Shocker. Tough to be hopeful for change when the ones making the decisions don’t see a problem with how things are.
Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement
- Thread starter rogerthat
- Start date
Shocker. Tough to be hopeful for change when the ones making the decisions don’t see a problem with how things are.
Flynarrow
Well-known member
Follow the money. Non residents are loved by FWP because they pay a large percentage of FWPs budget. `Therefore FWP isn't going to willingly turn down the faucet. FWP has little flexibility due to the fixed costs of their budget. They have tweaked the license structure to allow more non residents with different types of licenses. This wont quit. In addition, large landowners with access fees and outfitters are addicted to non residents as well.
Except FWP is proposing to eliminate quota ranges as we type this…
Carnage2011
Well-known member
I believe the commission is the one wanting to eliminate quota ranges isn’t it? I don’t like that idea at all, but they would still be able to adjust quotas, probably even easier. I think the downside of getting rid of quota ranges is commissioners like Tabor could just throw an awful number out to make sure his outfitter friends have plenty of clients.
Yes, it's the commission driving it is what I was told. It was made very clear to me that it would make it much more difficult to adjust quotas. I believe they changed the season setting structure this year and now everything is finalized in December instead of in the spring (that's why we are having these season setting meetings in the middle of hunting season). Say we have a hard winter and the bios realize deer were hit hard during their aerial surveys. They will now have to get approval from the commission to adjust the quotas and also provide justification. I asked at one of the season setting meetings if they would have adequate time to do that, and they said it would be very unlikely. Any changes made to the quotas would likely come a year later than they should.
Carnage2011
Well-known member
Makes sense.
375H&H
Well-known member
No kidding. Just spent a week helping during late buck in Washington and never saw a buck and hardly any deer even driving around during peak rut. Multiple reasons for that but that is probably the first time ever in 30 years that it’s happened.
And seeing all the good bucks taken in Montana this year on this site, kind of takes some wind out of the sail from an outsiders perspective. Not sure there is anything worse than general unit management in Washington state.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
I had slightly better success last week poking around a well known unit. But I didn't see anything over maybe 140".
Better than a lifeless moonscape?
rogerthat
Well-known member
- Joined
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Yeah and it’s crazy to think how garbage Montana is now compared to the 1990s. We didn’t know what we had!
Sioux33
Well-known member
A couple observations from this last season. First, I’ve never seen so many groups of does without a buck during the rut. Usually there’s at least 2.5 year old dinks, but this year I’m guessing only about 30% even had a buck and 90% of those were 2.5 year old 3 points or less. And these spots are well off the road. Seems like the technological advances have made it a near miracle for a buck to get to 4-5 years on public and the good muley states in the west have one thing in common: limited rut hunting. But for us it’s still a free for all and change is needed.
Second, people have been talking about the big bucks posted on social media this year. Is it time a public vs private management comes into play? Limit pressure on public and raise prices for the private tags that those folks can easily afford? Seems this one size fits all approach needs some adjusting when the two sides are polar opposite in quantity and quality.
Second, people have been talking about the big bucks posted on social media this year. Is it time a public vs private management comes into play? Limit pressure on public and raise prices for the private tags that those folks can easily afford? Seems this one size fits all approach needs some adjusting when the two sides are polar opposite in quantity and quality.
The majority of bucks getting shot in region 7 by nonresidents is a very bad stat. As for FWP I don’t believe they care where the deer live as long as there is a few on the landscape. Could create some problems with CWD management but the public land should have limited cwd and not very many deer.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
I think this is what the powers-that-be want, eventually. It’s a short leap between WA where commissioners question the need for hunting at all and MT where commissioners are all about hunting but for those that can afford it. The result for most hunters is basically the same.
huntin24/7
Well-known member
One of my biggest concerns is with the future of mule deer hunting in MT particularly due to the cwd related management. I’m not a cwd naysayer. I know plenty that are. It’s a very real concern. However, the management policies used to attempt to curb cwd transmission are going to be very hard on muley herds on public or accessible lands. Meanwhile, limited access lands are still going to stay similar to what they are in my opinion. As mule deer herds on accessible lands get pounded more, I think there will be a shift to pressure on the whitetail herds that will get pounded as well, and we’ll end up with generally worse populations and age class for both where most of us can hunt. I’ve been fortunate to experience a lot of good deer hunting in my 41 years, but I’m concerned about my kids and the next generation of hunters. And hunting aside, it’s just sad to see the changes on the landscape as far as deer herds go. I really hope I’m wrong with a lot of this stuff, but it’s awefully hard to be very positive about this right now.
Nameless Range
Well-known member
The last week of the season, I slipped into old habits, and hunted the country I grew up in.
I can still go out and see 30-40 deer in a morning - look over half a dozen bucks. I probably saw around a dozen distinct bucks the last week, not a one over 2.5 years old. The Monday after Veterans Day weekend, I drove up a road in a 20 year old burn that used to just be incredible deer hunting, and is still incredible habitat but has basically zero security. I counted 5 deer gut piles in a 3 mile stretch on the side of the road. There's no doe hunting in this district, and there's no whitetail up there. Those were all mule deer bucks.
A week or so ago, this little buck - a very small 2 x 2 - pushed a doe to within 10 yards of me. On Saturday, I came across a man loading his carcass into the back of his truck on the side of the road.
I've said it many times as have others, but I believe the simplest fix to this would be to cease hunting before the rut. We can keep our opportunity, and not strike too many hunter-days from the landscape, but where I grew up, populations are fine, but it's a landscape void of any male deer older than a human toddler.
I can still go out and see 30-40 deer in a morning - look over half a dozen bucks. I probably saw around a dozen distinct bucks the last week, not a one over 2.5 years old. The Monday after Veterans Day weekend, I drove up a road in a 20 year old burn that used to just be incredible deer hunting, and is still incredible habitat but has basically zero security. I counted 5 deer gut piles in a 3 mile stretch on the side of the road. There's no doe hunting in this district, and there's no whitetail up there. Those were all mule deer bucks.
A week or so ago, this little buck - a very small 2 x 2 - pushed a doe to within 10 yards of me. On Saturday, I came across a man loading his carcass into the back of his truck on the side of the road.
I've said it many times as have others, but I believe the simplest fix to this would be to cease hunting before the rut. We can keep our opportunity, and not strike too many hunter-days from the landscape, but where I grew up, populations are fine, but it's a landscape void of any male deer older than a human toddler.
antlerradar
Well-known member
I would like to think you are wrong, but the realist in me says you are right.
The more we pressure accessible land the more restrictive access to private land will become.
More people will get discouraged with the quality of public and pony up the money for a private lease.
More landowners will say not on my place any more to the slaughter and restrict access.
I don't know the answer to CWD, but I am confident we are not going to shoot our way out of it unless we use helicopters
ismith
Well-known member
CWD abatement is the only excuse FW&P can use to make their (mis)management of the resource seem reasonable.
SwaggyD
Well-known member
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I received this tonight and debated posting it because I’m not sure it’ll matter, but I signed it and decided to share. Sign if you want.
https://www.change.org/p/limit-each-region-6-hunting-districts-to-only-50-antlered-mule-deer-permits
https://www.change.org/p/limit-each-region-6-hunting-districts-to-only-50-antlered-mule-deer-permits
All you can do the future doesn’t look bright for mule deer.
