Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement

[MTTW]

The biggest issue we have in 6&7 is the deer hunting in the rest of the state has gone to hell. There is a reason all those Washington and Oregon hunters travel an extra 1000 miles to shoot a two year old four point. The rest of the state must really suck and it will not be long and 6&7 will also suck just as bad.

In my opinion this is the east's biggest problem. How do you address it short of building a wall? LE permits, because there is no fixing the west.

 

[huntin24/7]

Na I’m going for a adventure if that money was the point it should have been used to buy beef

I have no doubt there are guys like yourself, but I’m guessing the majority with $, time, and long drive distances invested are going to take something home with them.

 

[Irrelevant]

You may call me spoiled for growing up with better hunting than most. But that still doesn’t mean I have to be alright or settle for crap! Why can’t it get back to where it was? Even if I didn’t get to hunt every year I’d be happier having a higher quality hunting experience than what we currently have. If we never voice our oppositions it will never change, at least for now I have a little bit of hope for something better.

I don't disagree but simply making a point when talk about burning it to the ground, that the ground is a lot lower than many think

 

[Eric Albus]

I think you are right..

So right now in region 7 , 57% mule, deer bucks are killed by nonresidents. If we go to a LE model, region or district based, and it puts a ceiling on NR take at some thing like 20%, do you think that there will be a big push back from folks who have tied those non-residents to their incomes - be they outfitters, hotels, restaurants?


This thread is on Mule deer mismanagement.

In the Gulch my parents live in and in which I grew up, they have not had mule deer doe hunting for two years, because there are no goddamn mule deer there. In the next round of season setting, they are proposing that it be wide open - mule deer does and bucks on a general permit. They don’t fly surveys for this area, there’s currently no biologist hired for this area, and I’ve spent a few days hiking it this year, and there are no deer in this area. Something, something, CWD….

Mismanagement.

There is no simple answer, but I do have some complex restrictive answers. I don’t have time to expound at the moment, as I have about 35 hrs of hunting season left to go. I’ll be happy come 5pm Sunday.

 

[SAJ-99]

Why can’t it get back to where it was? Even if I didn’t get to hunt every year I’d be happier having a higher quality hunting experience than what we currently have.

You seem to be in the 40%, which is where most of the people posting on this thread are. The percentage is high enough that you don't feel alone and almost feel like a major change is possible. Unfortunately, 60% of Rs still want 6 wk seasons over the prime rut. Even if I don't understand it, we can't deny it is reality. But I really don't think that has changed much, so I would say that is not why it can't be like it was. The real reason is progress. Climate, loss and changes in habitat, etc. It is not like mule deer have just started to decline over the last 10 years. It has been a long and steady trend in the wrong direction. Some of it is lead poisoning, but I think most of it is from other factors. This doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

 

[huntin24/7]

I know limited entry is a touchy subject, but I think a benefit once you get a draw system set up is that it would be easier to adjust quotas yearly after a bad drought year, harsh winter, etc.

 

[sclancy27]

You seem to be in the 40%, which is where most of the people posting on this thread are. The percentage is high enough that you don't feel alone and almost feel like a major change is possible. Unfortunately, 60% of Rs still want 6 wk seasons over the prime rut. Even if I don't understand it, we can't deny it is reality. But I really don't think that has changed much, so I would say that is not why it can't be like it was. The real reason is progress. Climate, loss and changes in habitat, etc. It is not like mule deer have just started to decline over the last 10 years. It has been a long and steady trend in the wrong direction. Some of it is lead poisoning, but I think most of it is from other factors. This doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

I'd rather ignore the fact that across every western state, under every style of management, season setting and quota system mule deer are struggling. I'm sure going LE will save it, cause all the LE deer tags are great in MT....

 

[DFS]

I know limited entry is a touchy subject, but I think a benefit once you get a draw system set up is that it would be easier to adjust quotas yearly after a bad drought year, harsh winter, etc.

October general season keeps people in the field. Nonresident caps for sure nonresident should not be killing more bucks than residents in any region. Unfortunately FWP failed to see any problems and we are once again two years away from any meaningful change as things continue to swirl right down the toilet bowl. Neffa is right we have a long ways to go to get to the bottom, what is truly awful to me is a western Montana and Washington hunters dream.

 

[huntin24/7]

I'd rather ignore the fact that across every western state, under every style of management, season setting and quota system mule deer are struggling. I'm sure going LE will save it, cause all the LE deer tags are great in MT....

That’s a fair question. I think many areas that have LE units and are struggling are due to factors beyond lead poisoning like predation, habitat changes, etc. Western MT LE units probably fall into this category. You also have to ask the question though, what would these units be like if they were general or otc units.

 

[huntin24/7]

I would prefer a change in season structure first before going all LE to be clear.

 

[cgasner1]

The best thing I think could happen at this time is a mandatory reporting. Those numbers listed are great but I don’t believe things posted online. Fwp has no way to accurately tell you what was killed where. They really missed the bus by not putting More information in the e tag when successfull

 

[SAJ-99]

October general season keeps people in the field. Nonresident caps for sure nonresident should not be killing more bucks than residents in any region. Unfortunately FWP failed to see any problems and we are once again two years away from any meaningful change as things continue to swirl right down the toilet bowl. Neffa is right we have a long ways to go to get to the bottom, what is truly awful to me is a western Montana and Washington hunters dream.

I agree, only that I think no one in WA dreams of hunting eastern MT, but MT like to treat wildlife like pests rather than a valuable resource, so they go where they get a tag. Let's not pretend like Rs aren't on board. Despite the decline in MD pops, the legislature added a traditional weapon/muzzleloader hunt at the end of the regular season. Then the complaints started that killing a deer with a muzzleloader was too hard and the season should be moved to the break week between archery and rifle. Thankfully it hasn't happened, but wait until muzzleloader sales start to trail off in MT and the manufacturers will ramp up the lobbying for that change. Doesn't take much to see why some are in the "burn it down" stage of grief.

 

[Carnage2011]

That’s a fair question. I think many areas that have LE units and are struggling are due to factors beyond lead poisoning like predation, habitat changes, etc. Western MT LE units probably fall into this category. You also have to ask the question though, what would these units be like if they were general or otc units.

Easy answer to your last question. Unit 322 went from LE to general and is literally garbage after one year. Any of the LE units in MT will go to shit instantly if they go general.

 

[Carnage2011]

The best thing I think could happen at this time is a mandatory reporting. Those numbers listed are great but I don’t believe things posted online. Fwp has no way to accurately tell you what was killed where. They really missed the bus by not putting More information in the e tag when successfull

Maybe. People put a lot of value in mandatory reporting but it could work the other way. What if it shows less harvest? Do we give more doe tags then? Or do we increase limited quotas if less are harvested than we thought?

I would like to see mandatory harvest reporting but I’m not convinced that it will effect management at all.

 

[cgasner1]

Maybe. People put a lot of value in mandatory reporting but it could work the other way. What if it shows less harvest? Do we give more doe tags then? Or do we increase limited quotas if less are harvested than we thought?

I would like to see mandatory harvest reporting but I’m not convinced that it will effect management at all.

At least would have an idea of what’s actually being taken it sure couldn’t hurt to have a better set of numbers to look at. Especially if they some day did go to some sort of a le tag I haven’t talked to anyone in a few years about how my season has went

 

[DFS]

At least would have an idea of what’s actually being taken it sure couldn’t hurt to have a better set of numbers to look at. Especially if they some day did go to some sort of a le tag I haven’t talked to anyone in a few years about how my season has went

We care more than FWP does. If 57% of bucks harvested in region 7 are by nonresidents, bells and whistles should be going off in region 7 headquarters. They aren’t. I agree we should do it but I doubt the data would change a thing.

 

[mtmuley]

Any of the LE units in MT will go to shit instantly if they go general.

Yep. And some are anyway. mtmuley

 

[antlerradar]

I know I haven’t pulled into many resident camps and saw 6-6 on forkys

A large percentage of those NR in region 7 are paying to hunt private land. Just about 100% of them are leaving with at least a four point. You are spot on when it comes to NR that are hunting public.

 

[antlerradar]

You seem to be in the 40%, which is where most of the people posting on this thread are. The percentage is high enough that you don't feel alone and almost feel like a major change is possible. Unfortunately, 60% of Rs still want 6 wk seasons over the prime rut. Even if I don't understand it, we can't deny it is reality. But I really don't think that has changed much, so I would say that is not why it can't be like it was. The real reason is progress. Climate, loss and changes in habitat, etc. It is not like mule deer have just started to decline over the last 10 years. It has been a long and steady trend in the wrong direction. Some of it is lead poisoning, but I think most of it is from other factors. This doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

I have seen a lot of hunters change their thinking since I first started to say we needed some changes in the 90's.

All the reasons that you listed why we can not get back to like it was are also real good reasons why we can not keep hunting mule deer harder now than we did in the early 80's

 

[golfer]

The best thing I think could happen at this time is a mandatory reporting. Those numbers listed are great but I don’t believe things posted online. Fwp has no way to accurately tell you what was killed where. They really missed the bus by not putting More information in the e tag when successfull

At our season setting meeting, a local rep was in attendance. Comment was made that there will be nothing of the sort coming from the legislature.