RockyDog
Member
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 11-06-2003 16:35: Message edited by: RockyDog ]</font>
More ATV Lawbreaking
- Thread starter RockyDog
- Start date
Ithaca 37
New member
Another nail in the ATV coffin.
Calif. Hunter
Active member
Driving in to work this morning, I saw that a lot of people were driving waaaaaay over the speed limit. I guess it's time to ban cars for everyone.
Actually, I'm beginning to think that ATVs should be banned from public land during hunting season. But then, the same jerks would just drive their 4x4 trucks offroad. There just aren't enough wardens/rangers to enforce the rules on the vast amount of public land in some areas, and the jerks know it.
Actually, I'm beginning to think that ATVs should be banned from public land during hunting season. But then, the same jerks would just drive their 4x4 trucks offroad. There just aren't enough wardens/rangers to enforce the rules on the vast amount of public land in some areas, and the jerks know it.
Ten Bears
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Laws said officials have closed trails in the past, including one up Tin Cup drainage recently. But she couldn't recall a recent time when the agency had had to close a "system trail" because of resource damage.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
RockyDog
Member
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 11-06-2003 16:35: Message edited by: RockyDog ]</font>
dgibson
New member
I'm curious to know how many of the "ban ATV" crowd really care about the environmental issues concerning ATV abuse, versus how many are just mad because the ATVers screw up their hunting opportunities, or ride through an area after they've just spent 3 hours humping it there on foot. If you're part of the former crowd, then banning ATV's during hunting season is irrelevant--you would leave the majority of the year "unprotected." If you're part of the latter crowd, say so and stop hiding behind "it's about the environment!"
Me, I'm sitting fence. I would be sorry to see them banned because a lot of good can be had from them with proper use, but it seems from observation that the ratio of dumbassity to reasonable use is greatly unbalanced these past few years.
Me, I'm sitting fence. I would be sorry to see them banned because a lot of good can be had from them with proper use, but it seems from observation that the ratio of dumbassity to reasonable use is greatly unbalanced these past few years.
Hangar18
New member
Why can't there simply be seriously harsh penalties for abuse, instead of calls for banning them for everyone? This is just like calls for banning all firearms because a few ignorant jerks abuse the privilage. I don't own an ATV and never will, but I can't see the logic in punishing law-abiding people for something they haven't done. I agree with Calif. Hunter on this one.
Ithaca 37
New member
If the Blue Ribbon Coalition was serious about stopping ATV abuse they'd be lobbying for tougher penalties and confiscation of ATVs used illegally. None of the so-called "responsible" ATV clubs are lobbying for higher fines and more severe penalties, even though they know nothing is working. It tells me they're not serious about solving the problem.
Calif. Hunter
Active member
I think that it would be a lot more productive if the anti-ATV crowd took up the idea of tough penalties, rather than banishment. What ATV rider is going to admit that he is a lazy SOB and wants to break the rules, by opposing tough penalties? Take away the violator's hunting rights (even for 5 years), confiscate the ATV and fine him $10,000. A few of those fines would pay for another ranger/game warden. Make it so painful on the violators that they would stop. Again, what ATV group is going to oppose tough penalties for misuse? (You don't hear about pro-gun groups opposing stiff sentences for gun crimes, do you?)
So get off the "Ban 'em all" kick and go in a direction that may actually occur. Or is it just easier to sit back and punch a keyboard and talk tough?
So get off the "Ban 'em all" kick and go in a direction that may actually occur. Or is it just easier to sit back and punch a keyboard and talk tough?
Hangar18
New member
You know all this to be true, right Ithaca?
If that is true, I don't know whether it is or isn't, then I have no problem writing them a letter encouraging just that. Hunters need to encourage more harsh poaching penalties, and this is no different. They need to hear from their members, right?
You might join the BRC as well, then write them encouraging them to do the same. Best $20 you'll ever spend.
If that is true, I don't know whether it is or isn't, then I have no problem writing them a letter encouraging just that. Hunters need to encourage more harsh poaching penalties, and this is no different. They need to hear from their members, right?
You might join the BRC as well, then write them encouraging them to do the same. Best $20 you'll ever spend.
Ithaca 37
New member
"Again, what ATV group is going to oppose tough penalties for misuse?" All of them. It's been tried. The BRC screams the loudest if anyone suggests tougher penalties, along with the Farm Bureau and the Cattlemen's Assoc.
F&G in ID has brought up the idea of confiscating ATVs or any other vehicles used in poaching many times. They get told by the ID legislative leadership not to even think about trying to pass a bill like that. We tried bringing it up a few times when I was a Citizens Against Poaching director.
Anyone can go find a legislator and ask them to sponsor a bill, then try to get it passed. I've done it (or helped do it)about 50 times, probably got about half of them passed. So, Hanger, I suggest you try it yourself and get a little education. I'll even advise you on how to get started. No charge.
Tougher ATV penalties would be a great place to start. Try bouncing it off your BRC buddies first and see how they react!
F&G in ID has brought up the idea of confiscating ATVs or any other vehicles used in poaching many times. They get told by the ID legislative leadership not to even think about trying to pass a bill like that. We tried bringing it up a few times when I was a Citizens Against Poaching director.
Anyone can go find a legislator and ask them to sponsor a bill, then try to get it passed. I've done it (or helped do it)about 50 times, probably got about half of them passed. So, Hanger, I suggest you try it yourself and get a little education. I'll even advise you on how to get started. No charge.
Ten Bears
New member
ROCKY, I've owned and ridden my ATV for the past 13-14 years (+/-), and haven't intentionally broken any laws with it.
There are over 70,000 registered ATV's and dirtbikes in Idaho, and about 120,000 elk hunters (still looking for the data). How many elk hunters do you think are also owners of registered ATV's or dirtbikes?
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 10-14-2003 09:49: Message edited by: Ten Bears ]</font>
There are over 70,000 registered ATV's and dirtbikes in Idaho, and about 120,000 elk hunters (still looking for the data). How many elk hunters do you think are also owners of registered ATV's or dirtbikes?
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 10-14-2003 09:49: Message edited by: Ten Bears ]</font>
RockyDog
Member
TenBears, i dont give a chit how many years youve been an ATV hunter. I can understand why ATV hunting is a little more acceptable in north idaho where the country is thick as hell and carved with gated logging roads. But what people fail to understand is that in more open country like montana they go anywhere and everywhere they please, and they are ruining alot of hunting areas.
After what i saw this saturday, I dont want to be civil to the ATV crowd anymore, they arent worthy of any respect. Like yourself, you dont seem to see any negative in the article posted above.
You and every other Quadhunter can bite my ass.
Barry Twardoski
Florence, Montana
After what i saw this saturday, I dont want to be civil to the ATV crowd anymore, they arent worthy of any respect. Like yourself, you dont seem to see any negative in the article posted above.
You and every other Quadhunter can bite my ass.
Barry Twardoski
Florence, Montana
Ten Bears
New member
RD, it's been nice having a conversation with you, but in this issue, you seem to be as blind as many others around here.
Hangar18
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I suggest you try it yourself and get a little education. I'll even advise you on how to get started. No charge.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> After hunting season is over, I think I will take you up on your offer of advisement. I think you and I are on the same page on this issue. Ahead of time, I would like to know what you are currently doing about it.
Hangar18
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"Again, what ATV group is going to oppose tough penalties for misuse?" All of them. It's been tried. The BRC screams the loudest if anyone suggests tougher penalties, along with the Farm Bureau and the Cattlemen's Assoc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Here you go Ithaca. Read up. HR 3247
Americans for Responsible Recreational Access
Here you go Ithaca. Read up. HR 3247
Americans for Responsible Recreational Access
Mini Moose
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>F&G in ID has brought up the idea of confiscating ATVs or any other vehicles used in poaching many times. They get told by the ID legislative leadership not to even think about trying to pass a bill like that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey "IT" try contacting some of the local F&G offices of idaho and ask them about there poaching penalties, When i was in high school i had to write a bill for my government class and i chose to try to get one about stricter poaching penalties, although it doesn't state in any bill what exact penalties are when i talked with my local F&G wrden confiscation of all hunting equipment was one of the things allready in place, that includes ATVS rifles trucks binos spotting scopes among a few
Hey "IT" try contacting some of the local F&G offices of idaho and ask them about there poaching penalties, When i was in high school i had to write a bill for my government class and i chose to try to get one about stricter poaching penalties, although it doesn't state in any bill what exact penalties are when i talked with my local F&G wrden confiscation of all hunting equipment was one of the things allready in place, that includes ATVS rifles trucks binos spotting scopes among a few
Ithaca 37
New member
Hanger, I read HR3247. Do you know if the BRC is supporting it?
Hangar18
New member
I don't know. A friend told me they did, but I wrote them directly for their official position to make sure. They don't have anything posted on their website.
Edit: And Mini Moose is right, all that stuff can be confiscated if they are caught poaching. The penalties still aren't stiff enough though.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 10-14-2003 16:45: Message edited by: HANGAR 18 ]</font>
Edit: And Mini Moose is right, all that stuff can be confiscated if they are caught poaching. The penalties still aren't stiff enough though.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 10-14-2003 16:45: Message edited by: HANGAR 18 ]</font>
Ithaca 37
New member
Hanger and Mini, Are you real sure about vehicles being eligible for confiscation if used for poaching in Idaho? Here's one of the efforts I was involved in. Sen Andreason worked closely with the Idaho Wildlife Federation on this bill.
"Lawmakers in Idaho have taken aim at spotlighting - the practice of freezing animals with powerful light beams in order to shoot them. State Sen. John Andreason, a long-time elk hunter and Boise Republican, introduced a bill that would slap poachers with hefty fines, a lifetime license revocation, and confiscation of firearms, vehicles and equipment. Andreason was chagrined to learn that even with more than 200 hunting groups in support, the majority of a Senate committee in the Idaho Legislature was not willing to get that tough on poachers.
Andreason forged ahead with a watered-down bill that still increases fines and can revoke a poacher’s hunting privileges for life. The bill passed the Idaho Senate by a 30-3 vote on March 6."
http://www.hcn.org/servlets/hcn.Article?article_id=3404
That was the winter of 1997. I haven't heard about a vehicle confiscation bill since then, but maybe it's because I lost interest after helping organize the support of 200 hunting groups.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 10-14-2003 22:29: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
"Lawmakers in Idaho have taken aim at spotlighting - the practice of freezing animals with powerful light beams in order to shoot them. State Sen. John Andreason, a long-time elk hunter and Boise Republican, introduced a bill that would slap poachers with hefty fines, a lifetime license revocation, and confiscation of firearms, vehicles and equipment. Andreason was chagrined to learn that even with more than 200 hunting groups in support, the majority of a Senate committee in the Idaho Legislature was not willing to get that tough on poachers.
Andreason forged ahead with a watered-down bill that still increases fines and can revoke a poacher’s hunting privileges for life. The bill passed the Idaho Senate by a 30-3 vote on March 6."
http://www.hcn.org/servlets/hcn.Article?article_id=3404
That was the winter of 1997. I haven't heard about a vehicle confiscation bill since then, but maybe it's because I lost interest after helping organize the support of 200 hunting groups.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 10-14-2003 22:29: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
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