Gerald Martin
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2009
- Messages
- 8,405
Morale and performance will stay the same until the beatings improve.
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Harvest data 100% affects management, which affects quality. They can see sales and make phone calls and use check stations, but the sample size is far too small to be meaningful to manage for the population of hunters that we now have. There are multiple places I hunt where I donāt have to drive by a check station and the last two years Iāve driven past a check station late at night when theyāre closed with an elk in the back so they havenāt counted those animals and Iāve never gotten a phone call for the survey. Harvest data tells them where hunters are hunting (to manage for overcrowding), and where animals are being killed plus sex and age class (manage the number of tags for each sex per unit). Changing the management of any animal without this data is an educated guess in the best case scenario.
This has been discussed at length on other threads. More data is always better, but harvest data has little impact on management decisions (tag numbers). It old be great to have it, as it could be used as a confirmation of other data, but it is not the āmagic bullet of managementā that many think.Harvest data 100% affects management, which affects quality. They can see sales and make phone calls and use check stations, but the sample size is far too small to be meaningful to manage for the population of hunters that we now have. There are multiple places I hunt where I donāt have to drive by a check station and the last two years Iāve driven past a check station late at night when theyāre closed with an elk in the back so they havenāt counted those animals and Iāve never gotten a phone call for the survey. Harvest data tells them where hunters are hunting (to manage for overcrowding), and where animals are being killed plus sex and age class (manage the number of tags for each sex per unit). Changing the management of any animal without this data is an educated guess in the best case scenario.
Iām sure you have read the Wyoming JCRās right? Thatās what we want in Montana. Use good data to manage the resource. It works in other states. What Montana is doing (or isnāt doing) is not working. They would understand that if they had any metric for hunter days per harvest on accessible lands. That has increased substantially. I call it pulling a rabbit out of your hat to beat the odds. Well Iām out of rabbits.This has been discussed at length on other threads. More data is always better, but harvest data has little impact on management decisions (tag numbers). It old be great to have it, as it could be used as a confirmation of other data, but it is not the āmagic bullet of managementā that many think.
Agree. My criticism of MT has mostly been on the side of population counts. That is the metric that matters most in the management formula and for some (maybe a lot, in some years) of regions they do a piss poor job of making sure they are completed and accurate. But also, they don't release a lot of the data they collect. You will occasionally see references to bull/cow or buck/doe ratios (see 313 drama) but good luck finding where they store it on the website. They are typically in briefs written on units and you have to do a lot of digging.Iām sure you have read the Wyoming JCRās right? Thatās what we want in Montana. Use good data to manage the resource. It works in other states. What Montana is doing (or isnāt doing) is not working. They would understand that if they had any metric for hunter days per harvest on accessible lands. That has increased substantially. I call it pulling a rabbit out of your hat to beat the odds. Well Iām out of rabbits.
WRONG!The only people consistently killing elk are hunting private land, limited tags, poaching (filling their kids tags, party hunting, etc), or hunt 30/40 days of the liberal season. There is a select few that kill the 3-5% of bulls on public land, we all get lucky sometimes. A person should have an opportunity at getting a shot on a bull after 7/10 days of hard hunting. Not some bullshit of hunting 40 to 50 days over multiple sessions. Montana hunter per days of harvest are really screwed up. Secondly where in the hell are the game wardens? I never get checked, what the #*^@#* are thy doing? In other states I usually can kill an elk in 5/10 days. It doesnāt take 6 months. I see why people give up and start fishing, drinking beer, or golf or something. I run across game wardens in other states.
He said there are a select few. You are one of the chosen ones!! I donāt think his statement is that far off for the average dude. I have been blessed to be in the right place and right time to kill a bunch of greenhorn sized bulls but I just completed 2 years of 40 plus days of hunting without an opportunity. Itās toughWRONG!
I think he is completely full of shit.He said there are a select few. You are one of the chosen ones!! I donāt think his statement is that far off for the average dude. I have been blessed to be in the right place and right time to kill a bunch of greenhorn sized bulls but I just completed 2 years of 40 plus days of hunting without an opportunity. Itās tough
What part? I think there is a lack of game wardens. Donāt necessarily think itās their fault. I donāt know about consistently killing elk on public but killing a mature one seems pretty hard for me.I think he is completely full of shit.
I agree with the game warden part. I don't know how to fix it. It was never easy to kill mature bulls on public in otc units and it never will be. Killing elk consistently on public doesn't take a rocket scientist degree, I know quite a few people who do it. If you can't find an elk in 40 to 50 days maybe try different tactics, different places, or just admit that you are a golfer, and not a hunter, but don't call people who figure it out poachers, lucky, or party hunters.What part? I think there is a lack of game wardens. Donāt necessarily think itās their fault. I donāt know about consistently killing elk on public but killing a mature one seems pretty hard for me.
AgreedI agree with the game warden part. I don't know how to fix it. It was never easy to kill mature bulls on public in otc units and it never will be. Killing elk consistently on public doesn't take a rocket scientist degree, I know quite a few people who do it. If you can't find an elk in 40 to 50 days maybe try different tactics, different places, or just admit that you are a golfer, and not a hunter, but don't call people who figure it out poachers, lucky, or party hunters.
I agree with the game warden part. I don't know how to fix it. It was never easy to kill mature bulls on public in otc units and it never will be. Killing elk consistently on public doesn't take a rocket scientist degree, I know quite a few people who do it. If you can't find an elk in 40 to 50 days maybe try different tactics, different places, or just admit that you are a golfer, and not a hunter, but don't call people who figure it out poachers, lucky, or party hunters.
On what accounts am I full of shit? Iāve taken 6 elk in nine years in Montana, three on limited tags, and didnāt hunt in 2021. Iāve got about 19 legal elk in about 25 years of elk hunting. I feel that Iām pretty fortunate, but in my short years of hunting up here itās gotten tougher on public land. I know several good successful elk hunters that struggle on filling tags or even seeing elk on public lands. I remember that region 1 has about 500 plus hunter days per harvest. So what part am I full of shit. In Colorado I could kill an bull in 3/5 days of hunting. Iāve worked a lot in WY and never elk hunted there, but itās head and shoulders above Montana. Iāve been checked twice by game wardens in Montana and one of them didnāt even bother checking a limited 799 tag, like wtf. People have multiple whole elk in back on trucks that were killed on private property. The check station data at the check stations is about 3% on bulls, so guess everything is okay, bc me and you and dickhead Doug can fill our elk tags most every year.I think he is completely full of shit.