More Discounted Non-residents licenses for Montana

[DFS]

If the end result is no deer on the landscape I’m good with not shooting them all and letting them go out on their own terms. Mule deer won’t handle the pressure like whitetail do. If there was an end game to kill them all management, I maybe could support that too. So far the management is shoot them before they die and keep the numbers at bare minimum. Montana already has the most aggressive management in the west. Not sure how they could kill more bucks than they do right now.

 

[Lov2hunt]

The question boils down to how many total tags are allowed each year and what's the outcome each year so far and in general. Does MT always.have more tags than allowed? If so doesn't it mean the Elk numbers that were allotted for hunting but weren't harvested and remain alive, adding to the following year counts and reducing the amount of feed foe the living species? If so, then wouldn't increasing the quota while keeping tab on availability as they do each year be a decent proposal? If resident and nonresident total is less than what should be hunted the state is trying to attract more hunters to manage the numbers. Certainly there's nothing wrong with that notion.
I'm not saying this because I'm not a resident. I've never tried to get a nr tag in MT. I'm just looking at this without being influenced by emotions that residents may feel.

 

[SwaggyD]

I’m an excellent shart shooter. How do I apply?

hiring shart shooters

 

[brockel]

Don't want to derail this thread so sorry if this isn't the place.

But, why are states still trying to "controll" CWD via killing deer? Giving out tags like candy for free and hiring shart shooters etc.

Montana is full of shart shooters in the fall and we still have CWD.

 

[brockel]

I’m an excellent shart shooter. How do I apply?

Beat me to it

 

[WIbiggame]

@brockel & @SwaggyD I saw that typo when k re read it but figured I would let someone or multiple people have fun at my expense. happy Sunday

 

[WIbiggame]

The question boils down to how many total tags are allowed each year and what's the outcome each year so far and in general. Does MT always.have more tags than allowed? If so doesn't it mean the Elk numbers that were allotted for hunting but weren't harvested and remain alive, adding to the following year counts and reducing the amount of feed foe the living species? If so, then wouldn't increasing the quota while keeping tab on availability as they do each year be a decent proposal? If resident and nonresident total is less than what should be hunted the state is trying to attract more hunters to manage the numbers. Certainly there's nothing wrong with that notion.
I'm not saying this because I'm not a resident. I've never tried to get a nr tag in MT. I'm just looking at this without being influenced by emotions that residents may feel.

I can't speak for residents but would assume from what I have read that many echo my feelings as a NR. In that I would rather have less people on the landscape. In a lot of the west it's not so much a game number (exception of mule deer in places) its more of an access problem. By piling more NR & R onto the public land just exacerbates this problem and makes for a less desirable hunt imo.

 

[SwaggyD]

@brockel & @SwaggyD I saw that typo when k re read it but figured I would let someone or multiple people have fun at my expense. happy Sunday

cheers!

 

[antlerradar]

"We have to do something, doing nothing won't work."

I've heard it over and over again.

Doing the same thing since I was twelve is pretty much doing nothing.

 

[Jock Conyngham]

According to Brett French, in 2021 FWP sold more than 66,600 non-res elk, deer, and combo licenses.

Sportsmen worry nonresident hunting license sales misrepresented

In 2021, the Department of Fish, Wildlife & Parks sold more than 66,600 nonresident deer and elk licenses.

billingsgazette.com

 

[The Hedgehog]

Doing the same thing since I was twelve is pretty much doing nothing.

It’s not the same as back then. There’s a lot more licenses being sold. Arrows are killing beyond 100 yards, bullets past 1000. All the information on where, when, and how to hunt is right on everybody pocket sized mobile device. And especially with elk - the season to kill them is twice as long.

 

[The Hedgehog]

But I got a muzzleloader now too, and a second one on order..

 

[DFS]

But I got a muzzleloader now too, and a second one on order..

Quick follow up shot?

 

[Lov2hunt]

I’m an excellent shart shooter. How do I apply?

LOL. why o why that profile picture

 

[The Hedgehog]

Quick follow up shot?

No, but I like the way you're thinking. I got the first one I could grab that was MT allowable. The one on order is a better one, designed specifically for MT regs, but will be another 6 months before I get it. They are cheap and can be dropped off right on your doorstep. I have also already applied for muzzleloader seasons elsewhere (New Mexico), so it should get use regardless, if lucky in a draw.

 

[antlerradar]

It’s not the same as back then. There’s a lot more licenses being sold. Arrows are killing beyond 100 yards, bullets past 1000. All the information on where, when, and how to hunt is right on everybody pocket sized mobile device. And especially with elk - the season to kill them is twice as long.

You are correct of course. Mostly I was commenting on the "we have to do something" to slow CWD comment. With mule deer the plan seams to be stick with what we have been doing the last 40+ years, which is doing nothing.

 

[Trap]

Ok I looked at rough numbers. And , as an example, the come home to hunt licenses issued last year were 712. Total elk/ deer licenses were 186000. Are these cut out’s really the problem? I think the native plus come home to hunt combined is around 3000. Just some ball park figures, but everyone is freaking out over a tweak to a program accounting for 1.5 percent of total licensing? I like how the “new” residents seem to be the most outraged. Montana has the same issues as idaho, all the former non resident hunters have become residents. How about 10 podcasts in 1 week explaining how and WHY everyone should apply in Montana. What affect does that have on the draw system and tag demand. These carve outs wouldn’t even be a thing if the hunting industry didn’t promote western hunting to death. I tried to read most of it but only made it halfway. It just doesn’t seem like 3-4000 tags max should even make the top 10 in Montana. The biggest issue Montane will have to face is former non resident hunters continuing to become resident hunters with no cap. I moved to Idaho from Montana 30 years ago.(yes I can get the special tags) . Idaho is facing the same problem with a massive influx of former non residents becoming new resident hunters. Seems like time, energy and efforts would be better spent fighting shoulder seasons, season structures and cow and doe tags. There’s no cap on resident tags that’s where the real pressure is coming from. Anyways I don’t really care what they do with the native etc tags. I would like to see some changes to the mule deer season that’s where I have seen a big decline

 

[brocksw]

Doing the same thing since I was twelve is pretty much doing nothing.

What do you propose we do?

Edit: just curious, not trying to start a debate or anything.

 

[antlerradar]

What do you propose we do?

First, If the goal is to slow CWD by reducing the age of bucks, hold the season when the maximum number of bucks are on public land.The best time in SE Montana would be in December as most of the best winter range is on public land. The problem with December is some years the weather can make getting a good harvest difficult. Second best month would be October before the bucks leave the public to look for does on private. On private land the bucks with the best antlers will be shot a young age, but the ones with poor antlers will live and die of old age or CWD. There is a much better chance that you can achieve a younger age class for all antler sizes the more the bucks are on public land during the season.
Second, If you are not going to change the season, manage with the goal of keeping the bucks from leaving public land. Currently bucks are leaving public in search of does during the rut. Try to increase the number of does on public by not shooting them. If you can not have nearly unlimited doe tags on public and rut hunting of bucks and expect bucks to stay on public.
Third. eliminate public land doe tags unless the population is very high. CWD is not going to spread nearly as fast on the public were deer density is relatively low. The fastest spread is going to happen on the agricultural river and creek bottoms. This is where the population needs to be reduced. I understand that it can be difficult to get access to those places, but when the tag is also good on public most hunters will not even try. By issuing tags that are good on both public and private like FWP has done for at least 30 years, they are not trying ether.

 

[Lov2hunt]

I can't speak for residents but would assume from what I have read that many echo my feelings as a NR. In that I would rather have less people on the landscape. In a lot of the west it's not so much a game number (exception of mule deer in places) its more of an access problem. By piling more NR & R onto the public land just exacerbates this problem and makes for a less desirable hunt imo.

So then by extension there shouldn't be any NR tags in any state