairie. We were we able to nail a couple of the large bison bulls on the recently purchased Missouri Breaks state WMA, while the remainder of the herd ravaged though John Brendan's cousin's pasture, leaving a trail of brucellosis infected slime. A local guide tried to kick us off public land, but we got a photo of him crying and were eventually able to have him convicted of felony hunter harassment. The guide was later hung by the neck until dead, only after paying a minimum $1500 fine and losing his license to earn his only source of income, taking douchebags from the east coast hunting elk in the breaks. Good times!

As dawn broke, our hero wakened to the sound of conservative talk radio and was reassured to hear that the Republican Party had a 69 to 31 advantage in the Montana House. Surely, his dreams would become reality and there would be no $1500 judgements against him in the future. Convinced that his elected representatives would protect his interests, he rolled over, hit the snooze button, and drifted, contentedly, into a dream of buttstroking the skulls of his adversaries.

 

[Straight Arrow]

earthwalker, you're the reason the rest of us have to put up with trespiss laws.