Minnesota Shotgun Zone going to Rifle

[SFC B]

I could make that work...

YOU may say that........at least 99% of archery hunters would hemorrhage from every orifice if it was a possibility.

 

[Gellar]

Some of you guys are naive on the complexities of managing a deer herd. Biologists (hopefully) have a herd size they are comfortable with that will give everyone a chance to be happy. People want different things for different reasons. Some people want to kill a doe, some people trophies, some people only want to archery hunt, and some people don’t want deer (insurance companies and farm bureau) at all.

 

[Nick87]

Some of you guys are naive on the complexities of managing a deer herd. Biologists (hopefully) have a herd size they are comfortable with that will give everyone a chance to be happy. People want different things for different reasons. Some people want to kill a doe, some people trophies, some people only want to archery hunt, and some people don’t want deer (insurance companies and farm bureau) at all.

And there are ways to provide oppurtunity for guys who want to fill a tag with any deer while keeping age class and buck to doe ratios in check, for guys who want antlers. Nobody ever wants to give an inch on what they want or how they think it should be. Thats the problem.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I know what the hunting community needs - more obsession with score, age, and antler size. That will SURE keep the hunting heritage around - i think every study ever has concluded its only acceptable to the general non hunting public if we "pass" animals we think are too unideal for antlers. Besides - if the deer can stay put during the season then the plebs next door (esp on public) have no chance at killing one and can better comidify and sell the access.

The silver bullet to all of huntings problems (you know, the big issues, like the deer i see arent big enough) is ending the rut hunt.

 

[Nick87]

Why not make just one 2 week season in early November for EVERY weapon?

Also I cant think of a worse idea. But im sure someone would love it as long as they don't lose there rut hunting. Dont get me wrong do I bowhunt during the rut? Absolutely. Would I be upset if we couldn't hunt it? Not necessarily.

 

[SFC B]

Also I cant think of a worse idea. But im sure someone would love it as long as they don't lose there rut hunting. Dont get me wrong do I bowhunt during the rut? Absolutely. Would I be upset if we couldn't hunt it? Not necessarily.

I typed that wrong....meant it to say October....no rut hunts for anyone......wouldn't be that big a deal to me, but again the uproar would be bow hunters.

 

[Bowhuntrben]

We tried last year. Same senator tried to build an NFL stadium to move the Chicago Bears.

So you're saying there's still a chance?

 

[Gellar]

So you're saying there's still a chance?

The guy lost all credibility after that stunt with the Chicago bears. no one wants them.

 

[Bowhuntrben]

Went and found a video of the meeting this morning. Definitely some misinformation/exaggeration being spread.

First guy questioned people "shooting at a deer up on a hill" and wondering where those bullets are going to go. Again, this is training. A skyline shot is dangerous with a shotgun just as much as with a rifle and shouldn't be taken.

First guy talks of shotguns with scopes killing effectively at 200+ yards. Not to say this can't happen, but that's a damn good shot with a shotgun. I wouldn't call it the "norm". I've heard stories of my uncles in the olden days and some shots made with a bead at long distances..doesn't mean it's common or should be done.

Second guy said a person could set up a tower blind and have an effective range of almost a mile in any direction. "1000 yard shots aren't uncommon anymore." Again, I'm sure there are a select few who might take a long shot, but it would not be common. And this isn't the west. At least where I'm seeing deer long distance during hunting season, they are typically on the move and not just standing around waiting for you to set up.

I think this is a lesson for you western folks to get your crap together and learn to shoot. Us midwesterners will be making 1000 yard shots on running deer regularly.

 

[Gellar]

Went and found a video of the meeting this morning. Definitely some misinformation/exaggeration being spread.

First guy questioned people "shooting at a deer up on a hill" and wondering where those bullets are going to go. Again, this is training. A skyline shot is dangerous with a shotgun just as much as with a rifle and shouldn't be taken.

First guy talks of shotguns with scopes killing effectively at 200+ yards. Not to say this can't happen, but that's a damn good shot with a shotgun. I wouldn't call it the "norm". I've heard stories of my uncles in the olden days and some shots made with a bead at long distances..doesn't mean it's common or should be done.

Second guy said a person could set up a tower blind and have an effective range of almost a mile in any direction. "1000 yard shots aren't uncommon anymore." Again, I'm sure there are a select few who might take a long shot, but it would not be common. And this isn't the west. At least where I'm seeing deer long distance during hunting season, they are typically on the move and not just standing around waiting for you to set up.

I think this is a lesson for you western folks to get your crap together and learn to shoot. Us midwesterners will be making 1000 yard shots on running deer regularly.

I would agree with the safety aspect being educational and about the shot distance not changing. We have been able to use straight wall rifle cartridges for several years now (not apples to apples but you get the jist of the argument) and I would say our group is 50:50 on rifles vs shotguns. The average shot distance is probably still 50-75 yards. The terrain of southeast Minnesota is very similar to where I hunt only 20 miles south of the border. It is going to limit the shot distance and while the shot distance may increase slightly with rifles it’s going to take a very specific set up to enable any sort of long distance shooting.

 

[mntatonka]

Shit, most of the places people hunt in the southeast can't even SEE 1000 yards, let alone shoot that far. And if they can see that far, it's usually a neighbors land anyway.

 

[Candiru]

I think of the friends of mine whose kids started hunting in recent years and they had a number of deer they had to finish off, track, or even lost after being hit by slugs. I am not saying things would have been perfect with rifles, but wouldn't it have been much better if they could have started the kids off with 243's?

I have seen a few of these guys on social media as well. Claiming slugs guns don't kick that bad? Or, advocating for AR pistols(legal). Being able to use a 308 AR pistol with a 20 round magazine but not being able to use my 308 bolt action is nuts.

I have been waiting for this for quite a while. The county I hunt in is sticking with the current rules (shotgun). I am think of getting an AR pistol. It will make the same hole and sound the same as my 308 rifle (both suppressed) and where I hunt nobody will see me shoot. As of now that county seems to be an outlier, so maybe I will hold off. My neighbors with maybe one exception practice selective harvest. They are not shooting everything or every buck. I don't think we give each other enough credit. "Every small buck out there will get shot" seems to be a common theme among the opposition.

 

[Forkyfinder]

"Every small buck out there will get shot" seems to be a common theme among the opposition.

Even if they are - as it seems to be what all the lemmings say it is where i live - im not sure why anyone cares if the biologists say its sustainable.

What isnt sustainable (to hunting long term) is hunting being solely focused on antler size.

 

[MNElkNut]

Attended our local meeting. Very well thought out points in favor of rifles. The DNR has multiple levels to pull to manage populations. I see it as a great deal and look forward to toting a 7-08 out to the stand!

 

[Bonasababy]

Are the firearm seasons going to have the same days to hunt and dates that were originally slug only?

No change in seasons are proposed.

Brief history on this one:

The original shotgun only restriction here was not taken for safety reasons, but as a means to limit harvest.

There is NO evidence that shotgun only restrictions improve safety.

And of course with rifled barrels and sabot slugs and scopes with drop estimation, a shotgun can be very accurate out to 150 yards or so.

Leg. change proposers wanted to abolish the restriction everywhere but to get it past opposition, they came up with the plan to allow counties to determine if they wanted to opt in/keep the restriction.

MN DNR argued against that, FWIW ....claiming a hodgepdge of allowed vs not allowed would be confusing for hunters and difficult to enforce.

 

[Bonasababy]

I agree, too many people that are not informed with a chance to persuade a decision. One county could have one individual who is extremely vocal using inaccurate information, anecdotal experiences, and hypothetical situations. Data and evidence should decide, not emotions. The state wanted to save grace, "the county can decide, we just gave the option".

Correction...the legislature wanted this...the state (DNR) position was to avoid different regs by county.

 

[Bonasababy]

Rifles during the rut are garbage. I don’t care where you live. Step in the wrong direction imo

Popular opinion...from bowhunters!

Lots of bad info taken as fact on the topic.

 

[Bonasababy]

I tend to disagree. Make it too easy and it dwindles. Hunting is supposed to be a challenge with a slight chance of a reward if you do things right and get a little lucky. I don’t think the change from shotguns to rifles is going to be the deal-breaker, though. My Savage 220 really isn’t much different than a rifle at ranges most kids will be shooting.

Same with my Ithaca Deerslayer. Fairly rural where I live but limited to shotguns at home. I have no issue using them where rifles are allowed where I typically shoot deer. Good out to 150 or so and most of my shots are within 60.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Popular opinion...from bowhunters!

Lots of bad info taken as fact on the topic.

No no.

Thats usually from a western R who have killed a pile of deer, and are disappointed that shooting a 3.5 YO 150" MD is as good as it gets.

as it should. Hunting has to compete with other sports, and things like video games. It needs to be easy and accessible for the vast majority, or it dwindles.

Whats funny is the laugh reacts to this - while guided "hunts" that are shooting glorified farm animals get "liked" up all over media.