Montana 2025 Legislative Session

[cgasner1]

Is this cow tag availability the case statewide for R and NT?

I have researched the B tag draw statistics and I am not finding that to be the case, but I may be missing something.

As a nr if you got a couple grand laying around im pretty sure we can get you a cow before new year.

 

[bigsky2]

Go to 1:13:08 for an example of how the current commission isn’t going to be willing to set permit numbers at a low level to improve the quality of the hunting experience. This is from the most recent commission meeting.

 

[Carnage2011]

My opionon cwd probably doesn't exist in my neck of woods. If herds were managed. But it was basically high fence.

There is nothing FWP could do about Kennedy allowing zero hunting and holding 1,000+ whitetails in a relatively small area.

 

[Deleted member 56631]

I cow elk hunt on public land that sell $500+ cow elk hunts. Easy google search, enjoy

 

[Forkyfinder]

Go to 1:13:08 for an example of how the current commission isn’t going to be willing to set permit numbers at a low level to improve the quality of the hunting experience. This is from the most recent commission meeting.

@bigsky2 - does the comission have the responsibility of dealing with numbers/hunting pressure, or is it solely the department?

 

[shoots-straight]

I would like to see a non transferable “private land only” cow tag especially in the LE elk units.

You can buy them over the counter for many hunting regions in Montana. Hunters go for 6 months long.

 

[Deleted member 16864]

Chronic Wasting Disease Still Confounds Researchers. But Some Important New Clues Have Emerged

Here's what hunters and wildlife managers need to know about chronic wasting disease in 2025.

www.outdoorlife.com

Pay attention to the Rocky mountain lab study. Sounds promising cwd can't and won't make the jump to people.

Which makes sense, since it hasn't in over 50 years.

I certainly hope it can’t jump to humans, but there has been evidence that it can/has jumped to primates.

Chronic Wasting Disease

myhealth.alberta.ca

 

[cgasner1]

I certainly hope it can’t jump to humans, but there has been evidence that it can/has jumped to primates.

Chronic Wasting Disease

myhealth.alberta.ca

A few of us may be in danger then

 

[BuzzH]

I certainly hope it can’t jump to humans, but there has been evidence that it can/has jumped to primates.

Chronic Wasting Disease

myhealth.alberta.ca

Pretty sure the 2017 study cited regarding the monkeys was suspect.

 

[bigsky2]

@bigsky2 - does the comission have the responsibility of dealing with numbers/hunting pressure, or is it solely the department?

That is a good question. I would hope they would take those factors into consideration. I would disagree with Commissioner Tabor in that I do think taking hunter pressure, animal distribution, etc should factor into the department’s quota recommendations.

 

[Forkyfinder]

That is a good question. I would hope they would take those factors into consideration. I would disagree with Commissioner Tabor in that I do think taking hunter pressure, animal distribution, etc should factor into the department’s quota recommendations.

It would seem the reccomendations are meaningless if they arent considered.

 

[brockel]

Things like this are the issue. Our wildlife should be legislated fwp biologist should be calling the shots and they can’t. Im happy this thread is here for people to see everything but also disgusted it has to exist

If fwp biologists could call the shots we’d still be killing mule deer does on public in region 7 and you’d never have this proposal even have a small chance of becoming true

 

[Eric Albus]

all of us (sportsmen, outfitters, landowners) all agree there is a problem……it is coming to a viable solution that’s the problem. A lot of folks simply do not want any changes that affect “ME”.

It disgusts me to no end.

I the other outfitters in R 6 are all in agreement, if it’s do nothing or go to permits, go LE permits. This is ppl making an f-ing living real time $hit, willing to give up for the resource. Anybody wonder why I’m disgusted when ppl say, “well I don’t want to give up rut hunting or have to make a choice wt/md, or “I hunt more than one region”….. PUKE…it’s all about “ME”

Do what’s right by the wildlife….everything else will fall in place.

 

[Ben Lamb]

all of us (sportsmen, outfitters, landowners) all agree there is a problem……it is coming to a viable solution that’s the problem. A lot of folks simply do not want any changes that affect “ME”.

It disgusts me to no end.

I the other outfitters in R 6 are all in agreement, if it’s do nothing or go to permits, go LE permits. This is ppl making an f-ing living real time $hit, willing to give up for the resource. Anybody wonder why I’m disgusted when ppl say, “well I don’t want to give up rut hunting or have to make a choice wt/md, or “I hunt more than one region”….. PUKE…it’s all about “ME”

Do what’s right by the wildlife….everything else will fall in place.

Montana Season Setting Proposal

Opportunity for All

mtseasonproposal.blog

 

[Eric Albus]

Montana Season Setting Proposal

Opportunity for All

mtseasonproposal.blog

Well done sir.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Well done sir.

That ain't me. That's you, @bigsky2, @cgasner1, @antlerradar, @MTTW, @sclancy27, @Gerald Martin, @Schaaf, @Big Shooter & Hodges stepping up and coming up with some compromise and thoughtful approaches to a complex issue.

 

[antlerradar]

Doing away with rut hunting is a popular idea but CWD is the giant elephant in the room such that down the road, it might not be a good idea. LE is similar. Is there a state that does nothing but LE for mule deer? I think most have at least some general opportunity in areas. And states/provinces that have both CWD and LE in the same place tend to have some of the higher prevalence rates. Alberta is one example. I think even bios/managers that want to see limitations or try some of these ideas are restricted because of the looming or present threat of CWD.

I am not convinced that hunting the rut is the best way to deal with CWD. I understand that many are convinced that reducing the number of older bucks is the best way to slow the spread of CWD. Arguing agents that is above my pay grade. I am just not convinced that hunting the rut is the best way to reduce the number of older bucks. This is why.
The theory is that hunting the rut will allow hunters to be more selective and the hunters will select older bucks. In reality hunters do not select for age, they select for antler size. The bucks with top end antler potential are selected at age two or three and the bucks with poor potential are living to an older age because hunters are passing them up and taking a younger buck with better antlers. In the last twenty years I have only seen two top end bucks that lived to old age, both of them likely spent most of hunting season on land private land with zero hunters. On the other end of the scale I have seen many older bucks with poor antlers. Just this spring I found the deadhead of one of those bucks just off of heavily hunted public land. That buck was likely passed on by hunters many times. By allowing hunters to be selective we could be just reducing the age of the better bucks and increasing the age of the poorer bucks on public land. On most private land the better bucks will sill be shot at a younger age and the poor bucks will die of natural causes.
This brings me to the second reason why hunting the rut many not be the best time to deal with CWD. Access to the bucks. The number one issue when deciding on a CWD plan is access. The best CWD plan for taking out the older bucks is the one where the orange army has the best access possible. Access trumps everything else. Nearly fifty years ago when I first started hunting the current season was well timed. Back then when the bucks headed to the foothills and river bottoms to be with the does during November, access was usually a "how is it going" and a hand shake. Now that private land is owned by billionaires or leased for hunting. The orange army is not getting access to that private land back. Today the Orange army will have better access to bucks during October than in November.
Antler point restrictions that protect yearling bucks will have the most impact on reducing the number of older bucks. Three point or more combined with a any buck with a 15 inch spread would put 90% of yearling bucks off limits and nearly all two year old bucks on the hit list. The problem with the current approach is that we are relying on trophy hunters to reduce the number of older bucks. There is just not that many dead older bucks to be gained with trophy hunters. Trophy hunters are going to hold out for a buck with antlers the size that they want regardless of the season timing. If they are unable to find that buck, they don't fill the tag or maybe fill the tag on a small buck the last day if they still have freezer space. Antler point restrictions will on the other hand will force all the hunters that are willing to shoot a yearling forky to hold out for an older buck and these hunters will be happy to shoot older bucks that do not have big antlers. Antler point restrictions are the way to go if you want to reduce the number of older bucks.
Back when CWD was first getting started, a FWP biologist told me, " we have to do something". I agree. The problem is now that CWD is here and spreading, if the solution is to continue with essentially the same regulations that have been in place since the 70's we are actualy doing nothing.

 

[Deleted member 16864]

I am not convinced that hunting the rut is the best way to deal with CWD. I understand that many are convinced that reducing the number of older bucks is the best way to slow the spread of CWD. Arguing agents that is above my pay grade. I am just not convinced that hunting the rut is the best way to reduce the number of older bucks, This is why.
The theory is that hunting the rut will allow hunters to be more selective and the hunters will select older bucks. In reality hunters do not select for age, they select for antler size. The bucks with top end antler potential are selected at age two or three and the bucks with poor potential are living to an older age because hunters are passing them up and taking a younger buck with better antlers. In the last twenty years I have only seen two top end bucks that lived to old age, both of them likely spent most of hunting season on land private land with zero hunters. On the other end of the scale I have seen many older bucks with poor antlers. Just this spring I found the deadhead of one of those bucks just off of heavily hunted public land. That buck was likely passed on by hunters many times. By allowing hunters to be selective we could be just reducing the age of the better bucks and increasing the age of the poorer bucks on public land. On most private land the better bucks will sill be shot at a younger age and the poor bucks will die of natural causes.
This brings me to the second reason why hunting the rut many not be the best time to deal with CWD. Access to the bucks. The number one issue when deciding on a CWD plan is access. The best CWD plan for taking out the older bucks is the one where the orange army has the best access possible. Access trumps everything else. Nearly fifty years ago when I first started hunting the current season was well timed. Back then when the bucks headed to the foothills and river bottoms to be with the does during November, access was usually a "how is it going" and a hand shake. Now that private land is owned by billionaires or leased for hunting. The orange army is not getting access to that private land back. Today the Orange army will have better access to bucks during October than in November.
Antler point restrictions that protect yearling bucks will have the most impact on reducing the number of older bucks. Three point or more combined with a any buck with a 15 inch spread would put 90% of yearling bucks off limits and nearly all two year old bucks on the hit list. The problem with the current approach is that we are relying on trophy hunters to reduce the number of older bucks. There is just not that many dead older bucks to be gained with trophy hunters. Trophy hunters are going to hold out for a buck with antlers the size that they want regardless of the season timing. If they are unable to find that buck, they don't fill the tag or maybe fill the tag on a small buck the last day if they still have freezer space. Antler point restrictions will on the other hand will force all the hunters that are willing to shoot a yearling forky to hold out for an older buck and these hunters will be happy to shoot older bucks that do not have big antlers. Antler point restrictions are the way to go if you want to reduce the number of older bucks.
Back when CWD was first getting started, a FWP biologist told me, " we have to do something". I agree. The problem is now that CWD is here and spreading, if the solution is to continue with essentially the same regulations that have been in place since the 70's we are actualy doing nothing.

Kudos for using proper punctuation.

 

[antlerradar]

Kudos for using proper punctuation.

If I did, it is a miracle. English is not my strong subject.

 

[BuzzH]

I am not convinced that hunting the rut is the best way to deal with CWD. I understand that many are convinced that reducing the number of older bucks is the best way to slow the spread of CWD. Arguing agents that is above my pay grade. I am just not convinced that hunting the rut is the best way to reduce the number of older bucks. This is why.
The theory is that hunting the rut will allow hunters to be more selective and the hunters will select older bucks. In reality hunters do not select for age, they select for antler size. The bucks with top end antler potential are selected at age two or three and the bucks with poor potential are living to an older age because hunters are passing them up and taking a younger buck with better antlers. In the last twenty years I have only seen two top end bucks that lived to old age, both of them likely spent most of hunting season on land private land with zero hunters. On the other end of the scale I have seen many older bucks with poor antlers. Just this spring I found the deadhead of one of those bucks just off of heavily hunted public land. That buck was likely passed on by hunters many times. By allowing hunters to be selective we could be just reducing the age of the better bucks and increasing the age of the poorer bucks on public land. On most private land the better bucks will sill be shot at a younger age and the poor bucks will die of natural causes.
This brings me to the second reason why hunting the rut many not be the best time to deal with CWD. Access to the bucks. The number one issue when deciding on a CWD plan is access. The best CWD plan for taking out the older bucks is the one where the orange army has the best access possible. Access trumps everything else. Nearly fifty years ago when I first started hunting the current season was well timed. Back then when the bucks headed to the foothills and river bottoms to be with the does during November, access was usually a "how is it going" and a hand shake. Now that private land is owned by billionaires or leased for hunting. The orange army is not getting access to that private land back. Today the Orange army will have better access to bucks during October than in November.
Antler point restrictions that protect yearling bucks will have the most impact on reducing the number of older bucks. Three point or more combined with a any buck with a 15 inch spread would put 90% of yearling bucks off limits and nearly all two year old bucks on the hit list. The problem with the current approach is that we are relying on trophy hunters to reduce the number of older bucks. There is just not that many dead older bucks to be gained with trophy hunters. Trophy hunters are going to hold out for a buck with antlers the size that they want regardless of the season timing. If they are unable to find that buck, they don't fill the tag or maybe fill the tag on a small buck the last day if they still have freezer space. Antler point restrictions will on the other hand will force all the hunters that are willing to shoot a yearling forky to hold out for an older buck and these hunters will be happy to shoot older bucks that do not have big antlers. Antler point restrictions are the way to go if you want to reduce the number of older bucks.
Back when CWD was first getting started, a FWP biologist told me, " we have to do something". I agree. The problem is now that CWD is here and spreading, if the solution is to continue with essentially the same regulations that have been in place since the 70's we are actualy doing nothing.

I'm still not convinced you can shoot your way out of cwd.