Lightweight Rifle for recoil sensitive folks

[mfb99]

Like many folks here on the forum, I have been on a quest for the perfect deer rifle.

I set about by first laying out the "Engineering Requirement".

• Cartridge choice to be effective on Mule deer up to my range limit of 300 yards
• Flat shooting
• Low recoil
• Weight of 7 lbs with scope
• Small size
• Durable enough to not worry about dings and dents
• Moderately priced

My choice of rifles ended up being one of the big name compact rifles, synthetic stock, 18" barrel, in .243 caliber.

After mounting the scope and sling, I weighed the rifle and it came out just a bit over 7 lbs. Great.
It was for sure compact and I had no doubt about it being durable. I had read enough about the .243 caliber to know it would work out to 300 yards, would be flat shooting and everyone raved about how low the recoil was.

I was very excited that I had done it.

Now all that was left was to shoot the rifle in and get used to it.

I was very excited on my first trip to the range and set everything up for my first shots. I placed a full steam factory load into the chamber, placed the cross-hairs on the target and fired of a round. There was a deafening explosion out of the barrel and the gun jumped up and to the rear. Wow! I shook my head and quickly checked to make sure I did indeed have my earplugs in. Yep. I said to myself, OK, lets get ready this time and once again let of a full steam round. Ka-bloo-eee ! as fire ripped from the muzzle.

At this point I knew I was in trouble. Further rounds down range had the same effect, so I packed up and left, feeling crummy.

As I am an engineer by profession, I looked at this "problem" as solvable so I set in motion a corrective action plan.

First, I tried factory reduced recoil ammo. Yep, it did help, but the little beast still had a heck of a recoil and muzzle blast. I also faced the fact that this ammo was not lead free, which in much of California, that is a requirement.

Alright, time to go to hand loads. This did in fact start to tame the beast and I was shooting effectively. However, my loads were getting so low that I was not sure of the performance of the cartridge on deer at 300 yards. I am not a hand loading expert and I was getting uncomfortable with me trying to come up with a low recoil, lead free, 300 yard cartridge.

OK, new idea. I bought a muzzle brake from one of the big names and installed it on the barrel. It looked very cool, but added almost a half pound to the rifle. I also noticed that when I shouldered the rifle, the balance of the rifle was completely wrong.

Being out of time for deer season, I went ahead and hunted with this rifle. I hunted in very mountainous terrain, humping it up and down. My lightweight rifle was now not so light and I noticed.

I did not get a shot at a deer, but when I got home, I decided I would try to solve the balance problem.

I started to add some lead weight inside the stock at the rear. But, because the muzzle brake was so far out on the lever arm, the amount of lead I was adding was getting crazy.

Uhhhhhhhh, defeated I was.

My main take away from this experience is that for a recoil sensitive person, muzzle blast is more important of a factor than the felt recoil. To be effective, cartridges like this .243 must come out of the barrel at high velocity, thus a lot of powder must be burned. This becomes a problem with short barrels, like this guns 18".

As Randy N. says, sharing your failures is as important as the successes. I have decided to sell this gun, and for 2017 will be once again trying to meet my engineering requirement.

I have some ideas that I will share in later posts.

Cheers,

Mark

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I am relatively new to hunting (adult onset hunter) and am a novice when it comes to guns, but I'm curious about recoil sensitivity especially since I want to teach my little sister to hunt. I shoot a .264 win mag for big game and a 12 gauge for birds and even with 3 1/2 in. turkey loads I don't really notice the recoil, maybe this is because I never shoot bench without a lead sled?? and in the field I'm too excited to feel it? I'm not a particularly big guy I don't even break 155lbs, I guess what I'm trying to figure out is recoil a person by person thing or a shooting style or something else. I was thinking of starting out my sister with a 7mm-08 or a .243 and your post is making me wonder if simple caliber selection isn't enough.

 

[MThuntr]

Is lightweight necessary for your hunting style? Using a standard weight rifle or possibly a lighter factory rifle but not ultralight will help with recoil. Sometimes recoil is felt because the rifle doesn't fit you...maybe you need a youth model to fit you better?
Like you said it sounds like you are having a reaction to the muzzleblast...get a longer rifle barrel something in the 22" range may help plus you could squeeze 100-200fps out of a round. It will definitely help with those big fireball not just the blast
Consider a 6.5 caliber cartridge (6.5 creedmoor will be most available) with a muzzlebrake (the volume of noise will be pretty loud though)
Remember at the range your going to notice the recoil more than if you were hunting.

 

[406LIFE]

As recoil is a relative measurement even when you can put ft-lbs to it, I am wondering what you shot in .243 that was too much? Chuck Hawks has that recoil in single digits for a 7lb rifle. Again, since recoil is relative to whoever is shooting I wonder if you will be successful in your hunt for a new rifle if 9lbs of recoil is too much.

Out of curiousity, what is your exact setup? Name?

 

[1_pointer]

My main take away from this experience is that for a recoil sensitive person, muzzle blast is more important of a factor than the felt recoil. To be effective, cartridges like this .243 must come out of the barrel at high velocity, thus a lot of powder must be burned. This becomes a problem with short barrels, like this guns 18".


Mark

I have found blast and noise to be a much bigger hurdle for my two young boys than the physical recoil. One reason why their 243s will have 22" barrels on them. And if the Hearing Protection Act can get passed and suppressors become cheaper and easier to get they'll have one of them as well.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Go find a 20 or 22" barreled rifle in .243 or 6.5. Don't overthink the weight. I've never hunted with a scoped rifle that weighs under 7 pounds. I'm sure it would be nice, but it sure isn't necessary.

You are correct, it's the muzzle blast, not the felt recoil that can be very difficult in a situation like this.

Get the rifle, load some reduced loads. Learn to concentrate on the trigger press and learn to shoot right. Load some 85 grain TSX bullets over about IMR 4350, or something similar and hunt away.

 

[RunWilderness]

I am also a new hunter currently pondering my first centerfire rifle purchase with an eye toward low perceived recoil to allow for longer and more productive practice time.

I see lots of recoil calculators online. However, is there an equivalent metric for muzzle blast?

For example, comparing a Howa Alpine 20" to a base Howa 22" to a Weatherby 24" all in .308, is the blast going to be decreasing in a measurable manner? If I where to switch calipers and guns, is there a way to compare the difference?

 

[Bambistew]

Not sure if anyone chambers a 6.8 SPC in hunting rifle anymore, but I would think this could be a sweet, mild recoiling deer rifle. Although I'm not sure you can really get any more ideal for deer out to 300 yards than a 243. You could step down to a 22 cal of some sort. 223 or 22-250. The later has similar recoil to a 243.

There is no such thing as free lunch in a light rifle when considering recoil. Maybe consider bow hunting?

I can't wait to touch off my 20" barreled 375H&H, she'll be ready by Christmas.

 

[MThuntr]

I can't wait to touch off my 20" barreled 375H&H, she'll be ready by Christmas.

Ah the vernerable 375 ouch & ouch

 

[mfb99]

All,

Thanks for all the great and thoughtful replies.

Now that the cat is out of the bag, here is what I have planned for next year.

Grendel 6.5 cal in a 20-22" barrel gun, and still try to keep it right around 7 lbs with scope and sling.

I have already handled the Howa Miniaction model (but not in 6.5) and it felt almost ideal. However, and only in my opinion, the problem with the magazine dropping out so easily is a deal breaker. This happened to me just in handling the gun at the counter.

I am confident that by next year Howa will have this issue corrected so that gun will be one of my choices.

Likely too, as the 6.5 Grendel is rapidly gaining in popularity, more of the manufacturers will offer this caliber for 2017. It would be very nice to see a choice of several compact rifles to choose from.

If the Grendel turns out to be a dead end, then I will settle for maybe a bit heavier rifle in I think 7mm-08 with a 22" barrel. I would download a bit to lower recoil/blast. Because the 7mm-08 has more energy at lower velocity than the .243, I feel more comfortable with developing a lead free load for my needs.

I am committed to the light rifle for several reasons. My age, my body, hunting style (remote mountainous) and experience with lightweight hiking gear. There is an entire revolution that has occurred in the backpack world by using light gear. We used to get on the trail with a 40 + pack for a couple days trip. Now, you can do it just north of 15 lbs. The energy conservation is huge when you go lighter.

In my deer hunt this year, each day I was foraying down 1500 ft vertical, then coming back up 1500 ft vertical, or the reverse. My solo pack was about 15 lbs, much of it water, but also taking the gear to survive a night out without getting hypothermia. I think in terms of ounces of weight saved.

So, that said, a 7 lb rifle is a huge difference for me from a 8.5 lb rifle. That 1.5 lbs could be a jacket, food, gloves and hat, or more water.

I have to admit too, I am pretty darn interested in that 6.5 Grendel, how can you not like a cartridge named for a mythical monster!

Cheers,

Mark

 

[Magnum Sherpa]

I have a Kimber Mountain Ascent in chambered in .270. With the muzzle brake on, it has essentially zero felt recoil. Of the criteria that you laid out, I think the only one it does not meet would be "moderately priced." But that is all relative.

 

[mfb99]

Magnum Sherpa,

I just took a look at the Kimber Mountain Ascent on their website. It is a very nice rifle and for the features it has, the price is quite reasonable. I particularly like the built in muzzle brake. Being in the business of composite structures, when you use composite, it is expensive. However, there really is no other material out there that can give you the strength, stiffness and lightness of composites.

Maybe you can give me your take on having an "expensive" hunting rifle. I have some expensive guns, which by my nature I tend to treat differently than my less expensive guns. How I handle them, pack them, and even how I clean them. I know the Kimber will be pretty robust, but do you find that you baby the gun in anyway because of the cost?

Cheers,

Mark

 

[Biscuit Hunter]

Keep in mind that if you go with the Grendel your options for a lead-free bullet that will reliably expand out to 300 yards are very limited. Most likely only one-- the 100gr TTSX from Barnes, loaded to the max. A 22" or longer barrel will cost you ounces, but will gain you the velocity you need for the monolithic bullets.

 

[BucksnDucks]

Sage advice from the sage. The lighter rifle definitely adds to felt recoil.

 

[BucksnDucks]

oops. That previous reply was to mthunter above.
My experience with a light weight 7mm-08 with a short 20" barrel compared to my heavier 6.5 creedmoor Savage LRH. The Savage feels like a .22 from the bench. The light weight 7mm-08 is very comfortable to shoot but the recoil is "sharp" in comparison. The cartridges are fairly similar and the felt recoil seems to be due to the couple pounds of weight difference and barrel length.
With that all stated I'm very pleased with performance of the lightweight, which started as a rem 700 sps youth model. When my son out grew it I dropped the barreled action in a Bell and Carlson mountain stock, added Timney trigger, worked up a sweet load of 140 grain Accubonds. I'm considering a new barrel (22 inch) in the future but realistically the thing shoots just fine.
I'm wandering off track, 6.5 and 7mm-08 are worth checking out.

 

[Rancho Loco]

An 18" .243 might be a little mouthy, but muffs and plugs together do wonders off the bench.

 

[Magnum Sherpa]

Magnum Sherpa,

Maybe you can give me your take on having an "expensive" hunting rifle. I have some expensive guns, which by my nature I tend to treat differently than my less expensive guns. How I handle them, pack them, and even how I clean them. I know the Kimber will be pretty robust, but do you find that you baby the gun in anyway because of the cost?

Cheers,

Mark

I wouldn't say I baby it at all while hunting, but I do make sure to take proper care of it afterwards, especially if it gets wet. In that case, I am always sure to dry it and oil it at the end of each day. It is stainless, but stainless can rust as everyone knows (I had a stainless Weatherby that rusted a little too easily), so I am diligent about oiling after a wet day. Otherwise I hunt with it like any other rifle.

 

[Washington Hunter]

You should try a 270 Winchester. Get a rifle with a 22 inch barrel and shoot 130 grain Barnes TTSX bullets, with a faster burning powder, something in the range of IMR 4064.

Or a 25/06 would also be good, with even less recoil, using 100 grain bullets.

 

[HighDesertSage]

Have you tried a lead sled?

 

[plains2pines]

oops. That previous reply was to mthunter above.
My experience with a light weight 7mm-08 with a short 20" barrel compared to my heavier 6.5 creedmoor Savage LRH. The Savage feels like a .22 from the bench. The light weight 7mm-08 is very comfortable to shoot but the recoil is "sharp" in comparison. The cartridges are fairly similar and the felt recoil seems to be due to the couple pounds of weight difference and barrel length.
With that all stated I'm very pleased with performance of the lightweight, which started as a rem 700 sps youth model. When my son out grew it I dropped the barreled action in a Bell and Carlson mountain stock, added Timney trigger, worked up a sweet load of 140 grain Accubonds. I'm considering a new barrel (22 inch) in the future but realistically the thing shoots just fine.
I'm wandering off track, 6.5 and 7mm-08 are worth checking out.

how do you like that 6.5 bucksnducks? ive been eyeballing that. win .270 is a hard rifle to beat. I bougth my 10 year old son a stevens savage .243, started him with the smaller 80g loads and moved him up to the 100g. the nosler in 80 is plenty enough for any deer though! if holding gun tight to your shoulder it will make all the difference in the world with recoil, make sure you have a quality scope with plenty of eye relief though my .338 on the other hand.... that thing just isn't a fun gun to shoot for the fun of it!! I too was looking at the 7mm.08 for him as well.