Montana General Season Structure Proposal 3.0

[BuzzH]

Sorry I’m late to the game fellas, i couldn’t make it to the meetings but my buddy always sends me the links to respond to FWP. I feel this proposal tries to change too much too fast and is overly complicated. I feel we should have 3 general mule deer regions in Montana West Central and East. Everyone should have to pick a general region, and that is the only region they can mule deer hunt in. Then our general seasons should close November 15th every year and then offer limited entry hunts for the last 2 weeks of the season and if you draw a limited entry hunt, you can only hunt that region even during the general season. You can then open the general season two weeks earlier for mule deer so we have the same length season. Leave the archery season alone and let the mule deer rifle season go on the same as the end of archery season Wyoming does this and has great success with it.

Not many areas in Wyoming that have concurrent rifle mule deer and archery elk seasons. Not sure how call that a "great success".

Most common season structure in Wyoming is archery season for the month of September, early October rifle mule deer, usually 2 weeks, followed by the last 15-16 days of October for rifle elk.

What works in Wyoming is limiting season length for both archery and rifle hunters. A close second is having a 2 week gap between archery elk and rifle elk where they aren't being run onto private. Another problem with the current Montana seasons are the ability to hunt all species at the same time, if its brown its down has negative consequences.

Shifting seasons around while not reducing season length, season timing, and being able to shoot anything that walks on the same hunt won't do anything positive for Montana.

 

[russelldprice]

Right, heaven forbid if an archery hunter has to compromise a single thing...FFS.

Have you ever even archery hunted?

 

[BuzzH]

Have you ever even archery hunted?

I tried it a couple times since about 1984ish, you ever heard of a graphlex arrow? Used one and a satellite broadhead to kill this bull in 1985 in Montana:

Shot this one in Montana too with a snuffer broadhead, ever heard of them?

More recently Wyoming:

A Wyoming raghorn that got in my way:

 

[Forkyfinder]

Sorry I’m late to the game fellas, i couldn’t make it to the meetings but my buddy always sends me the links to respond to FWP. I feel this proposal tries to change too much too fast and is overly complicated. I feel we should have 3 general mule deer regions in Montana West Central and East. Everyone should have to pick a general region, and that is the only region they can mule deer hunt in. Then our general seasons should close November 15th every year and then offer limited entry hunts for the last 2 weeks of the season and if you draw a limited entry hunt, you can only hunt that region even during the general season. You can then open the general season two weeks earlier for mule deer so we have the same length season. Leave the archery season alone and let the mule deer rifle season go on the same as the end of archery season Wyoming does this and has great success with it.

There is a distinct story going around that FWP isnt open to the idea of LE. Thats not been my experience in correspondence or conversation. Not sure its worth speculating where and how that came from - but suffice to say its untrue.

Limited entry for the last 2/3 weeks has some big drawbacks - mostly for private land outfitting (only 10% of the LE tag holders max are nr) - deer that live on private all year and wander to public rutting would get killed.

Id go engage in the upcoming season setting meetings - and with the commission. Most on HT think this proposal will work - i have my serious doubts about increasing the rifle season length, not capping the NR, moving archery up, and incidental harvest when you can shoot a cow elk, mule deer, black bear, and antelope with a rifle during a lot of october.

 

[russelldprice]

Not many areas in Wyoming that have concurrent rifle mule deer and archery elk seasons. Not sure how call that a "great success".

Most common season structure in Wyoming is archery season for the month of September, early October rifle mule deer, usually 2 weeks, followed by the last 15-16 days of October for rifle elk.

What works in Wyoming is limiting season length for both archery and rifle hunters. A close second is having a 2 week gap between archery elk and rifle elk where they aren't being run onto private. Another problem with the current Montana seasons are the ability to hunt all species at the same time, if its brown its down has negative consequences.

Shifting seasons around while not reducing season length, season timing, and being able to shoot anything that walks on the same hunt won't do anything positive for Montana.

Reagon H which is 8 different hunting districts in Wyoming have a rifle mule deer hunt from September 15th-mid October and region G which I believe is 4 hunting districts is the same. The archery elk season starts September 1st and goes to September 30. There are many other areas in Wyoming that also have this timeframe. All the areas I’ve looked at in Wyoming for elk hunting never had a two week gap Region H and Region G areas start the day after archery season ends, which is September 26 through September 30 for rifle Elk.

I agree with what you are saying but trying to change so much so fast at one time isn’t going to work, Montana is an opportunity state and that’s what the majority of the people want. If we can make small changes, that would give us a better opportunity to gather information on what’s going on in the regions. I think the people would agree with that more than completely turning the entire Hunting seasons upside down. I would love to see horn restrictions go into effect as well.

 

[cgasner1]

Sorry I’m late to the game fellas, i couldn’t make it to the meetings but my buddy always sends me the links to respond to FWP. I feel this proposal tries to change too much too fast and is overly complicated. I feel we should have 3 general mule deer regions in Montana West Central and East. Everyone should have to pick a general region, and that is the only region they can mule deer hunt in. Then our general seasons should close November 15th every year and then offer limited entry hunts for the last 2 weeks of the season and if you draw a limited entry hunt, you can only hunt that region even during the general season. You can then open the general season two weeks earlier for mule deer so we have the same length season. Leave the archery season alone and let the mule deer rifle season go on the same as the end of archery season Wyoming does this and has great success with it.

Your not late to the game sounds great get going with it

 

[russelldprice]

I tried it a couple times since about 1984ish, you ever heard of a graphlex arrow? Used one and a satellite broadhead to kill this bull in 1985 in Montana:

Shot this one in Montana too with a snuffer broadhead, ever heard of them?

More recently Wyoming:

A Wyoming raghorn that got in my way:

Those are some awesome photos. Appreciate you sharing them! I have never heard of a Graphlex arrow as I started archery hunting in 2001 and they were probably before my time.

 

[russelldprice]

Your not late to the game sounds great get going with it

How do I get going with it? Not sure what this means.

 

[cgasner1]

There is a distinct story going around that FWP isnt open to the idea of LE. Thats not been my experience in correspondence or conversation. Not sure its worth speculating where and how that came from - but suffice to say its untrue.

Limited entry for the last 2/3 weeks has some big drawbacks - mostly for private land outfitting (only 10% of the LE tag holders max are nr) - deer that live on private all year and wander to public rutting would get killed.

Id go engage in the upcoming season setting meetings - and with the commission. Most on HT think this proposal will work - i have my serious doubts about increasing the rifle season length, not capping the NR, moving archery up, and incidental harvest when you can shoot a cow elk, mule deer, black bear, and antelope with a rifle during a lot of october.

I’m sure the guy that brought up doing a point restriction feels the same way. I bet the bio nodded and agreed and they wrote it down. Fwp wasn’t gonna try and change anyone’s mind that night they wanted people talking and that’s what they got. Even if someone brought up the best idea ever in 5 that night without a big unified push I think the idea would die in that room.

 

[russelldprice]

How do I get going with it? Not sure what this means.

I ask because I tore my hamstring 3 weeks ago and I’ve been off work for the last three weeks and will probably be off for two more weeks as well and I have the time right now and I’ve been wanting to get more involved

 

[Forkyfinder]

I’m sure the guy that brought up doing a point restriction feels the same way. I bet the bio nodded and agreed and they wrote it down. Fwp wasn’t gonna try and change anyone’s mind that night they wanted people talking and that’s what they got. Even if someone brought up the best idea ever in 5 that night without a big unified push I think the idea would die in that room.

Thats not all of the correspondence.

 

[cgasner1]

I ask because I tore my hamstring 3 weeks ago and I’ve been off work for the last three weeks and will probably be off for two more weeks as well and I have the time right now and I’ve been wanting to get more involved

If I was starting at the beginning this far into it I’d try and get some guys together preferably with some experience across the state. Set a plan of what you wanna see and go to Facebook and try and win the masses there

 

[Gerald Martin]

Thats not all of the correspondence.

When is the public reveal of the shortened general season/LE plan?

 

[mtmuley]

Set a plan of what you wanna see and go to Facebook and try and win the masses there

Not on FB but from what I understand it's not a great place to get solid info on this particular issue. mtmuley

 

[cgasner1]

When is the public reveal of the shortened general season/LE plan?

I doubt there is anything since if there was it should include all of the ngos and bios and probably some public opinion….. or at least that’s what we got told if you look back a couple pages which at this point you would think people on here would have seen

 

[cgasner1]

Not on FB but from what I understand it's not a great place to get solid info on this particular issue. mtmuley

If you can win Facebook you’d win Fwp

 

[BuzzH]

Reagon H which is 8 different hunting districts in Wyoming have a rifle mule deer hunt from September 15th-mid October and region G which I believe is 4 hunting districts is the same. The archery elk season starts September 1st and goes to September 30. There are many other areas in Wyoming that also have this timeframe. All the areas I’ve looked at in Wyoming for elk hunting never had a two week gap Region H and Region G areas start the day after archery season ends, which is September 26 through September 30 for rifle Elk.

I agree with what you are saying but trying to change so much so fast at one time isn’t going to work, Montana is an opportunity state and that’s what the majority of the people want. If we can make small changes, that would give us a better opportunity to gather information on what’s going on in the regions. I think the people would agree with that more than completely turning the entire Hunting seasons upside down. I would love to see horn restrictions go into effect as well.

I figured the West side of the state was where you were referring to, but even then season lengths are much shorter for both archery and rifle all across our general areas. Not having concurrent rifle seasons for elk/deer forces hunters to choose where to spend their available time and reduces pressure on both elk and deer. Also shorter archery seasons keep elk from being pressured onto private.

IMO, of only hunting Montana for the past 43 consecutive years, is that season length is brutal. Animals can only dodge hunters for so long...and 12 weeks of brown it's down makes it very tough to survive. If not for private, national parks, and other places off limits to hunting there wouldn't be much left. Used to be the more inaccessible, harder to reach areas were a sanctuary...not anymore. Too much better gear, better rifles, better bows and more serious hard core hunters that go anywhere.

It's a giant shit sandwich if you're a deer or elk in Montana...you can't stay lucky for 12 weeks.

Also the time for small changes was about 20 years ago, it's now time to make more significant changes, IMO.

 

[mtmuley]

If you can win Facebook you’d win Fwp

Sounds like part of the problem. mtmuley

 

[cgasner1]

Sounds like part of the problem. mtmuley

It’s a major part of the problem. The tide needs to turn to where the people that want the party to roll on are the minority. I think we are almost there but a few are still very loud and Facebook is a megaphone for it

 

[Gerald Martin]

Sounds like part of the problem. mtmuley

Like it or not, since the accepted narrative from all parties is that MT is an “opportunity state” public opinion of what constitutes “opportunity” is a major factor in setting management policy.

It is what it is and changes that don’t accommodate public opinion will most likely not get implemented.