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I don’t really watch hunting shows. I shoot animals, and know people that shoot animals. None of us have ever worried about what a metal can full of water will do.
Meat Damage vs. Killing Power
- Thread starter OhHeyThereBen
- Start date
I don’t really watch hunting shows. I shoot animals, and know people that shoot animals. None of us have ever worried about what a metal can full of water will do.
bluespruce
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That photo is pretty similar to my experience with that same combination. Very accurate but overly destructive.
ImBillT
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I’ve hit two animals not so right with Bergers and was highly impressed with Berger performance. I’ve shot other bullets. I’ve seen friends and family shoot other bullets. I’ve not seen another bullet act like a Berger. I think they are unique. I haven’t lost much meat using them, but if the things that happened in the chest cavity made it to the backside shoulder you would. The front shoulder of an elk might be thick enough for you to lose some if you hit him with a small enough Berger moving fast enough. I try to shoot behind the shoulder, and haven’t shot anything small and broadside with a Berger. I’m sure a whitetail hit broadside with the right(or wrong) Berger would make a serious mess.
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ImBillT
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As far as hydrostatic shock, I’m not really certain what EXACTLY causes the temporary stretch cavity in ballistic gelatin or an animal. I don’t really think of that as “hydrostatic shock” but maybe it is. I do think that anytime the temporary stretch cavity reaches the spinal cord or autonomic nerve plexus, that it results in a pretty instant kill that many would claim was the result of “hydrostatic shock”. Maybe that’s what it should be called, maybe not.
I just shoot for a double lung when possible. It’s a big target and it bleeds the meat fairly well. You don’t get many instant bang-flops with a double lung no matter what bullet you shoot. The bullet that cuts the most capillaries will kill them the fastest with that shot though.
I just shoot for a double lung when possible. It’s a big target and it bleeds the meat fairly well. You don’t get many instant bang-flops with a double lung no matter what bullet you shoot. The bullet that cuts the most capillaries will kill them the fastest with that shot though.
HandgunHunter
Well-known member
For whatever it’s worth....I probably hunt with the most underpowered guns of the group.
I want expanding bullets that open in a controlled manor and provide and exit. I want it to work if it hits the shoulder or the lungs....well because stuff happens. I have been fortunate the past few years to not have to track any animals past a 100 yards.
I also want a wide velocity window from minimum to maximum of where the bullet works.
I don’t think any one brand provides it all with each caliber. I think there are some bullets from each line that shine.
this is the exit on a doe Lope at 150 yards from a 7.5” 44 magnum revolver. Sierra 240 JHP going just over 1300fps at the muzzle.
I want expanding bullets that open in a controlled manor and provide and exit. I want it to work if it hits the shoulder or the lungs....well because stuff happens. I have been fortunate the past few years to not have to track any animals past a 100 yards.
I also want a wide velocity window from minimum to maximum of where the bullet works.
I don’t think any one brand provides it all with each caliber. I think there are some bullets from each line that shine.
this is the exit on a doe Lope at 150 yards from a 7.5” 44 magnum revolver. Sierra 240 JHP going just over 1300fps at the muzzle.
Brian in Montana
Well-known member
Lope hunting with a revolver? That's sort of cool. I don't believe I know anyone that's tried that.
HandgunHunter
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I haven’t hunted with a long gun in about 15 years....there are more of us that do this than what you think.
I hunt everything with handguns. There are a couple threads in other parts of this forum from this year.
Addicting
Well-known member
That is what my Mule deer looked like with a 142 ABLR.
From 2001-2015 between ADQP tags, nuisance permits, deer control hunts, and regular season I shot between 150-200 deer. I had to record the ADQP kills but the rest were not well kept.
I shot with everything from a 223 to a 45/70. The fastest most impressive kills were with Nosler Ballistic tips and Sierra Game King’s. Premium , harder bullets, worked fine but unless the shoulders were broken they resulted in a longer recovery. The most lethal calibers were a 25-06 with a 115 NBT or a 117 Game king and a 300 WSM with 150 NBTs. With proper shot placement fast expanding bullets at high velocity are the quickst killers. The SCDNR did a long term study that concluded the same. I’ll post it if I can find it.
I shot with everything from a 223 to a 45/70. The fastest most impressive kills were with Nosler Ballistic tips and Sierra Game King’s. Premium , harder bullets, worked fine but unless the shoulders were broken they resulted in a longer recovery. The most lethal calibers were a 25-06 with a 115 NBT or a 117 Game king and a 300 WSM with 150 NBTs. With proper shot placement fast expanding bullets at high velocity are the quickst killers. The SCDNR did a long term study that concluded the same. I’ll post it if I can find it.
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Brian, my first buck Antelope was taken with an open sighted, Smith 629, at about 110 yards. An embarrassingly small buck, which I badly misjudged at daybreak! I was so “pissed”, I shoulder mounted the “dink” anyway! I’m truly “snakebit” with “goats”......but that one was the worst! memtb
midwesthunter
Well-known member
I shoot a 375 Rum, waiting for a elk to break it in on LOL
midwesthunter
Well-known member
This year my son shot his buck and doe with a 120 grain sst out of his 270, I was surprised by the impact difference between the two deer. Both were within 20 yards distance wise, and impact speed around 2600 fps. Only thing I can think is the buck which was about 4.5 years old had more body mass and caused the bullet to expand faster? Buck dropped in its tracks and never moved, doe dropped and kicked and then jumped up and ran 20 yards before doing a somersault and expiring.
Buck was quartered away, you can see bullet entry, it was lodged in front of the opposite shoulder
Doe was broadside first pic is entrance second exit.
Buck was quartered away, you can see bullet entry, it was lodged in front of the opposite shoulder
Doe was broadside first pic is entrance second exit.
huronmtns
Well-known member
These are some great photos of the difference that can be had by the same gun at the same distance (if I am interpreting this correctly). The hydrostatic shock could be different between both animals because of the behavior of each prior to the shot. An example from the stress "Fight or Flight" hormone (Cortisol) levels drive blood capillary and vessel size. Increased cortisol levels shrink the capillary and vessel size thus speeding up the flow and reaction time to deal with the stress situation. Shrinking the vessels could change the elastic properties of the vessels and change the ability for the tissue to absorb the hydrostatic shock generated by the impact of the bullet.
ImBillT
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All the pictures really show is how much blood leaked between the rib cage and the hide. They aren’t really showing much of the actual damage. It’s plausible to assume that the buck bled more because he sustained more damage to lung tissue due to quartering away and really having a large portion of both lungs hit, while the doe was hit mostly in the front portions of the lungs. It’s also plausible that even if they bled similarly that the shoulders of the doe kept more of the blood in the chest cavity and allowed less of it to get between the hide and the meat. Without pictures of lungs, or big blown up pieces of meat, it’s really hard to tell that they bullets really performed any differently.
As far as the buck dropping instantly and the doe kicking, you said that the bullet in the buck lodged in front of the opposite shoulder. You can see that the doe was hit mid shoulder and it exited farther back behind the armpit of the opposite shoulder. My understanding has always been that the autonomic nervous plexus was slightly forward of the humerus. After looking at a few diagrams, I’m slightly less clear on exactly where it is, and there is more than one, but the brachial nervous plexus is probably the one if primary interest to hunters.(good thing I don’t shoot for it) I do not believe that you have to put the base of your bullet through it to put the lights out though. Some bullet fragments, or even damage from the temporary stretch cavity would probably do it. With the bullet stopping forward of the back shoulder on the back, my guess would be that is the reason for his seemingly instant death. What your doe did is what I tend to get with a double lung using Bergers. Instant drop, very short time frame before death.
As far as the buck dropping instantly and the doe kicking, you said that the bullet in the buck lodged in front of the opposite shoulder. You can see that the doe was hit mid shoulder and it exited farther back behind the armpit of the opposite shoulder. My understanding has always been that the autonomic nervous plexus was slightly forward of the humerus. After looking at a few diagrams, I’m slightly less clear on exactly where it is, and there is more than one, but the brachial nervous plexus is probably the one if primary interest to hunters.(good thing I don’t shoot for it) I do not believe that you have to put the base of your bullet through it to put the lights out though. Some bullet fragments, or even damage from the temporary stretch cavity would probably do it. With the bullet stopping forward of the back shoulder on the back, my guess would be that is the reason for his seemingly instant death. What your doe did is what I tend to get with a double lung using Bergers. Instant drop, very short time frame before death.
