Montana General Season Structure Proposal 3.0

[mtmuley]

Like it or not, since the accepted narrative from all parties is that MT is an “opportunity state” public opinion of what constitutes “opportunity” is a major factor in setting management policy.

It is what it is and changes that don’t accommodate public opinion will most likely not get implemented.

Totally understand this. It's the hardest part of trying to implement any change. And it isn't just a "birthright" thing either. Plenty of newcomers along for the ride. mtmuley

 

[Forkyfinder]

I doubt there is anything since if there was it should include all of the ngos and bios and probably some public opinion….. or at least that’s what we got told if you look back a couple pages which at this point you would think people on here would have seen

I never said that.

 

[cgasner1]

I never said that.

Never said you did

 

[bigsky2]

Reagon H which is 8 different hunting districts in Wyoming have a rifle mule deer hunt from September 15th-mid October and region G which I believe is 4 hunting districts is the same. The archery elk season starts September 1st and goes to September 30. There are many other areas in Wyoming that also have this timeframe. All the areas I’ve looked at in Wyoming for elk hunting never had a two week gap Region H and Region G areas start the day after archery season ends, which is September 26 through September 30 for rifle Elk.

I agree with what you are saying but trying to change so much so fast at one time isn’t going to work, Montana is an opportunity state and that’s what the majority of the people want. If we can make small changes, that would give us a better opportunity to gather information on what’s going on in the regions. I think the people would agree with that more than completely turning the entire Hunting seasons upside down. I would love to see horn restrictions go into effect as well.

I think you are overstating how much change this would involve when you say it would “turn the entire hunting seasons upside down.” Archery season would shift forward a little, and general mule deer season would move forward and be shortened about a week. Other than that, general whitetail, elk, LE, and muzzleloader remain unchanged. I would agree that the original version of the proposal was too much change but this current one isn’t asking for too much.

We realize Montana is an opportunity state and we made that a priority when crafting this proposal. Look at the recent changes in Region 4 with some districts going to LE for mule deer. I have a ton of respect for the wildlife managers in R4 going against the grain and doing what is best for the deer in their region. The downside is that it’s going to concentrate even more hunters in the remaining general districts. I’d rather limit hunter effectiveness by shifting season dates and be able to maintain opportunity rather than see LE slowly creep to other areas of the state.

If we don’t make some changes we will either see our mule deer hunting somehow get even worse, or we will end up with LE and less opportunity.

 

[golfer]

So here we are 14 months into this Fwp has opened links and had meeting asking for input. We have been asking telling people if they don’t like it being another idea…..crickets. If you guys wanna see something now is the time

Don’t worry I’m aware how this works. I’m just saying seems like this iteration of the plan generally gives rifle hunters more time in the field. Two months of boom stick pressure is gonna keep critters where they currently are on inaccessible ground.

 

[mtmuley]

Two months of boom stick pressure is gonna a lot of good keeping critters where they currently are on inaccessible ground.

I might be wrong, but I don't see hunting pressure pushing mule deer to private land? Might be just where I hunt them that it isn't an issue. mtmuley

 

[golfer]

I might be wrong, but I don't see hunting pressure pushing mule deer to private land? Might be just where I hunt them that it isn't an issue. mtmuley

So pressure in mountains there along with alfalfa fields down low don’t work together to congregate them down low in folks yards?

 

[BuzzH]

Like it or not, since the accepted narrative from all parties is that MT is an “opportunity state” public opinion of what constitutes “opportunity” is a major factor in setting management policy.

It is what it is and changes that don’t accommodate public opinion will most likely not get implemented.

Wyoming has shorter seasons and more opportunity. Pretty rare day when I can't kill a bull elk any day I want on a general tag, same with deer.

I think what Montana needs to get over, and realize, is that if you have accessible animals, higher bull to cow ratio's, higher buck to doe ratio's etc. on public land you don't need 12 weeks to have a great hunt.

I get it, its fun to hunt more weeks of the year, but there's a steep price to pay for that. I would much rather have shorter deer and elk seasons with higher success, than single digit success and long seasons. Plus, if the deer and elk seasons were shorter, a person tends to do more fall fishing, bird hunting, etc.

I also realize change is hard, but if there is consideration for the resource, it has to change.

Not my State anymore, if opportunity trumps all else, so be it.

 

[mtmuley]

So pressure in mountains there along with alfalfa fields down low don’t work together to congregate them down low in folks yards?

Again. Probably just in my area. I don't see it happen. We have a resident population of mule deer on the valley floor. But, the mountain deer don't tend to be pushed out. Things are different in every region. mtmuley

 

[BuzzH]

Again. Probably just in my area. I don't see it happen. We have a resident population of mule deer on the valley floor. But, the mountain deer don't tend to be pushed out. Things are different in every region. mtmuley

Same where I hunt whitetails and elk, they never see an ag field. Also why bull to cow ratio's are crap, success is single digits, and the average age mule deer killed is probably 1.5-2.5 years old. Long seasons on public land create that. Whitetails can sustain more pressure and still have decent buck to doe ratio's and older age classes.

 

[mtmuley]

Same where I hunt whitetails and elk, they never see an ag field. Also why bull to cow ratio's are crap, success is single digits, and the average age mule deer killed is probably 1.5-2.5 years old. Long seasons on public land create that. Whitetails can sustain more pressure and still have decent buck to doe ratio's and older age classes.

You know where I am. LE has increased the age of deer killed. It's been a huge success story here. I don't feel like public pressure is an issue everywhere. And I see as many whitetails in muley country as I do real deer. mtmuley

 

[corndog1]

I really appreciate everyone's effort on this.

 

[SAJ-99]

You know where I am. LE has increased the age of deer killed. It's been a huge success story here. I don't feel like public pressure is an issue everywhere. And I see as many whitetails in muley country as I do real deer. mtmuley

Just curious if that has changed over the years you have been there? You see more whitetails now than 10, 20, 30yrs ago?

 

[mtmuley]

Just curious if that has changed over the years you have been there? You see more whitetails now than 10, 20, 30yrs ago?

Yes. Definitely. mtmuley

 

[Gerald Martin]

Wyoming has shorter seasons and more opportunity. Pretty rare day when I can't kill a bull elk any day I want on a general tag, same with deer.

I think what Montana needs to get over, and realize, is that if you have accessible animals, higher bull to cow ratio's, higher buck to doe ratio's etc. on public land you don't need 12 weeks to have a great hunt.

I get it, its fun to hunt more weeks of the year, but there's a steep price to pay for that. I would much rather have shorter deer and elk seasons with higher success, than single digit success and long seasons. Plus, if the deer and elk seasons were shorter, a person tends to do more fall fishing, bird hunting, etc.

I also realize change is hard, but if there is consideration for the resource, it has to change.

Not my State anymore, if opportunity trumps all else, so be it.

You’ll get no pushback from me on any of this.

However, I think we both know that asking a majority of MT hunters to buy into this from where their current experience and expectations of MT hunting are currently is probably unrealistic. I wish it were different and folks could catch a vision for what we could have rather than fighting to retain the scraps of opportunity in the form of long seasons.

The paradox of getting less to have more is contrary to human nature when they haven’t experienced what is possible when less is taken.

 

[BuzzH]

You’ll get no pushback from me on any of this.

However, I think we both know that asking a majority of MT hunters to buy into this from where their current experience and expectations of MT hunting are currently is probably unrealistic. I wish it were different and folks could catch a vision for what we could have rather than fighting to retain the scraps of opportunity in the form of long seasons.

The paradox of getting less to have more is contrary to human nature when they haven’t experienced what is possible when less is taken.

Totally with you, however, its sure is a lot more fun hunting elk when you see them everyday instead of a couple times a season.

 

[mtmuley]

Totally with you, however, its sure is a lot more fun hunting elk when you see them everyday instead of a couple times a season.

I feel like that about seeing good mule deer. mtmuley

 

[Gerald Martin]

If

Totally with you, however, its sure is a lot more fun hunting elk when you see them everyday instead of a couple times a season.

Personally, I would hunt half as much for 30% better opportunity to encounter what I am hunting for.

 

[russelldprice]

I tried it a couple times since about 1984ish, you ever heard of a graphlex arrow? Used one and a satellite broadhead to kill this bull in 1985 in Montana:

Shot this one in Montana too with a snuffer broadhead, ever heard of them?

More recently Wyoming:

A Wyoming raghorn that got in my way:

Do you have any old school deer photos you can share with us? I love those old photos. My dad and his friends have a bunch I always look at when I see them

 

[antlerradar]

Again. Probably just in my area. I don't see it happen. We have a resident population of mule deer on the valley floor. But, the mountain deer don't tend to be pushed out. Things are different in every region. mtmuley

Not just your area, Many of the bucks in Eastern MT do not leave the hills until they start to think that they might get lucky around the first week of Nov.