Most rewarding experience - private vs. Public lands

[RockyDog]

Every fall i see pic after pic of huge bulls that come from private lands in montana. Recently i was invited to visit a huge private ranch in central montana and i got to see just how posh the private land hunters have it. Nice heated "cabin" to stay in with electricity, phone, TV, toilet etc. Drive trucks or ATVs within view of the bulls and they dont even spook. Pick the biggest and BAM, 350 to 400 inch bull down. Take some pictures of yourself, your wife, your infant, etc. straddling the huge bull. Then load it whole in the truck and drive into town. I dont get to hunt private land, and ive never attempted to hunt private boundaries. My thing has always been to hunt miles into the backcountry. In the backcountry, every hunter has to endure pretty much the same conditions before they can bag an elk. With the possible exception of the guided hunters who are cared for in camp by outfitters. However, the bulls rarely grow boone & crockett racks because they have to live in those rugged conditions.

After watching the OYOA videos and seeing how much effort, cold weather, wind, etc. that Randy and his crew have endured to hunt the borders of these private lands, often with no success, i can see very clearly how different the experience is for the average joe hunter compared to those lucky enough to have the connections or money that allow access to these dream hunting properties. The cost of a private land hunt is in the $10-12k range now.

My question– of the below options (or make up your own) which would you find most rewarding and which would mean the least to you. Also, do any of them “turn you off” elk hunting.

A) respectable bull that you shot while hunting miles into the forest
B) trophy bull that you shot after it finally jumped that fence onto public
C) B&C bull shot on private land with full privileges via either $ payment or special permission.

 

[Horn Seeker]

(A) is definitely my choice... If I am hunting public ground adjacent to a good ranch though, I'd be fairly happy to kill any bull, especially a big one. Being in the right place at the right time is a big part of what elk hunting is...

I LOVE hunting the backcountry... just spent 8 days packed about 5 miles back in the "wilderness"...Didn't kill a thing. Saw some nice bulls, heard a boat load of bugles, saw some bears... had campfires and good buddies... 10" snow on a meagher shelter.... Fun, FUN chit...

 

[Silent But Deadly]

Both A and B would be very rewarding to me. The concept of a big bull jumping across the fence into public is a little misleading. It is a lot harder than it sounds in my opinion, or at least where I have hunted. I have hunted borders plenty, and those elk seem to know whats going on. A big bull on public to me is a big bull on public. The other very rewarding experience to me would be killing a giant bull unguided on private land where I had to pay a reasonable tresspass fee. Maybe zero to $2000.
A turnoff to me would be paying a guide a bunch of cash to sit me on a water hole in public or private property and wait for a big bull to come in. Maybe when I get old and crippled I will have a different opinion.

 

[Dinkshooter]

A and B

B. Just as soon as his front feet hit the ground while he is jumping the fence.

 

[Bambistew]

Depends. If the ranch is an 'elk ranch' managed for big bulls and run by db outfitter then forget about it. I'm not into hunting 'raised' animals. If its private with no managment or outfitters running it open to the public for the most part... maybe somewhat limiting pressure. Not really any diffrent to me than public land. I've hunted private land that gets more pressure than a lot of public land I hunt.

Its a personal thing not a competition. If people want to pay for the easy elk, more power too them. They know they paid for it and it will never equal an animal shot on a DIY hunt in the back country.

Personally I think the exact same thing can be said for "premium" tags. You have an opportunity to hunt an area that limits pressure, or is managed for trophy animals... really not much differnt that hunting private land IMO.

Really the same thing could be said about hunting the back country say with horses... Its an advantage over someone else. Hell even being in good enough shape or young enough to do those kind of hunts is an advantage over a lot of people. Not to mention having the money and time to do it.

I was having a discussion with one of my friends the other day about how to 'burn' his 9 elk points in CO. He doesnt' really haven enough for a premium tag nor will he ever. He doesn't want to 'waste' them on a rag horn hunt... I told him I'd rather waste them on a raghorn then stay home and dream about

I think by and large we get so hung up on inches of antler we forget that hunting is an experience not a competition.

 

[JoseCuervo]

"A" only......

too much can go "wrong" with "B"....

"C" just seems like a waste of money. If you want to drop that kind of cash, spend the money somewhere else that will at least give you an "adventure", not just a bunch of hay-fed meat and a picture of you in clean clothes.

 

[smalls]

Maybe I am looking into your question too much Rocky (forgive me if I am), but reading questions that seem to want to justify that "what I do is better/more fulfilling than what that guy does" makes me feel a little slimey inside.

Who gives a chit what others do within the realm of personal ethic and law. Guys who post their pics and stories do so because they are proud of their accomplishment, not so that keyboard kung-fu champs can attempt to denigrate their experience by comparing their own adventures. I know I've killed animals that many here would have passed on. Does the fact that most wouldn't have made the same decision to pull the trigger at times that I did make those hunts less enjoyable... hell no. I would hate for people to be intimidated not to share their experiences because of fear of being judged.

I see great value in expressing admiration of others abilities, adventures and accomplishments, but no value in discussing what we don't like about how group "X" legally and ethically goes about their hunting/outdoors lives.

Now I am not advocating holding back when a guy obviously oversteps the bounds of ethics and law. In those instances, flame away... but that is simply not what we are talking about here. You've given several perfectly legal, perfectly ethical situations... each of which makes plenty of hunters satisfied with their efforts.

 

[Horn Seeker]

I say we try and make all the rich, privileged guys feel bad!!! Cause they sure make me feel bad! BoooHooo!!!

I think there is definitely something to "doing it the hard way" ... Like Tred Barta... :0) BUT...I am certainly not trying to make anyone feel bad about their hunts!!! I do it the hard way and dont kill chit! So I will say it gets frustrating seeing the guys with their big bulls in the grasslands!! :0)

 

[RockyDog]

Smalls you read me wrong or i didnt get my real point across, I am not trying to downgrade anyones accomplishments or make an ethical superiority claim.

I posted this to guage how others feel about the reality of elk hunting in today's modern Montana.

 

[drahthaar]

I see no difference in A or B. If the big one can jump the fence, it is fair chase and if I am lucky enought to be there, fine. Never seems to happen to me, but I would like to be that dogs butt the sun is shining on once in a while.

C is fine for me if its special permission, and just a big ranch not raising animals they named and all, but I am not paying high dollars. Just not worth it. I will get that booner someday without paying the big dollars. I have special permission on a ranch I worked all through high school, elk were just as wild there as on public, but now its high-fenced, to keep elk out. Trees knock the fences down, or someone leaves a gate open, elk get in. The rancher always tells me to come out, "there is good bull in there", but I just would not feel good about it. The whities on the place come and go through or over the fence, but the elk can't, would feel like a real heel shooting that bull. Invariably, someone takes him up on it, drives out, pushes the herd into a corner and shoots the bull, then parades around town. Whatever.

 

[Elkwhisper]

Well... since it seems that I may be the subject of this discussion, or at least part of it, let me throw my 2 cents in.

I Choose A, B, and C (minus the $$$)

I do not, will not, and have never paid my own money for a guided hunt. I have been on two guided hunts. One for pigs in California, and one for Moose in Canada. Both were benefits of my job. I enjoyed both of them very much, but not nearly as much as the DIY hunts I have done for Mountain Goat, Caribou, Grizzly, Black Bear, Elk, Antelope, Turkey etc........ I am a hunter, that's what I do, and I am good at it regardless of where I hunt. If I wanted to follow some guy arround that thinks he knows more than I do, I would still be in the military.

Now there is a HUGE difference in my mind, between hunting on private land, and paying big dollars for access or going on a fully guided hunt. Where I hunt we do ALL of our own work, from scouting, calling, filming, gutting, packing etc..... It truly is "DIY", it just happens to take place on land not owned by Uncle Sam. I do not pay a penny for access to the land I hunt, although I do try to be a good friend and neighbor by lending a hand whenever one is needed.

Bottom line is I like to hunt elk where they live! Near Billings, MT most of the elk happen to live on private land, and I am lucky enough to have the opportunity to hunt them there. I have taken big bulls on both public and private land, and can tell you first hand that when a big sweaty, piss covered bull bugles in your face and blows snot all over, it doesn't matter which side of the fence you happen to be standing on. It is up as you as a hunter to turn that opportunity into steaks in the freezer and horns on the wall.

I enjoy my time spent afield even if I don't see a thing. It's just a lot more fun when the critters are there to make things more interesting. I will do what I have to do, to hunt where the animals are... sometimes I hike 20 miles....sometimes I spend months researching a hunt on the net.. sometimes I hire a float plane...and sometimes I call up someone I know and ask for permission to hunt? A pretty large percentage of the animals in this country live on , and rely on private land. Seems pretty silly to me, not to hunt them. Let's here it for the landowners who still give sportsman like us the opportunity to do what we love.

Elkwhisper

 

[RockyDog]

good things to know but actually Elkwhisperer you were not the subject and i have no idea where you hunt, the ranch that i visited and get the pictures from was "my" subject. I dont want to name that ranch here.

 

[Elkwhisper]

RockyDog..... I guess I didn't mean that you were refering to me specically... just the fact that I just posted a pic of a "grassland" bull that came off private ground. Just felt that the topic applied to my particular situation....

 

[Horn Seeker]

and whisper, I was just being smart ass! hence the "boohoo" comment... man...to hunt elk in open country like that would be a treat! Sort of! Might be tougher to get in bow range too!

Do you live in Billings?

 

[The Hedgehog]

If I had permission on that place you guys were hunting I'd be there! Looks awesome. But I suspect if you had the rifle permit, you'd of passed on the bull you killed.

As for A, B, or C.. I'll take all three or some variation. I'd prefer big animals, public land, limited hunter pressure... but those places aren't so common without some other underlying factor.

I will soon be hunting an animal on either public or private, depending on where he's standing.. since there's no fences dividing some of the parcels. I've permission on 3 properties totalling more acreage than anybody could possibily weed through all the animals on. No fees required, just meet and greet like most hunters looking for a place to hunt.

Whether the animal is standing on the BLM, state, or deeded, makes no difference in the reward factor to me. I've had multiple bow shot opportunities on top end P&Y animals this fall, but not on the specific one I've got in mind for my 2009 Montana tag. I've had him in range 3 times and blew it everytime. Even at 600 yards, squeezing the trigger on my 300 Mag will be no less rewarding when the time comes.

 

[The Hedgehog]

By the way, I wasn't talking about elk above - I was talking about pronghorn.. I guess the terrain where I hunt lopes is similar to where you are hunting elk. That's why I love it so much.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Also the most rewarding experience of my last hunt, was getting to my truck before taking the plunge and drinking from a stock pond. I reached my truck, opened the cooler and grabbed a 16 ounce can of ice cold beer! THAT was rewarding.

 

[Elkwhisper]

Greenhorn,

I did have a rifle tag.... I just have a really hard time letting a big 6x6 walk away without an arrow in him. Matter of fact, I just about let the air out of a nice 5x5 the night before. That 5x5 might be the first antlered elk I have ever passed on.......

I have told everyone who will listen, that I would rather kill a 300" bull with a bow than a 350" bull with a rifle, and I mean it. I like to rifle hunt, but I LOVE to archery hunt

I am extremely happy with the bull I killed, and would do it again. Just kind of bumbed I burned 5 bonus points to draw the rifle tag, and then didnt' use it.

Elkwhisper

 

[The Hedgehog]

Wow! You're DUMB. Haha. Just kidding. To each their own.

I walked in on (32 yards) a 6X6 opening morning of bow season. I didn't nock an arrow. He wasn't a 300 inch bull though - not that that's my criteria for being something I'll shoot. I like to hunt elk. I'm looking forward to tracking one down on a perfect snow day in November. It might even be smaller than the one I didn't fling an arrow at. That bull was 9 miles in on foot, in the Lee Metcalf Wilderness area.

I hope to find a big bull standing near the road and gun his ass down. Trust me.. I'll find it rewarding too.

Best animal I didn't shoot this year was a 16" pronghorn at 30 yards - he had good mass all the way, crap prong and ugly. I was at full draw while my buddy holding the decoy thought I was going to release.. I was just kidding him. No way. I'd guess it was about a 77-78" buck. About an hour later I was full draw on a better buck that I might have released on had he not spooked. It would have also been a mistake.

I'll be the first in line to take my chance on a big elk ranch in eastern MT. I just don't have the time to put in to find a place like that or the money typically involved when elk are concerned. Antelope are so unpopular that great bucks can be found in huntable places where connections don't really matter and rancher's don't usually have a big cash gain on the line.

 

[Oak]

I will soon be hunting an animal on either public or private, depending on where he's standing.. .

I've heard about him...but haven't seen the photos yet. Good luck!